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Posted: 5/8/2004 1:48:36 PM EST
Aspects of budget, reliabity, magazines, and accessories are important concerns. Seems to me that the Arsenal AK would be the better buy but Im just a FNG?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:03:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 2:03:40 PM EST by Andreuha]
FNG

AR is better deal. Better accuracy, mag availability, lighter, much more accessorizable. I think the only thing the AK (.223 only) has over it is reliability, and then, that's a non-issue if you can take care of it properly.

Or you can just get both!
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:12:40 PM EST
I'll have to agree with Andreuha...The AR..Imo
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:45:05 PM EST
5.45x39.5 AK-74 over them both...I can't tell you why, you would just have to shoot one..

But if your firm in your choice, I would call the AR because of the mags for the AK being scarce.. If they were cheep I would go with the AK..
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:12:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:24:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 4:57:27 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
The AR, it's simply a more effective platform due to superior ergonomics. The reliablity is a non-issue. The AR is plenty reliable with some very minimal maintainence. Not to mention the Arsenal AK is milled and the M4gery beats the snot out of it for weight.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:22:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By coltshorty14:
5.45x39.5 AK-74 over them both...I can't tell you why, you would just have to shoot one..



I was thinking the same thing
But the post was about .223. Bleh, who needs an AK in .223?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:31:01 PM EST
I have an SAR-3 that is fairly light, reliable and shoots 2moa all day long. I like it just fine but my M-4gery is just so much more erg.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:38:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 6:39:09 PM EST by Andreuha]

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I have an SAR-3 that is fairly light, reliable and shoots 2moa all day long. I like it just fine but my M-4gery is just so much more erg.


Yep. Now if only there was a 5.45x39 AR
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:40:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I have an SAR-3 that is fairly light, reliable and shoots 2moa all day long. I like it just fine but my M-4gery is just so much more erg.


Yep. Now if only there was a 5.45x39 AR



There is....the Alexander Arms Genghis! Suprise!
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 4:00:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2004 4:01:58 AM EST by Pave]
"Use your standard 223 Remington AR15 magazines." ..... hmmmmmm seems to me 20's or 10 rnd blocked 20's might work, but 30's would have to be a trick.....

www.competitionshootingsports.com/catalogue/category2/category66/product794
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 5:41:59 AM EST
My understanding is that a USGI thirty will properly feed a max load of around 25 rounds.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:01:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2004 6:07:02 AM EST by Pave]
Well, I remembered I had a few boxes in the car (am at work).....I borrowed a few current issue 30s (adventureline, black follower) and tried:

I could "Stuff" 28 in one mag and 29 in the other, but when stripping them out by hand I had to tap the mag (recoil sim) on a table edge to free up the next 3-4 rounds, but it wasn't reliable. At 20 and below, both mags functioned as if 5.56 was loaded.

I'll be darned.

Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:07:32 AM EST
a pseudo range......
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:34:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 5:39:40 AM EST by SouthernShark]

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Aspects of budget,

'bout the same.

reliabity,

ak all the way.

magazines,

ak all the way. cheap drums, too.

and accessories

m4/ar platform is the gizmo-queen of the universe.


if you have neither an ar15 or an ak-47, my advice is to get the ak first, the ar15 second.



Where are these cheap .223 cal drums at?

The question wasn't should he get an AK-47 or an AR-15. The question was should he get a .223 cal AK or an AR. Given those options, I'd say AR all the way.

Mags are not easy to come by for the .223 cal AK and they are not always reliable. Even worst, all of the .223 cal AK's have propriatory mags made just for them. Other than some old Norinco .223 cal drums which are rare and expensive (and used only in Norinco .223 cal AKs), there aren't any .223 cal drums on the market.

Now a Galil would be a much better option than a .223 cal AK. The Galil was designed from the get go to be a .223 cal platform. It's proven, reliable, and good steel mags are easy to come by.

If the question were semi auto AK-47 v/s AR-15 though, I'd opt for the AK-47 first.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:37:50 AM EST
In this case I'd take the AR, but it would depend what brand. Oly Plinker no way, get the AK. Bushie, Armalite go AR.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:09:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pave:
Well, I remembered I had a few boxes in the car (am at work).....I borrowed a few current issue 30s (adventureline, black follower) and tried:

I could "Stuff" 28 in one mag and 29 in the other, but when stripping them out by hand I had to tap the mag (recoil sim) on a table edge to free up the next 3-4 rounds, but it wasn't reliable. At 20 and below, both mags functioned as if 5.56 was loaded.

I'll be darned.




For the tilt caused by the different case shape, you need the black followers instead of the newer ones.

I have never heard if Toad's AR47 lower has room to lengthen the magwell for 74 mags to be used with the Genghis.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 2:19:17 PM EST
I have this adapter that I have had for years! It lets me use AR mags with no problems feeding! Its also removable!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 2:30:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 2:33:26 PM EST by recon]
I have this adapter that I have had for years! It lets me use AR mags with no problems feeding! Its also removable! Please delete this one!
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:16:32 AM EST
After just sending two hours to take apart my AR to get out a stuck round out of the chamber, I'll take my SAR 3 over my AR anytime.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:01:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By PINEBARON:
After just sending two hours to take apart my AR to get out a stuck round out of the chamber, I'll take my SAR 3 over my AR anytime.



What caused the round to get stuck?
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:28:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 4:37:58 PM EST
"But the post was about .223. Bleh, who needs an AK in .223?"

I do. I just shot a practical rifle match with one, an Arsenal M-5S, with iron sights. Because of steel target damage you cannot shoot any bullet that a magnet sticks too. I can use Winchester Q3131A just fine.

Magazines are no problem. Either search hard for high priced Bulgarian waffles or order Robinson Arms modified AK74 mags for a little more than you buy the cheap AR mags for on the EE board. I have both and they work great.

I didn't notice a weight difference at the match. I carried a little less ammo this match and didn't have any weight related injuries. ;-)
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:17:44 PM EST
maybe I'm odd, but I think an AK should be in 7.62, or maybe 5.45 or what ever the russian 5mm is
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 4:48:37 AM EST
If you want a 5.56x45/.223 get a M4. If you want an AK get it in an AK caliber 7.62x39 or 5.45x39. I just don`t care much for AK`s in .223. But that`s just me.
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