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Posted: 11/4/2007 2:32:26 PM EDT
I am looking at purchasing an AK47 type rifle in the near future, but I am unsure of the manufacturer I want to go with.  I have done a little research, and have found a company called Vector Arms, which seems to produce rifles of good quality.  I am basically looking for a basic style rifle, with the option of mounting optics, and the ability to mount a standard bayonet.  Is there any Mil-Spec on AK47 rifles, or is it all over the board?  Also, is there any standard style 30rd mag?  Can you mount side folding stocks on a Vector Arms AK47?  Is Vector Arms a good manufacturer to go with, or are there better?
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 2:45:18 PM EDT
I can't answer all of your questions, but I can tell you that Vector makes great AKs, because I own one.  The best 30rd mags are the commie steel mags, or the Bulgarian polymer waffle mags.  I prefer the steel, but many people like the poly mags.  Look here for AKs:  www.atlanticfirearms.com.  Great people to deal with, and ARFCOM members get a discount.
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 3:30:45 PM EDT

Quoted:
I am looking at purchasing an AK47 type rifle in the near future, but I am unsure of the manufacturer I want to go with.  I have done a little research, and have found a company called Vector Arms, which seems to produce rifles of good quality.  I am basically looking for a basic style rifle, with the option of mounting optics, and the ability to mount a standard bayonet.  Is there any Mil-Spec on AK47 rifles, or is it all over the board?  Also, is there any standard style 30rd mag?  Can you mount side folding stocks on a Vector Arms AK47?  Is Vector Arms a good manufacturer to go with, or are there better?


Vector makes excellent rifles; I know, I have one!  The fit and finish are beautiful and it has functioned 100%.  They are the best bang for the buck right now in my opinion.  Pretty much all side folding and underfolding stocks require a special rear trunnion.  However, Romanian wire side folding stocks can fit on a regular wood fixed stock AK trunnion (this includes Vector's regular wood fixed stock AK).  Vector does sell already completed side folders and underfolders though, so check them out.  All of the Vector AKs can accept the standard bayonets.  Most, if not all, Vector rifles don't come with the communist side mounted rail.  However, if I recall correctly, they will put one on for an additional fee.  Or you could do it yourself with a little bit of drilling (I did).  As for the magazines, STAY away from USA made magazines unless you can test them out yourself first.  However, all foreign made non-damaged 30 round magazines should fit and function 100% in your rifle.

You can contact Vector or see their product line at: www.vectorarms.com/shop/

Here is a picture of my Vector right after I bought it:
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Link Posted: 11/4/2007 3:36:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 5:09:29 PM EDT
will not go wrong or regret buying a Vector arms AK......for the money they are the best thing out there hands down....here is my side folding Vector AK47  polish tantal stock....love it



Link Posted: 11/4/2007 5:44:20 PM EDT
What kind of accuracy are these Vector Arms rifles capable of at 100 yards? (excluding operator error).  Also, can you get a fixed stock afterwards for a side folding stock rifle?
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 5:54:52 PM EDT
well you know your not going to get match grade accuracy out of an AK, that is a fact.....so the real question is how good can you shoot?


typical 6 shot group 50yrds with my AK.....at 100yrds it will open up a bit but I am on target everytime and thats what matters




Link Posted: 11/4/2007 6:00:52 PM EDT
So, I could only imagine something like 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards with a good shooter?  Also, is one brand of AK more accurate than another?  What type of AK were you shooting at this target?
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 6:30:18 PM EDT
yup I would say anywhere from 2 to 4inches.....the AK used is the one I have pictured.....buy a quality piece of gear(vector is quality) and the rest is up to you

breathing, ammo used, weather, so on........if you can shoot dont worry


if the SHTF your not going to be worrying about groups anyways....it will be enough to just get on target or keep heads low
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 6:41:11 PM EDT
Thanks survivorman, I think I will go with the Vector Arms rifle.  2-4 inches is all I really need.  I have seen the side rail optics mounts in cheaper than dirt mags and was wondering if there was any specific way to drill holes in the reciever for the rails to mount and how to mount them?
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 6:45:05 PM EDT
i love my Vector AK-47
(mine is a milled reciver version,.. they cost a bit more but are worth every penny )

this is at the range the day i got it.


and here it is now,. i had it polished and re-blued and moved the sling swivel to the rear of the reciver,. i have Russian & Ironwood stocks to put on the rifle once they are refinished. (cheapo poly stocks added for picture only) when it is all said and done it will be a sweet Type III clone



i got it from Atlantic in June,.what ever you get from those folks down there at Atlantic will be good stuff,. and if it is not they have great CS and they will make it right.
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 7:00:28 PM EDT
What makes the milled versions better than the stamped versions?
Link Posted: 11/4/2007 7:42:57 PM EDT
milled recievers are milled from a block of metal.......stamped recievers are just that, stamped.


both are great, but the stamped recievers are more current and in my opinion better for 2 reasons

1.  They dont retain heat as bad as milled recievers do

2.  Much lighter...



what do you mean as far as the side scope mount....are you talking just your run of the mill scope mount on the side of most AKs?   can you post a link from cheaper than dirt of what you mean?


I go with the ultimak scope mount, and right now there is nothing on the market that can touch it...they are bomb proof
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 4:06:59 AM EDT
The link for the side rail mount is as listed below:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AKS302-47449-1404.html

Also, do you have a link to the mount that you use?
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 9:31:52 AM EDT
I have a milled Vector like the one shown above. The rifle has been great. The finish and workmanship are 100%, I don't regret spending the money one bit.

My dad has the Lancaster AKM 47RM which is also listed above. There have been posts about the Lancaster rifle being not up to par. (canted sight, pitting etc,) My dads came to him 100% and he couldn't be happier with his purchase.

I have no information to give on any of the other Vectors, but if I were to buy another AK I would buy another Vector with confidence.

BTW: Atlantic Firearms has my confidence too. My dad and I never had one problem with them.
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 2:45:00 PM EDT
claybreaker  the scope mount you listed I dont think will work.....here are some pics for you, if you decide to get a vector just call them and ask if you can have a rifle with a scope mount on the side...Its not a big deal to add one at all



these pics have been taken off these boards the rifles do not belong to me and I am just using the pics for reference....



this is what a scope mount on an AK looks like, it is on the side of the reciever right above the trigger








this is a build done on a US reciever with no scope mount added......







This is an AK with a scope mount, and aimpont attached











I bought my rifle from Vector and have no scope mount on the side.....I dont like russian scopes, or mounts(way to bulky) so did not want one on.....for me the ultimak scope mount is the best bet   here is there website    www.ultimak.com/
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 5:26:23 PM EDT

Quoted:
milled recievers are milled from a block of metal.......stamped recievers are just that, stamped.


both are great, but the stamped recievers are more current and in my opinion better for 2 reasons

1.  They dont retain heat as bad as milled recievers do

2.  Much lighter...



i have to diagree with this,..if only slightly,.. the milled recivers only weigh about a pound and a half more that the stamped recivers. i completly agree both are GREAT rifles,. i perfer Mileed recivers because

1. smoother action  
2. lower amount of felt recoil (thats where the 1.5lbs makes a diffrence)
3. slightly more accurate
4. the reciver is nearly bomb proof (watch the video,. @ 04:28min,. its a milled SA-M7)
5. classic old world craftsmanship

dont get me wrong,.. i love the stamped AKM's as well,. and as a first or second AK i would recomend a AK with a stamped reciver,... later on if you want a nice classic looking rifle then you almos have to go with a milled reciver.

however,. most milled recivered rifles are set up with fixed stocks and pretty much plain jane rifles,. if you want a rifle with the cool stuff like a folding stock or something to can tacticool out then a stamped reciver would be more of what you would want.

now about the rails,.. alot of folks do not like the side rail,.. i am one of the ones that likes it though,. it is simple and effective,. and allows you to remove and install your optics without changing your zero,. the only thing is you have to get a good mount that is made for the AK rail (there is a SVD/SKS/PSL type as well)

not saying the Ultimak is not a good option,. it is a great way to mount optics/lazers if you do not have a side rail and it is also a great way to mount other items to your rifle if you have something mounted on your siderail already.

as soon as i get my AK-105 back i am probally going to put a Ultimak on it so i can use something else in addition to my Kobra red dot.
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 5:59:21 PM EDT

the milled recivers only weigh about a pound and a half more that the stamped recivers




that is a significant difference in weight....then add in a loaded mag and you will see an even bigger difference......the main point of switching over to stamped recievers were

1. cheaper to produce

2. Do not retain heat as much...and COOL down faster

3.  Much lighter....if you dont think shaving off one and a half pounds is significant in a battle rifle then ok...



was the AK made for scopes and precision shots?  nope  but will it get the job done...it sure will  I will trust it out to 300 - 400 yrds no problem(make hits and keep heads down).....for that all I may want is a red dot.....and the ultimak is a great choice to mount a red dot scope
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 6:17:10 PM EDT
I have a Vector Underfolder.  It is my favorite rifle, beyond all doubt.
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 6:22:28 PM EDT
Thanks for the info on the side rail mount survivorman.  I am most likely going to be having a side folding stock on the rifle, so I should then go with the stamped reciever version?  Survivorman, what kind of ammo were you shooting on that target you posted previously (brand, bullet weight, etc...)?  What is the best side folding stock that best retains the dimensions of the origional fixed stock (or improves upon them)?
Link Posted: 11/5/2007 7:22:17 PM EDT

Quoted:
Thanks for the info on the side rail mount survivorman.  I am most likely going to be having a side folding stock on the rifle, so I should then go with the stamped reciever version?  Survivorman, what kind of ammo were you shooting on that target you posted previously (brand, bullet weight, etc...)?  What is the best side folding stock that best retains the dimensions of the origional fixed stock (or improves upon them)?


a stamped on should do fine,.. which type of folder where you looking for? theres a few that will work on rifles set up for a fixed stock,. ACE makes a pretty good unit that i have yet to hear anything bad about. there is also the East German and Romanian "wire" sidefolders,.

these two pictures are of the same rifle,. with a just quick change in stock sets.
the folder in the bottom picture is a Romanian wire folder.




there are more varriations to the wire folders,. like the AMD-65,. and the AIMS-74 but they are basically the same thing,. the AMD-65 uses a diffrent reciver though

there is also the metal sidefolder that is used on the AKS-74 & AKS-74U clones and it looks like this one. the only problem with the left side folding stock are that you can not leave a optic mounted on your siderail (it is designed to be folded when in transport or storage)





they use a diffrent reciver than the standard AKM reciver,. in other words if you buy a WASR-10 (the rifle in the first pair of pictures) you would would not be able to use this type of folder.

then there is the solid / poly folder used on the AK-100 series of rifles and AK-74M,. shown here on my AK-105 clone



basically the same thing as the metal one above,. just alot more comforable,. and stocks like this come from the factory on the Arsenal SLR-106 & SLR-107 series rifles this stock is also interchangeable with the metal stock above as long as the hinge pin is the same dia. (Russian folders use a larger pin) and is the only one IMHO that feels as good as the fixed stock

i do not have any pictures of the ACE stocks,. but they look alot like the Galil or Para FAL stocks and fold to the right,. and i think they make one that you can change to left or right side folding.

other than that there are the underfolders,. but they are not the most comy to shoot,. although most folks do not have a problem with them,. if you do get a underfolder i would suggest a M-92,.DC industries / nodak spud makes a reciver for the M-92's and they also make rail that gets attached to the top cover so you can mount a optic. if i get my stamp back before i go overseas i am going to build a M-92 with that rail and put a Aimpoint on it.

ETA: if you are looking for a full sized 7.62 rifle with the solid folder your options are kinda limited unless Arsenal makes the SLR-107FR (they currently only make the CR & UR models) but there is always more than one way to skin a cat,... if you get a SLR-107CR you can have 24mm front sight w/bayo lug and 90 degree gas block w/ accesory lug instaled and you will basically end up with a AK-103 / SLR-107FR

or you can get a Saiga converted to the AK-103 style,.. this is not cheap or easy especially if you use the Russian folder.


nevermind,.. this is the rifle you want SLR-107 A1 R
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 4:10:36 AM EDT
I love the polish, east german, or romanian(last choice) wire folders.....for me they are very comfortable, some people hate them......I like them alot and very compact



the ammo I mostly use is the wolf military classic(accuracy is good) and barnaul Brown bear(best ammo in my opinion) very clean.......the older wolf stuff will open up as far as grouping but if you do your part it wont be to bad......hope it all helps and post pics when you get it :)
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 11:26:30 AM EDT
I will most likely go with a vector arms rifle.  If I get a model with a stamped reciever, then can I basically mount any side folding stock?
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 5:12:17 PM EDT

Quoted:
I will most likely go with a vector arms rifle.  If I get a model with a stamped reciever, then can I basically mount any side folding stock?


if you get a fixed stock rifle with a stamped reciver you can use most of the "wire" folding stocks and the ACE stocks,. the metal and poly sidefolders use a diffrent reciver.

Link Posted: 11/6/2007 6:07:13 PM EDT
I looked at the ACE stocks, and as long as I can go with any of those with a stamped reciever AK, I am fine with that.  They seem to cost more but it looks like it is worth it.
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 6:25:37 PM EDT
the ace stocks will work
Link Posted: 11/6/2007 6:46:46 PM EDT

Quoted:
I looked at the ACE stocks, and as long as I can go with any of those with a stamped reciever AK, I am fine with that.  They seem to cost more but it looks like it is worth it.


just make sure you can still meet the OAL requirement for your state,.. i know they have some goofy laws there about the folders.
Link Posted: 11/19/2007 6:56:07 AM EDT
Well, I decided to go with an AR instead.  Sorry guys, but thanks for your help.  If I ever want to get an AK, now I know what to look for.
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