...sorry...but I have had enough!......

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ...sorry...but I have had enough!......

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:08:22 AM EDT

....they want to act like savages...I say we treat them like savages.... Its time to grab them by the balls, and the "Hearts and Minds" will follow!

Soldiers' bodies savaged
Iraqi teens swarm 2 GIs left for dead

By Mariam Fam
The Associated Press
November 24, 2003

MOSUL, Iraq - Iraqi teenagers dragged two bloodied U.S. soldiers from a wrecked vehicle and pummeled them with concrete blocks Sunday, witnesses said, describing the killings as a burst of savagery in a city once safe for Americans.

Another soldier was killed by a bomb, and a U.S.-allied police chief was assassinated.

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The U.S.-led coalition also said it grounded commercial flights after the military confirmed that a missile struck a DHL cargo plane that landed Saturday at Baghdad International Airport with its wing aflame.

Nevertheless, American officers insisted they were making progress in bringing stability to Iraq, and the U.S.-appointed Governing Council named an ambassador to Washington - an Iraqi-American woman who spent the past decade lobbying U.S. lawmakers to promote democracy in her homeland.

Witnesses to the Mosul attack said gunmen shot two soldiers driving through the city center, sending their civilian vehicle crashing into a wall. The 101st Airborne Division said the soldiers were driving to another garrison.

About a dozen swarming teenagers dragged the soldiers out of the wreckage and beat them with concrete blocks, the witnesses said.

"They lifted a block and hit them with it on the face," said Younis Mahmoud, 19.

It was unknown whether the soldiers were alive or dead when pulled from the wreckage.

Initial reports said the soldiers' throats were cut. But another witness, teenager Bahaa Jassim, said the wounds appeared to have come from bullets.

Some people looted the vehicle of weapons, CDs and a backpack, Jassim said.

"They remained there for over an hour without the Americans knowing anything about it," he said. "I went and told other troops."

Television footage showed the soldiers' bodies splayed on the ground as U.S. troops secured the area. One victim's foot appeared to have been severed.

The frenzy recalled the October 1993 scene in Somalia, when locals dragged through the streets the bodies of U.S. servicemen killed in fighting with warlords.

In Baqouba, just north of Baghdad, insurgents detonated a roadside bomb as a 4th Infantry Division convoy passed, killing one soldier and wounding two others, the military said.

In Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt confirmed the Mosul deaths but refused to provide details.

"We're not going to get ghoulish about it," he said.

The savagery of the attack was unusual for Mosul, once touted as a success story in sharp contrast to the anti-American violence seen in Sunni Muslim areas north and west of Baghdad.

In recent weeks, however, attacks against U.S. troops have increased in Mosul, raising concerns the insurgency is spreading.

Simultaneously, attacks have accelerated against Iraqis considered to be supporting Americans - such as policemen and politicians working for the interim Iraqi administration.

On Sunday, gunmen killed the Iraqi police chief of Latifiyah, 20 miles south of Baghdad, and his bodyguard and driver, American and Iraqi officials said. No further details were released.

In Samara, about 75 miles north of Baghdad, Iraqi police said six U.S. Apache helicopter gunships blasted marshland after four rocket-propelled grenades were fired at the American military garrison at the city's northern end. One Iraqi passer-by was killed in the air attack, police said.

In Kirkuk, 150 miles north of Baghdad, a bomb exploded at an oil compound, injuring three American civilian contractors from the U.S. firm Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. The three suffered facial cuts from flying glass, U.S. Lt. Col. Matt Croke said.

...so much for Mr. Nice guy...time to start plaing their game!

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:12:17 AM EDT

[#1]

JC,

That country is far from being civilized....and most countries in the Middle East are not ready to be civilized.

This one is a tough one to acknowledge, and brings back memories of CNN coverage of our troops being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

KF

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:15:28 AM EDT

[#2]

Most of the ME is populated by barbarians.

Time to depopulate.

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:23:57 AM EDT

[#3]

God Bless our troops and especially those guys and thier families.

Shawn

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:36:41 AM EDT

[#4]

I have never been over there in the big sand box. But I feel that in the end nothing is going to change. We have defeated there standing army but don't see how we will defeat there hatred for the WEST. That we will never be able to do. Don't matter how much you give them or how big of a house you build, how well you feed there familys. They are still going to hate the WEST. Im sure there are educated Iraqes that see the bigger picture but for the general population, they are not. They are taught to hate the West, except when we pay them for there oil. WD

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:36:50 AM EDT

[#5]

If I heard this right, this is in the area controlled by the 101st, which was praised by the liberals for basically given money, much of which was liberated from Saddam, to the locals for schools etc. The rumor is the money for payments have dried up so the peasants are pissed.

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:41:20 AM EDT

[#6]

Yeah, and my best friend is getting shipped out to that shit hole. They moved his deployment date up by two weeks.

His asshole unit commander told him that his job is to drive trucks, not fight, and if he is caught with a weapon he would have my buddy cout-marshalled. Then he issues him (a 5 ton truck driver) a full size M-16 with an M-203.

He has a baby due in January, but is going without complaint. I just hope he gets to pop a few of these bastards. I would gladly go over with him to fight by his side.

Its time to start carpet bombing of major cities again. It was all the rage 60 years ago, lets bring the fad back.

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:45:07 AM EDT

[#7]

The solution applied 6 Aug 1945 was MOST effective!

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:55:38 AM EDT

[#8]

I'm a firm believer in the "Carpet Bombing" or "Saturation Bombing" of the past. I don't care one bit about the civilian population in time of war. I don't care about winning the admiration of the conquered people. I prefer the respect of a country bombed into the stone age. All-out bombing campaigns should be the way of the future.

"Rebuilding".......nahh.....frick you....die like the savages you are.....What? No where to live? No way to get out of the elements? Good...just another way for your nation to die off through attrition. Works for me because I won't have to worry about you, your family, or your people for another 50 years....

Teddy Roosevelt said it best....."Walk quietly, but carry a big stick...."

KF

Posted: 11/24/2003 6:02:36 AM EDT

[#9]

it's not to late for moabs.

that 'hearts and minds' didn't work in 'nam and it won't work today. remember 'pacification'? bah!

fight to win and let them fear us! i could care less about their hearts and minds.

kill them and kill them in numbers they will never forget.

it worked on the germans and it worked on the japanese.

Posted: 11/24/2003 6:13:49 AM EDT

[#10]

Here's a good link that describes the whole "Total War Doctrine" that we seem to have abandoned of late:

www.therazor.org/Summer02/hamasassass.htm

I understand that civilian casualties suck, but at the same time, they've got to be expected. This is a war, not a damned ice-cream social...

Posted: 11/24/2003 6:20:47 AM EDT

[#11]

I like the Israeli solution.... After the suspect is caught/killed, his family and their home is taken care of as well. Russia spent a long time in a shithole called Afghanastan...its time to finish both of these off!

BTW...wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Russians are suppling them with weapons! Did you see the story on how one of our tanks was taken out by a "mystery" bullet that left a hole no bigger than a pencil?

Posted: 11/24/2003 6:34:29 AM EDT

[#12]

The russians certainly had/have their dirty little mitts in Iraq; there is a reason the French, Russians etc were opposed to attacking Iraq, they were selling them crap; night vision, ordinance etc. I believe that some russian military officers met went to Iraq as advisors and basically told them that they could slow us down, inflict casualties etc and they were surprised when (yet again) the russian military "experts" were wrong.

Posted: 11/24/2003 7:32:02 AM EDT

[#13]

Aimless,

I believe that Russia is using Iraq as a testing grounds for new weapons. Didn't trust them before, I don't trust them now.

Posted: 11/24/2003 7:39:16 AM EDT

[#14]

As long as the Iraqis don't fear us then these acts of aggression will not stop. They know that US troops have to follow certain guidelines of behavior and Iraqis are pretty much free to act as they really are, uncivilized barbarians. Unfortunately, we should act more like Saddam and line a bunch of them against a wall and shoot them as an example.

Posted: 11/24/2003 8:29:36 AM EDT

[#15]

Ever notice how the Russian weapons are never a match for the American soldier. They try this time and time again, and we win.

American troops have slain the big Bear so many times the meat should be rotten by now.

Posted: 11/24/2003 9:15:16 AM EDT

[#16]

I believe that Russia is using Iraq as a testing grounds for new weapons.

russia has NO new weapons. and the iraqi's were sold second and third gen crap, by and large.

as far as a 'pencil sized' (5.45?) bullet taking out a tank...huh????? i hadn't heard that one.

an ober is correct. the g.i. has beat com-bloc steel in many cases.

Posted: 11/24/2003 10:13:33 AM EDT

[#17]

I STILL say we need real world testing of the NEUTRON bomb...This looks like a good place!!!

Posted: 11/24/2003 10:33:50 AM EDT

[#18]

Ober,
God Bless your buddy headed to the sandbox, his wife and unborn child. It tears me up to think that these brave men are fighting with their hands tied, playing by rules they the other side does not honor.

Just as you said you would like to ride with him to help protect him, I would like to be a few hundred yards off in a sniper hide watching over him and othe US soldiers, occasionally popping one of the bad guys from afar.

Posted: 11/24/2003 10:33:56 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
as far as a 'pencil sized' (5.45?) bullet taking out a tank...huh????? i hadn't heard that one.

I can't remember the show I was watching...may have been on FoxNews, anyway the slant of the story was it was some "mystery round", like a DU round or something. There was an explosion on the outside, and the tank itself only had a pencil sized round thru it. Whoever/whatever did the shooting knew the exact spot to hit it. It wasn't a luck shot.

Posted: 11/24/2003 11:57:35 AM EDT

[#20]

This is what I'm talking about...They did it to us with the World Trade Center....."You want it?? You get it !!"

Photo shows Dresden air raid victims being cremated 500 at a time on the Altmark square, Feb 25, 1945 (copyright photo from Apocalypse 1945: the Destruction of Dresden)

Posted: 11/24/2003 12:23:01 PM EDT

[#21]

Krink, bad historical example, but great pictures, and point well made.

Thats is exactly what I am talking about. Oh yeah, we need lots of good film footage. (After the G.i.s have taken home al the spoils of war)

Posted: 11/24/2003 12:27:12 PM EDT

[#22]

Ober,

Apologies. Nothing personal.

"Dead Terrorists tell no tales"

KF

Posted: 11/24/2003 12:55:17 PM EDT

[#23]

No appology nessesary, most people just don't know the whole story behind that raid.

Your point was well made though, and again, I agree. (Although with modern weapons I think we could do much better

Posted: 11/24/2003 1:38:18 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I STILL say we need real world testing of the NEUTRON bomb...This looks like a good place!!!

Saves historical sites as a theme park for future generations. And the fallout path from Baghdad can visit Tehran and Kabul if we get the weather right :)

Posted: 11/24/2003 1:48:01 PM EDT

[#25]

Wouldn't it be fun to be in the tail of a C-130 and push out a 15,000 daisy picker.......and just stand there and watch what it does to a city or small town.................

Posted: 11/24/2003 3:43:07 PM EDT

[#26]

Campy,

There is a new Russian tank killer round that has killed a few of our tanks in Iraq. Per my cousin that is in logistics and her husband that is a tanker in the cav, it is quite devestating and very effective vs. our latest armor config.

Good news is the Iraqs cant shoot well and they dont/didnt appear to have many.

KF,

I agree. You cant win the hearts and mind of folks that have neither. I was thinking a revisitation of Dresden tactics would be nice but dont want to lose all that cheap gas.

Neutron would be a viable solution, but frankly we need to get ALL of the middle east not just Iraq. Then we set up our own gas stations. And I get a supercharger for my GMC gas guzzling super monster truck - WOHO!

Posted: 11/24/2003 4:22:53 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Wouldn't it be fun to be in the tail of a C-130 and push out a 15,000 daisy picker.......and just stand there and watch what it does to a city or small town.................

Push out???? No way....I'm riding it down baby!!!

Posted: 11/24/2003 6:04:51 PM EDT

[#28]

When the going gets tough, the tough commit genocide. Go get em, boys.

Posted: 11/24/2003 7:02:24 PM EDT

[#29]

Well, sorry guys, but I'm gonna have to be the opposing voice once again.

We invade there country, they don't like it, so we should blow them all to hell?

Interesting concept.

Sure most of them hate us, but they also don't know what the hell we are!

Like I've said many times, and I know some of you may roll your eyes, but these people need some form of education before they are going to be able to differentiate between a liberator and a foreign invader and religious enemy.

Until they have some other source of knowledge besides what there book and religious leaders tell them they are never going to know anything besides that.

Therefor they will be fundamentalists by default, and some might say by fault of where they happen to have been born.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ...sorry...but I have had enough!......

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