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Posted: 3/12/2005 9:43:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 1:00:25 PM EDT by Progunvoter]
As of 9-27-2005 - the original title of this thread was "Wolf 7.62 Ammo - Never Again." Bottomline - I was WRONG. Wolf ammo is darn good stuff in my opinion. My jamming problems were caused by my Magazine followers. The mags just didn't get the wolf hollow-points situated correctly for semi-auto loading. I changed out the followers and now Wolf Hollow Point cycles like a champ. Good Ammo, I'm a Believer in Wolf.

Now read on to all the ragging and then enlightenment. Page three is also fun to read. Regards.


Original post in Early 2005...
Good news, Bad news WOLF AMMUNITION - 7.62 hollow point

March 2005 received 1000 rounds from Cabalas plus two metal ammo cans.

The Cans are pretty decent. The whole deal including shipping was $88.94

Could have been a good deal - until I shot the WOLF Hollow Points. Jam, Jam, Jam.

Every single Box of 20 rounds had at least one SHORT bullet in it - so short it wouldn't load out of the magazine. I fired 5 boxes (100 rounds) and had multiple failures to feed. Weapon, Mak-90.

Afterward I inspected 100 additional rounds. Terrible inconsistency between round lenght - apparently wolf is your typical Russian company - unmotived to produce a quality product, no quality control.

I will NEVER EVER USE THIS AMMO FOR SELF DEFENSE .... NOT RELIABLE!!!

I'll endure the jams and shoot up this junk up at the range, but NEVER buy Wolf again.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:06:14 AM EDT
I avoid the hollow point ammunition as much as possible.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:04:55 AM EDT
was this the new polymer grey wolf? or the old green stuff
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:23:48 AM EDT
i have shot over 3000 rnds of the wolf HP in the 640rnd tins thruogh my wasr 10. over 10,000 rnds total now through it since august. the wolf HP has never once given me a failure that i remember. have had like 2 total stove pipes from the older laqured stuff that was FMJ.

the tins were aquired from either CTD or sportsmansguide.

you should make sure its not a problem with the gun. did you measure the "short" rounds? i would like to see a pic of what is causing this! why would a short round not load out of the mag?
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:37:42 AM EDT
Never have had reliabilty problems with Wolf, just a wayward impact every 5 rounds or so.
What was the difference in OAL?
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:03:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 12:09:53 PM EDT by CARman]
I got some of the same ammunition this month as well form Cabela's with the two ammo cans, but have had no problems with it in about two hundred rounds through two of my Yugo M59 SKS's. It was the hollow points.

It is advertised as laquer coated. I haven't seen any of the polymer stuff, so I don't know what it would look like.

Mine seems consistent and reasonably accurate at least for me. Just my personal experience, plus some of the individual boxes were cut and rounds were loose in the shipping box,but not damaged and Cabela's gave me $15.00 credit back, so it came out to about .07 cents per round delivered and I got two steel ammo cans that were in excellent condition worth about an additional $8.00.href=www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jhtml?id=0024645214071a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnString=hasJS=true&_D%3AhasJS=+&QueryText=7.62&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jhtml.22&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=7.62&noImage=0&returnPage=search-results1.jhtml&_requestid=1293&_requestid=6251&_requestid=8121
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:19:53 PM EDT
I've never had a problem with Wolf ammo, FMJ, or HP.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:28:29 PM EDT
85% OF ALL Chinese AK-47'S WON'T FEED HP.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:40:15 PM EDT
Wolf is dirty as shit, inaccurate as hell, but i have fired 7.62 HP old and new style for a Norinco, SAR-1, a custom Inrange 47 and not one jam or stovepipe....
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:43:38 PM EDT
Wolf ammo = steel cases

Steel cases on steel chamber = not a good combo

this is why most other ammo companies choose a softer metal for their cartriges
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:43:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Headlice:
Wolf ammo = steel cases

Steel cases on steel chamber = not a good combo

this is why most other ammo companies choose a softer metal for their cartriges



Wolf ammo is the same ammo the russian army uses. the AK47 was DESIGNED to fire the steel cased ammo.

My ak47 firing only wolf will outlive any other rifle you compare it to no matter how much brass cased sugar coated ammo you feed it for its pampered existance


the other thing to understand is that not all steel is created equal. the steel cases are much weaker then any of the parts in the rifle itself.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:37:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Headlice:
Wolf ammo = steel cases

Steel cases on steel chamber = not a good combo

this is why most other ammo companies choose a softer metal for their cartriges



AK's and SKS's were designed around a steel cased round, though if you want to pay top dollar for domestic ammo with improper bullet diameter and soft primers, you go boy. You're not gonna get any closer to the X, and the fun of a slamfire cannot be adequately described.

As for the original poster, I'd say either you got a bad mag, bad batch, or bad gun. I'd like to hear the results with the same rifle using Barnaul HP or.. say.. that czech training ammo. OAL on the training ammo is far shorter than regular stuff, but seems to function pretty good.

What sort of jam were you experiencing? Was the round stripping from the mag? Failure to chamber fully? What? You're talking about a gun and ammo combo that works flawlessly for LOTS of people.. Something's just not adding up.

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:40:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Headlice:
Wolf ammo = steel cases

Steel cases on steel chamber = not a good combo

this is why most other ammo companies choose a softer metal for their cartriges


Link Posted: 3/13/2005 4:20:12 PM EDT
More detailed - the Jam was in the Magazine - rounds locked up inside the mag when it was it's turn to chamber. Each time the round was measurably shorting than others. The breach would jam OPEN and the round would be stuck in the mag but out enough to hand up the bolt.

This is the first time I fire the weapon so indeed, it may be a gun problem. However, EACH TIME the round was SHORT. I kept a couple of the shorts just for reference. Tell me how to put a photo on here and I'll show them.

Also this is NOT the green laqured round. It has a light gray finish finsh with no visible laqure.

I'll be a couple of weeks before I can get back to the range, I have a couple of other brands of ammo I try including some Remington UMC purchased at walmart for $9.45 Includes tax - 20 rounds. Thats 47 cents a shot!

Anyway. I am totally certain about the inconsistency of the Wolf Ammo in terms of seating the bullet.
Now maybe I have a bad mag or a bad rifle (NEW Mak-90), so I'll switch out the mag next time and try several different types of ammo.
hug.gif
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:05:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Progunvoter:
More detailed - the Jam was in the Magazine - rounds locked up inside the mag when it was it's turn to chamber. Each time the round was measurably shorting than others. The breach would jam OPEN and the round would be stuck in the mag but out enough to hand up the bolt.

This is the first time I fire the weapon so indeed, it may be a gun problem. However, EACH TIME the round was SHORT. I kept a couple of the shorts just for reference. Tell me how to put a photo on here and I'll show them.

Also this is NOT the green laqured round. It has a light gray finish finsh with no visible laqure.

I'll be a couple of weeks before I can get back to the range, I have a couple of other brands of ammo I try including some Remington UMC purchased at walmart for $9.45 Includes tax - 20 rounds. Thats 47 cents a shot!

Anyway. I am totally certain about the inconsistency of the Wolf Ammo in terms of seating the bullet.
Now maybe I have a bad mag or a bad rifle (NEW Mak-90), so I'll switch out the mag next time and try several different types of ammo.



Got calipers? Measurement will do. I just specced out some Barnaul FMJ and it's all remarkably consistent with an OAL of 2.19". I've never noticed Wolf to be the best made stuff, but serious deviation in overall length would definitely steam my clams. A good jam could squish the round between mag and bolt so as to reduce length, but from the sound of your first post the short ones were like that right out of the box.

For what it's worth, Wolf is generally considered the worst of the russkie steelcase ammo. Worst as in "this stinks more" and "my groups are larger" though, not so much from a failure standpoint. It's the greeks I normally expect massive and dangerous deviations from. Russian hollowpoints don't expand worth a damn though, so if FMJ works I'd use it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 4:52:52 AM EDT
Ive shot countless rounds of Wolf...No problems...My AR even shoots it...
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:35:36 AM EDT
I've shot many thousand rounds of 7.62 wolf hp and fmj with no malfunctions. Check your gun or magazines. Also the steel used for shells is much softer than the chamber of your gun. Commie guns are made to use steel shells with berden primers. Don't waste your money on domestic brass rounds.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:55:32 AM EDT
the rounds might be "short" because the bolt is SLAMMING forward on the round, pushing it into the magazine and forcing the bullet further in. seems like a mag problem to me. what kind of mags are they?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 4:49:27 PM EDT
Progunvoter, can you or anyone else who may know be able to tell me or have a picture of how to tell the difference between the polymer and lacquer finishes. Like I stated above I got some of the same ammo as you did and it is light gray, but the finishes texture looks the same as the golden tiger ammo I know is lacquer coated from others who have used it, but it is the green color.

Just wondering if the Cabela's advertised description is wrong. I would be happy if it is the polymer coating though.hot
Thanks
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:21:17 PM EDT
Maybe I missed it somewhere... what kind of weapon were you using, PROGUNVOTER, when you had these problems with the HP Wolf ammunition?

Frankly I am astonished that there were problems at all if youo were using a combloc weapon...ie a Kalashnikov or Simonov rifle...

Usually, no always... issues with FTF can be traced to the magazine... but, then again, i could be wrong. But its just my experience.

Hope you can get this issue fixed and can resume with some quality shooting!

Y-
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:06:35 PM EDT
My SAR-1 eats Wolf HP like candy. I finished off my last case of the old laquered stuff this weekend. Well over 10K rounds with no malfunctions. Do you have any other rifles you can test the ammo with? Are your mags OK? Something doesn't sound right about this.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:10:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:11:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:38:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
I bought an MAK several years ago and had a problem with HP ammo. This was when Wolf was still TCW. Since then, I just stick with FMJ in all my rifles.



Wolf aint Tula anymore? Since when?

I know the x54R stuff is Noviosbirsk, thought the bulk of their stuff was still Tula.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:37:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2005 7:48:26 PM EDT
Old Wolf= green lacquer coating on cases

New Wolf= gray color to coating on case
Link Posted: 3/26/2005 12:23:43 PM EDT
Range Visit update End of March

Well gang, looks like I'm very much in the 'learning stage' of this group. I believe you might be right - the problem APPEARS to be with THE MAGZINE not the ammo.

SORRY WOLF ---- SO FAR. not totally convinced of the source of the jaming problem but learned something new today at the range.

Used NEW unfired magazine plus the First MAG that had only seen range action once. Fired both Wolf Ammo and Walmart Winchester.

NO jams with the walmart.

NO jams with the NEW unfired mag - 100% feed 50 rounds, no problems.

JAMS with the FIRST MAGAZINE - twice. Once with Wolf ammo and once with a plain Jane Green Laquered. Both were hollow points. Fired about 40-50 rounds with the First Mag, Mag fully loaded the first time, partial the second.

Also noticed that the board is right AGAIN - the jamming might be responsible for pushing the bullet down into the throat of the cartridge - 1/16 of an inch or so.

Finally, I also inspected over a hundred rounds BEFORE loading them into the mags - their lenght was all over the map - a few SHORT a few LONG and everything inbetween.

Bottom line - looks like a Mag issue. I'm not positive, but the indicators are pointing that way. Need many more trips to the range to be certain. Possibly may need to scour gun shows to buy another MAK-90 or a new AK-74 so I'll have somethign to compare to.

Link Posted: 3/26/2005 1:31:33 PM EDT
I have one magazine that feeds FMJ all day long, but chokes on HP's and soft points. I marked it and just fill it full of fmj stuff.



Sounds like you have a mag issue.
Link Posted: 3/29/2005 8:06:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By inferno715:
I've never had a problem with Wolf ammo, FMJ, or HP.



+1
Link Posted: 4/5/2005 3:13:17 PM EDT
The only 7.62 russian at the store was wolf polymer coated hollow points. I didn't expect much but they worked without a hitch (at least in the mag I tried them in)

________________________________________________________________

Dirty deeds.....done dirt cheap
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 7:42:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2005 7:45:01 PM EDT by resq944]
If you wont shoot Wolf, Then why do you care about 5.45x39 AP??? Who do you think would be importing all that 5.45x39 AP you seem to want? Not the Chinises their ammo is already not imported.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=280515

I shoot wolf all the time in my AK clones in both 5.45x39 and 7.62x39, it works every time is dirty as hell and cheap as dirt, running brass through AKs is just a plain waste of money.

Of course all I ever do is go hunting casue that's what the 2nd amendment is about after all.

Link Posted: 6/30/2005 9:21:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2005 9:21:52 PM EDT by repub18]
I'll shoot wolf for plinking but I will only use port, Uly and barnual for Self defense or SHTF stuff.
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 5:36:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Progunvoter:

I will NEVER EVER USE THIS AMMO FOR SELF DEFENSE .... NOT RELIABLE!!!




If you are just figuring this out, you need to do some more reading on self defense rounds. wolf should never even be considered for self defense, unless you have no other options.
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 5:40:27 AM EDT
My MAK90's love Wolf.
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 9:02:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:
I'll shoot wolf for plinking but I will only use port, Uly and barnual for Self defense or SHTF stuff.



Even the Barnaul and Uly aren't my first choices for self defense, but I can afford a LOT more of that than the domestic softpoints for SHTF.
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 9:20:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2005 9:49:47 PM EDT by mobius]

Originally Posted By legonas:
the AK47 was DESIGNED to fire the steel cased ammo.




why is that folks have this fetish that the AK was "designed" to fire steel case ammo? a rifle will fire just about any type of case...... steel, brass and even plastic cases. the case is just a package to hold the powder, bullet and primer...... rifles aren't "designed" to fire a perticular case, it's all about ecomonics, and availabilty of raw material......the russian's main reason for making steel cased ammo is because they are swimming in a vast sea of ore, so they use what is plentiful and abudent.
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 10:45:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CARman:
Progunvoter, can you or anyone else who may know be able to tell me or have a picture of how to tell the difference between the polymer and lacquer finishes.Thanks



Lacquer on the left, poly on the right.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 7:29:53 PM EDT
I agree with Legonas. This happened to me. When the bolt SLAMS the bullet into the front of the mag, it pushes the bullet further into the bullet casing. I have no doubt that you have a bad mag. Also do not shoot the bullets that this has happened to as this increases chamber pressure, possibly to the point where your rifle could explode
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 2:04:20 AM EDT
range update: just shot 400+ rounds of polymer 7.62x39 wolf in my 2 MAK 90's yesterday, no problems whatsoever, worked like a charm!
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 7:11:29 AM EDT
I fired 500 rd of Wolf 7.62x39 HP through my Vepr. Not a single jam.
I fired over 100 rd of Wolf 7.62x39 SP through my Vepr. Not a single jam.
I fired over 500rd of Wolf 7.62x39 FMJ through same rifle, no jams.

Lacquer coated, polymer coated, brass, whatever - the bullet hose worked fine.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 7:12:26 AM EDT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/klutz347/6-18-05036.jpg


That's the older polymer. Wolf no longer uses neck sealants. I did not see any neck sealants on the 2002 lacquer coated stuff either.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 2:04:08 PM EDT
HP or FMJs, all the wolf works just fine. The only problem I'm having is keeping enough on hand.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 6:33:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_Hoplite:
HP or FMJs, all the wolf works just fine. The only problem I'm having is keeping enough on hand.



I agree. Never had a stoppage/problem shooting Russian ammo.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 1:47:30 PM EDT
Have their been any instances of Wolf HP not feeding right in Chinese SKS rifles?

Ben
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 3:35:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
Have their been any instances of Wolf HP not feeding right in Chinese SKS rifles?

Ben



Sure.. But it's normally a mag issue
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 10:56:03 AM EDT
Since my original post I've been to the Range many more times. I owe Wolf an apology. I had a bad mag. Here's something else I learned, I took the problem mag, swapped out the follower-plate with a ORANGE colored USA made plate and the problem seems to have disappeared. I haven't had jam since. Thanks to the board for the suggestion to check out the mag.

Link Posted: 7/19/2005 1:05:18 PM EDT
Never had a prob with wolf either just a wayward round every now and then. kinda dirty but certainly not as dirty as they come. Some HPs dropped like crazy but that figures.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 8:42:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Progunvoter:
Since my original post I've been to the Range many more times. I owe Wolf an apology. I had a bad mag. Here's something else I learned, I took the problem mag, swapped out the follower-plate with a ORANGE colored USA made plate and the problem seems to have disappeared. I haven't had jam since. Thanks to the board for the suggestion to check out the mag.




Good Man to come back and post an update....

I have also shot thousands of rounds of Wolf with very few problems of any kind.... Wolf an AKs just goes together!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:32:35 AM EDT
Wow! Nice thread. I went through this whole thing with great interest.

I've got a few suspect POS mags. The follower replacement is a great idea; thank you.

As far as rounds for defense, it was mentioned to never use Wolf for defense. Why not?

Someone also mentioned they prefered the Barnaul over Wolf. Why? From what I've shot, the Barnaul produces muzzle flash like a strobe light. The flash is so bright I momentarily lose sight of the front sight post. The Wolf just barely produces a flicker of light. The rifle I experienced this with is an AMD 65 with a http://www.2guntom.com/454/group/2gunsfiring_v1.gif
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:07:52 AM EDT
Just tried that Wolf ammo last weekend didnt have a problem but i really don't like hollow points for some reason anyway.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:39:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 10:52:13 PM EDT by Caliburn]

Originally Posted By bharney:
Old Wolf= green lacquer coating on cases

New Wolf= gray color to coating on casehr

+1. To me at least the green lacquer seems a little bit "transparent" but the grey poly is more solid and uniform. I wash my hands REALLY well after handling either.

Like Klutz's picture shows: if the case looks like an ugly-ass green Soviet army uniform, it's lacquer. If it looks like an ugly-ass grey East German uniform, it's polymer.
hy
Hey, anyone heard what kinds of 7.62x39 ammo they're finding in Iraqistan? The AKs are from everywhere but I wonder if the ammo is Iraqi made or is all from Russia.
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