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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/1/2006 4:35:15 PM EDT
I remember reading that foreign-made rifles could not be imported, or maybe it was only military-pattern rifles. Can someone comment on this?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:52:02 PM EDT
The 68 gun control act applied the term "sporting" to imports. That stopped all military firearms imports, bolt action Mausers, et al. In 1986 Reagan gave away new machine gun production but got the imports back. You will see listings for firearms that may say, non-import marked, etc....usually referring to the fact that it came into this country prior to 1968. Since they do not have an importers name on them, they do fetch more money as they are a hair more original and certainly more collectable.

Now, sporting arms were still allowed in, just not in a military configuration. Makes alot of sense, don't it?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:29:43 PM EDT
Thank you TerryG3.

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. Just as much sense as regulating the length of a rifle barrel <16". My understanding is that the NFA was going to make handguns Title II firearms as well, but then it was taken out of the legislation. The whole reason to have it in there is because both SBR's and handguns are easily concealed. So what do they do? They remove handguns from the proposed law but leave the SBR's in. It's a heck of a lot easier to conceal a handgun. Not that we should have the NFA of 1934.

Overall then, I think that while there should be no regulation of machine guns, gunowners as a whole made out pretty good under Reagan. I take it that there would be no AK parts kits coming in had Reagan not passed new laws.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:00:00 PM EDT
Parts kits are relatively new thing. They just started poping up in the last 10 years.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:13:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Parts kits are relatively new thing. They just started poping up in the last 10 years.



Say what? I can remember as a kid in the early 80's my dad had the sales flyers for machine gun parts kits...for any military gun....at dirt cheap prices.....and there was tons of sales flyers and in the back of all the magazines
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:48:32 AM EDT
A couple of things,

The law change that allowed the re-importation of C&R military rifles was not part of the 86 Firearm Owners Protection Act (machinegun ban). Senator Dole from Kansas (God Bless his Viagra laden sole, he does have a damn good sense of humor unlike so many of the politicians these days), originated a piece of foreign trade legislation that was umpteen hundred pages long, and buried deep inside was a little clause that re-authorized the importation of military firearms that met the definition of a curio and relic, non-NFA weapon. So in the fine Congressional tradition of not reading legislation that is being voted on, the pro and anti gun congressmen alike passed the bill. Then after it was signed into law the NRA announced that the importation of C&Rs was legal again. Not sure but Senator Dole was probably told by his fellow Republicans don't do that again Bob cause we sure don't want to have to start reading every piece of legislation we vote on. IIRC this legislation was prior to 86.

I purchased an AR10 parts kit in the early 80s and have been told that some FG42 parts kits were advertised in the Shotgun News back in the 60s. Sure would like to have seen that ad.

jithaca
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:25:48 AM EDT
Just to clarity: most AK-47 parts kits are not C&R, so that was still the 1986 law, correct?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:26:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jithaca:
A couple of things,

Senator Dole from Kansas (God Bless his Viagra laden sole, he does have a damn good sense of humor unlike so many of the politicians these days), originated a piece of foreign trade legislation that was umpteen hundred pages long, and buried deep inside was a little clause that re-authorized the importation of military firearms that met the definition of a curio and relic, non-NFA weapon.



He was quite the politician, he also snuck in that 10 year deal on the AWB, saved our butts with that move.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:07:29 AM EDT
Quite a few of the transferable machineguns were brought in as demilled kits and then re-welded prior to the '86 ban. The demil standard back then was a single saw cut through the receiver. New weapons that were made in F/A after 1968 outside of the US were not importable for civilian use, IIRC. Weapons produced after 1968 outside of the US could be brought in as dealer samples. Now, the other way they got around this was by using a imported semi-auto weapon and converting it to F/A but some weapons were never available/imported as semi-autos.

Hope this helps some.

thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:41:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:04:12 PM EDT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Parts kits are relatively new thing. They just started poping up in the last 10 years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your showing your age, Pup, you must have never went to a gun show in the eighties, because when the Western PA Gun Collectors show was at its heyday, you could walk down one aisle and buy Sten kits for about 25 bucks, and walk down the next aisle and buy the tubes with a bonded on template.

The originator of the AR-15 Auto Sear, some weird looking dude with a Company called Su-Press-On used to sell them there as well, for forty bucks, I believe, he also sold complete M2 carbine "Rock and Roll" kits, with all but the hammer, and you could go three rows down and buy all your M16 parts, and of course an M2 hammer, from a guy who had a bin of them.

Cases of used Chinese SKS's in cosmo, 500 bucks for ten, in the crate, and steel core ammo for 59 bucks a thousand, I think you could get it for 49 if you bought a pallet. I went in with a bunch of cops on Norinco 223, and I believe it was 80 or 89 bucks a thousand, and I thought it was high, compared to the 7.62, but I had a CAR to feed.

Cripes if I would have had the money and the knowledge I do now, prior to the MG ban, you could buy a Sten or MP40 tube and parts kit, for less than the 200 dollar transfer fee, and build it yourself after the approval. I remember one old dude who was freaking out with happiness because he went and picked up his Uzi Pistol, full auto, and I asked him what it cost, he told me 900 bucks, and I was amazed that somebody would pay that MUCH for a machine gun.

Parts kits arent new, the rash of recent imports has been for the building of Semi auto guns for the most part at least with the AK's, and FAL's, as it was cheaper to buy the parts than make them here. In the old days, it was to make a "sock drawer" machine gun, or a Sten to bury, and by the numbers of guys walking out with auto sears and Sten kits there has to THOUSANDS of them buried out there somewhere.

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:51:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By frick:

Cases of used Chinese SKS's in cosmo, 500 bucks for ten, in the crate, and steel core ammo for 59 bucks a thousand, I think you could get it for 49 if you bought a pallet. I went in with a bunch of cops on Norinco 223, and I believe it was 80 or 89 bucks a thousand, and I thought it was high, compared to the 7.62, but I had a CAR to feed.



I remember the yellow box Norinco .223 ammo used to sell in crates of 1,600 rounds for about $140. That's back when Paragon used to be in business and had those amazing ammo deals.

thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:57:40 PM EDT
I had a gun shop in the early 80's, and don't remember much about any parts kits, except I do remember ads for 1919A4' parts kits. I also remember selling a ton of the ar15 drop in auto sears, for $15 each. I could buy them for $9-$10 each in quantity. As I recall, most of the purchasers for these were cops. I also sold a lot of H&K 91 and 93 rifles, AR's, and MAADI AK's from Egypt. They were I believe the 1st AK's brought into the USA, and were real expensive, $700-$800 each. Also sold a lot of open bolt MAC10's and MAC9's.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:13:54 PM EDT
"Paragon" & "Su-press-on", wow, an that brought back memories!

Oh that Yellow box Norinco in the wood crate.

I remember once when things were getting hot-n-heavy around the time the Dems were pushing to ban the AP stuff (Remember the Black Talon hollow point fiasco, although not AP, caused quite a political rucus), my friend was going to buy a case of 7.62x39, the guy wanted him to fill out a 4473 (Yankee lake Gun show Yankee lake Ohio), I said no way are you going to make him fill out a 4473, that is for firearms purchases only, he wouldnt sell us the ammo).

Crazy times late 80's early 90's


Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:41:21 PM EDT
Interesting info. Keep it coming guys. I was 16 and living in Canada when the 86 ban was passed.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:46:08 PM EDT
Su-press-on still sells auto sears in the SGN, but from what I understand the sale of them is now illegal, because since 86 theres no way to make a MG, so there is no way an auto sear can be used unless its a replacement part for a legally registered MG.

I wonder if BATFE trolls his customer list from time to time.

Of course if you could buy a new chinese AK for sub 300 bucks, why would anybody ever think of importing a kit?

Plus dont forget the Com bloc was still our enemy at the time, I dont think Bulgaria would have thought of selling us new parts kits, with, or without barrels.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:30:32 PM EDT
True, alot of parts kits were availabe for a long time.....we just never saw any quantity. We had no real import deals with anything behind the iron curtain. Western parts kits, no biggie, for the most part. The first 1919 kit I bought around 1990..wish I had at least kept the tripod. The popularity of actually building one of these is a fairly recent thing.

And, as the Doctor said, all the transferable machinegun guns, built on a foreign pattern, between 68 and 86 were all converted semi's......all those MP5's going to 20k started out as a $450 HK-94, UZI's, all of them. I thought it was a real rip, you could buy an UZI semi for about $450.00 and they wanted 200 bucks more for a full-auto. I thought that was outragous....I should have bought some :( Police Dept, price on M1 Thompsons was 75 bucks. When S&W came out with the M76 subguns, they sold for $76.00......all the laws did was make them out of reach for most people.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:02:55 AM EDT
AK parts kits are a new thing.. They have only really started to appear since the ban on hi-cap thumbhole rifles.

As someone mentioned, during the 80s, AK parts were pretty rare.. Almost all of the AK producing nations were our sworn enemy.

Prior to 1968, parts kits were not needed. Look in an old shotgun news.. You will find either live MGs, or DEWATTs..

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