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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/14/2005 2:57:09 PM EDT
I know that a full auto is againt the law. What I would like is to make my AK look a little more like the full autos. So here is my question, A) Is it legal to have the third hole in the receiver? B) Is there a template somewhere that shows where to drill this hole? What I would like to do is drill the hole and put a pin in it and hold the pin with an "e" clip. So any help would be great. Thanks. This is just an idea that I've been kicking around.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:59:49 PM EDT
Bad idea. Don't do it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:06:14 PM EDT
Not the best idea my friend.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:09:03 PM EDT
Illegal
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:25:34 PM EDT
I've never understood why someone would "want" to go to prison ...
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:45:31 PM EDT
Those who believe that this is illegal, please clarify my thinking.

What about having a fake pin makes a gun in violation?

Isn't it having auto "PARTS" that's illegal?

It may be a bad idea, but is it against the law? If so, what law?

Enquiring minds want to know...
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:48:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:50:33 PM EDT
you want to put a pin, that is unique to FAs, in your gun. Tell the BATFE how you were not trying to build an FA AK.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:03:13 PM EDT
That's good for a free ticket to the Fudgepack Hotel.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:06:44 PM EDT
if you want the look.. add the FA notch in the reciever,, mark it if you want.. but do NOT drill
a 3rd hole..
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:08:04 PM EDT
Bend over, grab your ankles and spell RUN three times. Thats the official theme song for anyone who has put a third hole in their AK without being a Class II maunfacturer.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:23:14 PM EDT
It is illegal to drill the hole for the auto sear.. Even if you put a pin in it and weld it permanetly in place it is still illegal.. Just don't do it..

That being said, you can cut the head of the pin, and a small peice of the pin off, and solder them to the outside of the receiver to give the illusion of having a third pin..


Mike formerly of ORF has aproval from the ATF for this modification.. Maybee he could be talked into posting more info on this..
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:26:50 PM EDT
The Reason ATF frowns upon having the 3rd hole in any AK receiver is that it makes your firearm "readily convertible" to a full auto weapon. You can and will go to federal prison for the this under the charge of constructive intent if you firearm should ever come under the eye of the alphabet boys.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:33:14 PM EDT
It's constructive intent.

But, it's your gun, and your ass, just do with it as you please.

Really, why? If it don't do anything why even have it there? The aveage Joe wouldn't know a selector from a sear from a third pin. And the ones who would know what to look for would want to open it up or fire it. If it's all about pictures, do what Coltshorty said and just lay it on there for some pics.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:37:51 PM EDT
See thats why I asked before I did it. I did not know that. Anyway I was just an idea. I would like a little more info on the "cut pin method" That might be ok. So where is the correct place on the receiver for this. I don't want to weld the cut pin in the wrong place, because I know there are guys right here that can tell what year an AK is but the damn rivets! (You guys always pick it right even in a crappy pic. I don't know how) Anyway I want it to look right. Thanks alot guys.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:45:18 PM EDT
WHY???
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:55:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 5:14:36 PM EDT by clange]

Isn't it having auto "PARTS" that's illegal?

Its the other way around. You can buy/own all the full auto parts you want, you just cant modify an AK receiver.


Anyway I want it to look right. Thanks alot guys.

Why, to get attention? Hell you could paint a small silver circle in the right spot so it looks like a pin, but dont ever post a pic online or you'll get a knock on the door from a bunch of guys with guns.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:09:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 5:09:50 PM EDT by Darkest2000]
airsoft baby, have as many holes as you want and no one would care.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:14:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Apache659:
I've never understood why someone would "want" to go to prison ...


I figure if a guy wants to go to prison he is teh ghey?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:35:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CSM:
you want to put a pin, that is unique to FAs, in your gun. Tell the BATFE how you were not trying to build an FA AK.



Come on Now..............The ATF guys are a reasonable bunch. They like a good laugh.

<­BR>



Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:57:18 PM EDT
very bad idea, forget a third pin look, but if you needed to know you needed to ask
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:07:10 PM EDT
ok so maybe it was a bad idea but I did ask before I did it so to some degree I'm not a total BONEHEAD.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:14:56 PM EDT
Do your homework here:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

here:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/

and then, lastly, here:

http://www.aa-ok.com/AK_Tech/aktechinfo.htm

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:29:28 PM EDT
All of this third hole stuff has got me thinking. Does it make any difference where the third hole is? If you were to , hypothetically of course, make a hole that was too far forward or rearward than where the actual 3rd hole should be, would that still be considered a FA? If the hole was in a location that even if you put the FA sear & stuff in, it would be too far away from the FCG to actually work, would that still be illegal? It wouldnt be "readily convertible" at all if it was way out of spec. Not that I want to do this by the way. I like my recievers just fine with 2 holes.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:06:20 PM EDT
My vote would be to leave the idea of a third hole alone entirely.

Why? Because if you look all badass-gofast in the wrong company, you may put yourself in for some undue stress. Yup, even the appearance of a third pin or a hole in the wrong spot might quickly gain you interviews with numerous members of our law enforcement community who I assure you are great fellows and fine gentlemen when they're not giving you a goings-over with the rubber hose because they sure don't know where that hole goes either.

Leave that little bastard alone man.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:27:30 PM EDT
Lock this thread. We dont need people to attempt anything said here.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:33:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:38:27 PM EDT by ru4freedom]
Sounds like a Free pass to the BIG house..., and unlimited free rides up the hersey hiway..., butt chances are you won't be the driver!!!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:38:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By imacbo:
ok so maybe it was a bad idea but I did ask before I did it so to some degree I'm not a total BONEHEAD.



Good on you for asking first, and taking the advice given you.
Many folks ask questions, and then get mad when they don't hear what they want.
No third hole!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:27:03 PM EDT



That being said, you can cut the head of the pin, and a small peice of the pin off, and solder them to the outside of the receiver to give the illusion of having a third pin..


Mike formerly of ORF has aproval from the ATF for this modification.. Maybee he could be talked into posting more info on this..



Honestly, I think this is a bad idea as well. While it might be perfectly legal, it might create enough confusion to cause more trouble then its worth.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:30:38 PM EDT
Why would you want to? I know that "looking real" to some people is really important,
but why would you want to expose yourself to the scrutiny of the BATFE for trying to make it look like something it isnt. It adds no value to the gun, or estethic quality.

It could be the last thing that you ever do to a firearm.

If you really want to do it, go for it, but you had better be ready for the chain of events that you put in to motion. If you get caught, oh well...enjoy it while it lasts!!
Look for thr thread on the guy that recently purchased the Norinco gun with the third hole in it...

KyARGuy

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoploholic:
The Reason ATF frowns upon having the 3rd hole in any AK receiver is that it makes your firearm "readily convertible" to a full auto weapon. You can and will go to federal prison for the this under the charge of constructive intent if you firearm should ever come under the eye of the alphabet boys.



+1000
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:31:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 10:31:35 PM EDT by Witch_Doctor]
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:48:00 PM EDT
all this talk of 3 holes is kind of wierd........."dont do it".
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:57:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patm41:
if you want the look.. add the FA notch in the reciever,, mark it if you want.. but do NOT drill
a 3rd hole..



Good sensable advice.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:13:54 AM EDT
The premise of your original question is actually incorrect.
You stated "I know full-auto is illegal". It is not.
A registered, transferable full-auto AK is perfectly legal in many states.
You can not only get the look, but the whole deal legally.
If you're really that into it, you need the full-auto AK.
You won't regret it. A full-auto mag dump cures many ills.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:53:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 7:10:40 AM EDT by jimtash9]
And it's still amazing how all the sheeple fall in-line. If a lot of your attitudes would reflect the disgust at not being able to legally build a full auto AK and wanting to do something about it instead of the outright fear of what the big bad 'ol government will do, we might just get some of these crap bans repealed. But instead we're more concerned about being "good little gun owners" and having that US made $40.00 hammer in there because if we don't, the BATFE will look down upon us because we're not following the law and ban more. But nevermind that now too because our number one source of AK's will be no more after January BECAUSE of the BATFE. So tell me, following the law keep getting us where again? Instead of the outrage and contempt at our rights eroding before our eyes, the outright display of fear keeps settling in once again even though we are law abiding citizens and do nothing to provoke these insane laws. When's enough going to be enough?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:05:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:09:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krinkfreak:
Okay, enough discussion about the third hole. If you want to drill it, get your Class II license and SOT first.


As I said before, I want the McClure-Volkmer Act overturned just as much as the next guy....but you know which group will give you the most resistance ?? Most probably the group of individuals that currently own "Registered Transferable Machine Guns." Do you think someone who has invested $8,000 to $10,000 is going to stand by and watch his investment drop to $600 ??? I remember "select-fire" Colt AR-15s in Shotgun News for roughly $600 back in early 1986. $600 plus a $200 Tax Stamp and you had a legal select fire weapon........those days are long gone.

I don't think we will ever see the NFA Registry open again for new machine guns.




But what you don't factor in is that non-FA owners probably outnumber registered FA owners 20-1. Those numbers could make a big difference when it comes down to it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:16:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

Originally Posted By krinkfreak:
Okay, enough discussion about the third hole. If you want to drill it, get your Class II license and SOT first.


As I said before, I want the McClure-Volkmer Act overturned just as much as the next guy....but you know which group will give you the most resistance ?? Most probably the group of individuals that currently own "Registered Transferable Machine Guns." Do you think someone who has invested $8,000 to $10,000 is going to stand by and watch his investment drop to $600 ??? I remember "select-fire" Colt AR-15s in Shotgun News for roughly $600 back in early 1986. $600 plus a $200 Tax Stamp and you had a legal select fire weapon........those days are long gone.

I don't think we will ever see the NFA Registry open again for new machine guns.




But what you don't factor in is that non-FA owners probably outnumber registered FA owners 20-1. Those numbers could make a big difference when it comes down to it.



Point is my man up there wasn't volunteering to be a martyr for the cause.. Brother-man wants his gun to look good. Unless he does in fact want to spend the next few years of his life in federal hell, the advice above was well within the bounds of good taste.

If you're interested in someone making the jump, YOU do it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:32:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 7:36:39 AM EDT by jimtash9]
Man I'm not talking about building a full auto illegally. I'm talking about what it's going to take for all of us as a group to stop trying to please that BATFE once and for all and fight to get back out rights including full autos. And I'm sorry, but obeying insane parts counts and being fearfull sheeple isn't going to do it. The ban on barrels proves that and if we let it continue, you and I both know what the eventual outcome will be. The sooner we figure this out or gasp, even openly talk about it, the better off we'll be.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:49:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 7:55:02 AM EDT by krinkfreak]
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:48:41 PM EDT
Like I said before I did not know tht it was againt the law thats why I asked before I did drill the hole. Yes I would like to make my AK look like the real thing but it sounds like way too much trouble. And trust me on the fact I don't want to get my sh** packed by anyone so me and jail would not get along real well. Thanks for all the advice. Me and my ass both thank you
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:01:24 PM EDT
I've seen Museum quality AK builds with a simulated third hole and selector cuts,it does look cool.You can make it "appear"as realistic as you dare without breaking the cardinal rule.I did the same thing with a Portuguese G3,the ATF declares any HK type of weapon,with the pivot hole,a MG.I had the builder,clip and pin the lower to make it look authentic.
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