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Posted: 9/2/2004 12:55:14 PM EST
OK, I currently own a norinco and a wasr10, both in 7.62. With the AWB going away i've been considering getting an ar/m4 type rifle as a more tactical/cqb type arm. But damn, some of those prices are just nuts, you could get two decent AK's for the price of one AR.

My question is, what would a good AK alternative to the AR? Something with a shorter barrel, folding stock, and ability to mount optics or other "cool stuff".

At first of course, I figured a Krinkov or AMD65 type arm, but is there a better option out there?

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 12:58:39 PM EST
A Krinkov already is ruled out cause those puppies sure are expensive (unless you build it yourself for quite cheaply).
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:08:49 PM EST
Put an Ultimak and and a low mounted red dot on your WASR and you'll be tactical.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:10:39 PM EST
Still don't understand why people like to mount all that crap to their rifles.......like the ar crowd.

All it does is complicate your life.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:27:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 1:27:57 PM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

What is the most "tactical" AK out there?


The one held by skilled hands. Everything else is just excessive weight.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but I feel the following to be responsive to your inquiry.


Sly
(K.I.S.S. compliant)
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:28:24 PM EST
I'm not a fan of add on crap either, but the Ultimak with a dot sight is the shit and makes good hits with your AK much faster, especially at farther ranges. With the right sight, your iron sights are co-witnessed so you always have them and you can always confirm zero. Snap shooting is a breeze and shooting in low light or changing light is much easier with a higher hit propability. You get the same cheek weld as your iron sights and shouldering the rifle is fast and natural. Your aimed groups will shrink too. Nothing complicated about it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:35:14 PM EST
+1 on what AK103 said. I've got the ultimak rail and a russian PK01 with low weaver mounts on my AK104. Its simply the only way to run a AK. You can just see the sights through the bottom of the optic, which is good enough for emergencies. Fast and tight. Ultimak is a great product. I tossed on a CQB 3 point sling. Works awesome.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 2:24:00 PM EST
Listen to 103 & Viper, it' s good advise.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 4:32:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 4:34:00 PM EST by Corbic]

Originally Posted By EEJ:
Still don't understand why people like to mount all that crap to their rifles.......like the ar crowd.

All it does is complicate your life.



That is exactly why I don’t like AR rifles, all that "poser-crap". I saw a guy at the range a while back who had TWO Lasers, a flashlight and a scope on his AF with a Vertical grip... WTF.

Tactical to me is not "gadgetry", why not ad a stop-watch and a compos to the damn thing as well, throw in a PDA and a cell-phone too... stock mounted MP3 player anyone?

Jack
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 4:42:30 PM EST
a good ak 47 milled cost $600 PLUS / the AR15 cost $550 if you build it your self how is the AK cheaper?????????????????????????????????????
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 5:20:33 PM EST
thanks for the replies fellas...I was only planning on mounting some type of low light scope. I will begin to research the ultimak.

okguy91, MOST of the time AK's are cheaper, and building an AR is something I didn't want to get into. I was planning on probably getting a Colt or Bushmaster m4 type rifle, which will definately be over $800.
Both of my AK's costed $350 or less if i remember right.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 5:41:33 PM EST
For the mere mortals who can't assemble their own, can't troubleshoot, and buys off the shelf, which really costs less? Right now WASRs are about 400, with mags about 15, depending on the store. Must I bring up ammo prices of ball ammo? Assuming the WASR2s in 5.45 become reality, that adds recoil on a par with the AR with a round that at least in wolf performs on a par with M193 and may exceed it in lethality. Flame on!
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:51:19 PM EST
I think JOEKING and Hessee have collaborated ona new AK Tactical model??????
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:21:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 5:24:09 AM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

Originally Posted By okguy91:
a good ak 47 milled cost $600 PLUS / the AR15 cost $550 if you build it your self how is the AK cheaper?????????????????????????????????????



AFAIK you're comparing a factory built AK to a home built AR. Not even a close comparison!

I'm sure the builders here can throw together an AK for less way less than $500, probably less than $400 and still have a "quality build". A home built AR under $500 is probably going to have a cast lower and a non-chromed bore. (ETA, OK I see you threw ""milled" in there, that's like comparing a cast AR lower to forged lower. The milled lowers will run more for a build)

Not trying to be argumentative- but it's a fact, the AK is the cheaper alternative- to begin with. As with any AR or AK, the builder can easily go nuts by continually upgrading or adding gadgets = to a second mortgage.

Sly
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:30:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By okguy91:
a good ak 47 milled cost $600 PLUS / the AR15 cost $550 if you build it your self how is the AK cheaper?????????????????????????????????????




Add the cost of tools needed for an AR build. The price goes up.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:13:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

What is the most "tactical" AK out there?


The one held by skilled hands. Everything else is just excessive weight.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but I feel the following to be responsive to your inquiry.


Sly
(K.I.S.S. compliant)




I see no problem with an optic, vert grip and small flash light.


You would be simple in the dark not to have a flash light.....
Iron sights suck with a weapon mounted light so glass is good....
I use the vert grip to alleviate muzzle rise during fast fire, but I prefer it the other way....
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 1:31:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

What is the most "tactical" AK out there?


The one held by skilled hands. Everything else is just excessive weight.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but I feel the following to be responsive to your inquiry.


Sly
(K.I.S.S. compliant)




I see no problem with an optic, vert grip and small flash light.


You would be simple in the dark not to have a flash light.....
Iron sights suck with a weapon mounted light so glass is good....
I use the vert grip to alleviate muzzle rise during fast fire, but I prefer it the other way....



Maybe I wasn't overly clear on my main point...

Skilled hands-

Yes, accesories can help to give a tactical edge- but if you don't have skill in how to use them effectively to your advantage, you're just adding excessive weight and wasting ammo funds.

I've been IPSC shooting for a couple of years now and it amazes me to see folks put red dot optics, quick this and extended that on their weapons only to find out that while the accesories may aid their shooting- the accesories themselves won't make anyone into a wonder shot by just simply adding the accesories to their weapon. (Truth be told I have, to a limited extent, found myself looking at my old AR wondering why I wasted the money for something that even if it's used was mastered- didn't aid my shooting, luckily it was small stuff)

YMMV.

Sly
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 2:13:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

What is the most "tactical" AK out there?


The one held by skilled hands. Everything else is just excessive weight.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but I feel the following to be responsive to your inquiry.


Sly
(K.I.S.S. compliant)




I see no problem with an optic, vert grip and small flash light.


You would be simple in the dark not to have a flash light.....
Iron sights suck with a weapon mounted light so glass is good....
I use the vert grip to alleviate muzzle rise during fast fire, but I prefer it the other way....



Maybe I wasn't overly clear on my main point...

Skilled hands-

Yes, accesories can help to give a tactical edge- but if you don't have skill in how to use them effectively to your advantage, you're just adding excessive weight and wasting ammo funds.

I've been IPSC shooting for a couple of years now and it amazes me to see folks put red dot optics, quick this and extended that on their weapons only to find out that while the accesories may aid their shooting- the accesories themselves won't make anyone into a wonder shot by just simply adding the accesories to their weapon. (Truth be told I have, to a limited extent, found myself looking at my old AR wondering why I wasted the money for something that even if it's used was mastered- didn't aid my shooting, luckily it was small stuff)

YMMV.

Sly



It needed a laser.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 3:28:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:05:18 AM EST
This is a interesting discussion.. How about just the ultimak rail and some kind of optic as a compromise? Of course nowdays would be nice to have a folder, birdcage and bayo-lug also :)

Blackops_1.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:45:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 4:46:41 AM EST by Tomac]
My tactical AK? 5.45 SEAK w/Romy folder, PK-AS sight (no batteries needed for daytime use, dual dot/circle reticle, irons instantly available), Znich tactical light & extended mag release. Does everything I want it to do in the conditions I want it to at the ranges I want it to.
Tomac
PS- Anyone know how to add photos to the photo server here???
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:53:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tomac:
My tactical AK? 5.45 SEAK w/Romy folder, PK-AS sight (no batteries needed for daytime use, dual dot/circle reticle, irons instantly available), Znich tactical light & extended mag release.




Please show pics, 'cause you just described exactly what i want to get!
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:53:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 6:37:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Agrippa:

Originally Posted By Tomac:
My tactical AK? 5.45 SEAK w/Romy folder, PK-AS sight (no batteries needed for daytime use, dual dot/circle reticle, irons instantly available), Znich tactical light & extended mag release.


Please show pics, 'cause you just described exactly what i want to get!



I'd be happy to if I could figure out how to add my photos to the photo server here (a little help, please?...) In the meantime drop me an email or IM w/your email address and I'll email some good pics to you (how large a jpg file can your email account handle?)
Tomac
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 10:01:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tomac:

Originally Posted By Agrippa:

Originally Posted By Tomac:
My tactical AK? 5.45 SEAK w/Romy folder, PK-AS sight (no batteries needed for daytime use, dual dot/circle reticle, irons instantly available), Znich tactical light & extended mag release.


Please show pics, 'cause you just described exactly what i want to get!



I'd be happy to if I could figure out how to add my photos to the photo server here (a little help, please?...) In the meantime drop me an email or IM w/your email address and I'll email some good pics to you (how large a jpg file can your email account handle?)
Tomac



Tinypic doesnt require registration, is free, is fast and easy.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:23:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 11:35:10 AM EST by Tomac]
Photo (I hope...)
Tomac
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:31:57 AM EST
Tactical: SLR95/PKASV/Sling/Bipod/Magcinch

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