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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/15/2005 8:31:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 3:41:29 AM EDT by BlackScot]
Did the AR15 thing for a couple of years, and then about a year ago "came to the Dark Side" under the EVIL influence of our very own arfcom AK-forum moderator Templar. Let me use his Arsenal SA M-7 S at a local match, with which I did much better -- and had alot more fun -- than I ever did with my AR. Got him at Degoffs to sell me one just like it within the next few days and have been shooting it ever since. (Sold off the AR within about a month or so.) See:

SA M-7 S

A few things looking up at work recently prompted me to get myself some kind of little reward. Was thinking of getting another AR, but Templar soon talked me out of such nonesense. "...the gun you swore you never buy another one of." and "...just can't picture you with one."

So instead, I have on-the-way Arsenal's underfolding SAS M-7. Basically the same as my current rifle other than the stock. Also there's no muzzle brake, but the barrel is threaded if I want to add one or a flash hider. See:

SAS M-7 underfolder

Got to handle one in the shop, plus spent the weekend looking at all kinds of cool stuff on the internet. Even took the stock off my current rifle to fool around with at home. Finally caved and called Templar back this morning. I am but of mortal flesh...which is weak.

Should be in within a couple days, so can have it wiped down and ready for the range maybe Friday afternoon. Can't wait to see how it compares to the full-stock version. Really like the idea of being able to pack it down into a very handy package.

Shall report back with post-range observations.---->see below!!!

P.S. Any ideas on comp/flash-hider selection, or on transport mode would be welcomed.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:17:48 AM EDT
You'll love it.....Congrats..
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:33:35 AM EDT
BlackScot,
I am also getting my first underfolder. A Vector Underfolder that I traded a Bushmaster AR carbine for. I have a Romanian SAR and have officially gone to the "Dark Side"hing
Ron
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:42:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:43:06 AM EDT by TheRedHorseman]
underfolders are fun, I have an assault pack that I can carry my MAK90 UF in without anyone noticing. hows that for a CCW piece? compact AKs are just evil
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:49:01 AM EDT
Get a flash hider and a cobra/ or POSP scope. Compact AKs rock !

Ben
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 2:52:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
I have an assault pack that I can carry my MAK90 UF in without anyone noticing. hows that for a CCW piece?



My thoughts exactly.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 3:31:02 AM EDT
Here are the contenders. One-year-old SA M-7 S on the left and new SAS M-7 on the right.



One obvious difference is the comp on the SA. I didn't notice much effect of the comp in shooting the two, other than it giving a little higher pitch report to the SA. Both rifles have about equal recoil. It's a relatively low-pressure caliber, which I know at-least in handguns can largely negate the effects of a comp (don't see many on .45's but usually do on .38 Supers).



Here's the longitudinal profile of the two buttstocks. The folding stock SAS is a little shorter on average, but the difference in angle puts the toe of the butt almost to the same lenthwise position. The toe also has a lower vertical position. So, if you get a proper shoulder-pocket mount, the trigger reach ends up about the same but the sight line is a little higher, which for me is an improvement having a long face and neck (I had to haunch a little using the fixed stock SA).



Here's the transverse profile of the butt. Notice the toe on the folder SAS is a lot wider than on the fixed SA, which to me is lot MORE comfortable in the shoulder pocket. I was worried the slinky folder would dig in badly, but not so at all.



Finally, the biggest difference is in overall compactness and portability. I'm really looking forward to getting the folder kitted-out with a small and discrete case.

Link Posted: 8/23/2005 4:38:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:10:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:20:36 PM EDT
Very nice, I'm hankering for an SLR however finding one is proving to be a pain...

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:48:19 PM EDT
Damn! I want one of those SAS M-7's.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 3:02:32 AM EDT
A couple of developments. A closer comparison showed there is some effect from the comp on the muzzel of the SA, which stays flatter while the SAS has more lift. The recoil of the SA isn't really reduced though but just driven more straight back and punchy, while the SAS has more of a roll.

More significantly, the butt-mount configuration got a significant shaking out at last Sunday's match (see Cavalier IDPA Rifle Side Match). Putting the toe of the butt high in the shoulder pocket (which I've read from more than one authority as THE correct mount) just didn't hold up to the rough-n-tumble of fast-paced action competitition. Starting out this way the butt slipped around a lot until it got down to having most of the bearing surface seated into the shoulder. A little post-mortem analysis showed this puts the trigger reach of the SAS about an inch less than the SA. More importantly for me though, it drops the sight line of the SAS a good 1-2 inches lower than the SA. So to get the SAS into a fully stable mount, I have to really haunch to line-up the sights. This might be fine for many or most shooters, but I know from an earlier experience with my shotgun that I need a fairly high sight line to get a good stable mount.

One of the greatest benefits of action competition is in acid-testing the ideas one gets during practice and dry firing.
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