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Posted: 4/25/2003 2:54:18 PM EDT
guys is wolf 5.45 as close as i can get to the russian combat round.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 3:22:54 PM EDT

There's a guy on one of the auction sites selling 7N6 @ $75 for a 30 round bundle...

I bought some of the same stuff for $5.00 a bundle in '99. Wish I could find that dealer again...
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 6:26:04 PM EDT
Wolf and Barnaul are the same.  Most people prefer the Barnaul over the Wolf, but it is only a personal preference and not a difference in performance.

The 70 grain Uly. is a completely different round.
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 7:43:16 PM EDT
The Wolf is basically Tula Manufactured while Banual is Banual mfr.  WHile Wolf advertise the ammo as 60 grain FMJ and Banual is 59 grain FMJ! the position of the air pocket is in front center of the bullet while the Banual ahs it on the back!

My particular AK74 likes the Banual better than the wolf.. at 100 yds we talking 2 to 3" group while the Wolf would open to 4".

One of my freind's rifle likes the WOlf better ! So! I guess its a little differnce !

The Ulynovsk is a completely differnt ammo, the POI is way different maybe because of the heavier 70 grain bullet!

Link Posted: 4/26/2003 8:33:15 PM EDT
does the wolf tumble inside the target like the 7n6?
Link Posted: 4/27/2003 2:45:51 AM EDT
They both tumble quickly, but not quite as much as the 7N6 due to the lack of the "kicker" that slides forward on impact.
Link Posted: 4/27/2003 5:42:26 AM EDT
ober, which would you use as a combat round the wolf?
Link Posted: 4/27/2003 6:05:24 AM EDT
IM on the way.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:15:52 PM EDT
both wolf and Banual will thumble but the position of the airpocket is differnt from wolf and Banual!

Unfortantely, both do not pocess harderened steel penetrator thus it does not have very good penetration power like the military 7N6 or the newer 7N10! Of course the 7n22 is the best!

They are close but defeintly not close enough!

FOr combat, probably the Banual ! it functions just like the wolf, it is a little more accurate and defeintly cleaner!

Link Posted: 4/30/2003 3:56:38 PM EDT
We will be finnishing the 7.62 X 39 testing tomorrow.  The first round of 5.45 testing has been bumped up to tomorrow due to popular demand.

This will only be for accuracy at this point, but I have several mediums to shoot through to test for tumbling in a later set of tests.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 11:46:16 PM EDT
sweet thanks Ober,  could you guys use the "russian elcan" tommorow and take some pics of you guys at the range too!!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 3:42:07 PM EDT
Oberschutze, will you be posting the 5.45 test results here when you get them? I am very interested in seeing how it compares to 5.56, specifically to M193 type ammo. I have wanted to try this myself but the whole idea of mixing up the ballistic gellatin seems to be a heck of a lot of work.
Thanks for doing this research, I for one definitely appreciate it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 3:51:21 PM EDT
RS39 and I will post as soon as we go through the results.  We have a lot of 7.62 x 39 results to look at before we look at our first round of 5.45.

We will not be doing gellatin as much more scientific gel tests have already be published. Besides, like you said, it is very hard to mix correctly. I am not into "lab tests" anyway.  I want to see what the round will do in real world enviroments. We will be testing more along the lines of common barriers, things that the average person would run into from day to day.

The first two rounds will only be for accuracy though.

After shooting since 10:00am this morning until 4:15pm, I just can not remember which 5,45 shot best.

I will post in the genreal AK forum for all to see and discuss.

There are many different tests planned.  Just give us some time as we work through schedules to get it done.
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 6:21:10 PM EDT
Can we do the gelatin tests on Turks, Serbians and "May Day" protestors?
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 6:37:23 AM EDT
Sounds like a plan to me.   LMAO
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 6:44:32 AM EDT
ober where you from bro?
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 11:32:06 AM EDT
I'm from Ohio but have Austrian citizenship through birth/parents. I served in the Austrian armed forces in Yugoslavia for a while.  

The joke here is that Themao is a Slavic "untermenchen" that we Austrians do not like. We share a dislike of certain groups in the Balkin area.  I'm trying to keep it civil, but it is more of a joke between us.  As historical enemies, and having shot some of his "kin folk" surprisingly we get along quite well. So well in fact that I have asked him to be a target stand for me at bulletfest this year.  

Link Posted: 5/2/2003 11:55:22 AM EDT
lol how long before we get info on 5.45 range test?
did you guys get photos?
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 12:05:32 PM EDT
We shot over 20 types of 7.62x39 and 5.45 ammo in 5 shot groups by each of us. We have a lot of data to compile and compare against our first round to make sure we have nothing too weird and it is actually valid.
Until next week, I'll throw out one teaser; RWS 5.45 only costs more money to feed your AK.
If you get bored in the meantime, ask Mao about Prince Lazur in 1389...
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 2:17:18 PM EDT

Steel core (7N6 type), Barnaul lead core, Wolf/TCW lead core, Ulyanovsk lead core (tracer jacket) and finally, Barnaul soft point

(pics courtesy of Devil Dog)

Barnual and Wolf use the exact same projectile.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 3:54:47 PM EDT
Heavy Metal, thanks for posting the picture.  I came here to post the very same picture right now. You beat me to it.

Its one of the best pictures I've seen.  It should be a good visual.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:10:25 AM EDT
what is rws 5.45?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:48:18 AM EDT
1179, I didn't see your post about pictures until after we shot.  We were out there for over 5 hours, by time we got to the first round of 5.45 testing, honestly I don't remember what shot well.

RWS is a German brand of ammo.  It is very high quality ammo with a price to boot in most cases.

I'll have to look at the targets today.  I know with one type of 5.45 I was able to shoot a quarter size group with the PO 3.5X.

One thing I noticed was how fast I was able to pick up on the PO scope.  After shooting with the PSOP (which was so completly different) for over 4 hours, I was able to just pick up the PO and shoot better after only a minute of looking through it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:21:18 PM EDT
sweet, thanks
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:28:22 AM EDT
well guys i tried to find some barnal fmj last night on the net and i could not find any in stock,
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