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12/11/2018 1:58:31 AM
Posted: 6/14/2018 2:46:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2018 12:13:40 AM EST by Regal_T-type]
My buddy just got an m76, and as you know the mags for these go for a $shit-million. I've decided to save him a bit of money and 3d print him some. I was wondering if there are any m76 shooters out there that would like to test some prototypes and provide feedback.



These aren't gonna be like those flimsy ghost gunner ar mags, these are designed to last and *should* eventually offer similar performance to magpul ak mags. First run of prototypes will begin printing this weekend.
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 2:36:48 PM EST
I have a select fire M76...so I'm game for this!
Link Posted: 6/16/2018 7:38:47 PM EST
I am game to test one out if you still need additional testers?
Link Posted: 6/17/2018 7:10:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2018 8:05:51 PM EST by Regal_T-type]
The first prototype is being printed right now. It is being made out of low grade plastic and will be used to test if it locks into the rifle and feeds properly. I'll post pics here. After any necessary changes to the model are made to ensure proper functioning, a batch will be made out of industrial plastic. I'd be willing to hand out up to 10 or or so of this batch for testing. At this point I'm looking at 20 hours printer time per mag.




Link Posted: 6/18/2018 4:02:47 PM EST
I have Valmet M76’s and would be happy to test and compare against factory mags, Tromix converted Weiger mags and Tromix converted Bulgarian Circle 10 mags.

Mick
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 11:53:43 PM EST
I have the M76, would love to test the magazine !
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 7:09:44 PM EST
My rifle is a 71, 1 have( 1) 76 mag I picked up at a Gunshow I have used for years .
The only thing I hate about my rifle is the ugly Snow White camo paint job .For the $900 I paid, I guess I can't complain.
Link Posted: 6/28/2018 11:14:04 AM EST
My M76 is my sweetheart and any mag for her is like buying jewelry for my wife. So I would love to test a mag or two but I would be really happy with ability to get quality mags at a reasonable price.
Link Posted: 7/9/2018 2:44:45 PM EST






First prototype using pop-bottle plastic. Could not break it by hand
Link Posted: 7/12/2018 10:27:31 PM EST
Very cool !!
Link Posted: 7/16/2018 7:39:03 AM EST
You many have to change it for select-fire guns, in order to allow room for the auto-sear to clear the side.
When I converted Weiger mags, I had to add an additional cut for the full auto guns.

Tony Rumore
Tromix
Link Posted: 7/16/2018 7:35:15 PM EST
I posted these last year in a post about converting mags for Valmets, hopefully helpful.



Link Posted: 7/18/2018 7:33:42 AM EST
I would buy some if it ever got to that point...
Link Posted: 7/19/2018 9:41:28 PM EST
the printed mags are designed based on measurements I took of a genuine valmet mag. This should allow full auto use right?
Link Posted: 7/23/2018 7:00:34 PM EST
I have an M76F and would love to test some of these for you.
Link Posted: 7/23/2018 7:01:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Regal_T-type:
the printed mags are designed based on measurements I took of a genuine valmet mag. This should allow full auto use right?
View Quote
Yes
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 2:17:04 PM EST
I would like to test one of these if possible.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 8:50:59 AM EST
This is the second prototype, material used is down 35% and print time is down to 13 hours. This print is using my intended production material "NylonX" carbon fiber reinforced nylon.

https://www.matterhackers.com/store/3d-printer-filament/nylonx-carbon-fiber-nylon-filament-1.75mm




Link Posted: 8/20/2018 8:48:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Regal_T-type:
This is the second prototype, material used is down 35% and print time is down to 13 hours. This print is using my intended production material "NylonX" carbon fiber reinforced nylon.
View Quote
Looks Great ! Hope I will be able to test one :)
Link Posted: 8/26/2018 11:40:20 AM EST
I’m in for testing some of these million dollar mags when they become available. My Valmet M-76 is ready to rock!

Desmo
Link Posted: 8/26/2018 12:18:00 PM EST
I’d be willing to test ones let me know this is awesome hope your project goes well
Link Posted: 8/27/2018 5:52:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2018 6:03:26 PM EST by Regal_T-type]
Prototype 2 has been test fitted to the rifle. Fit is nice and snug with hardly any ak mag wobble. Sadly an issue with the base plate prevented test firing.





Prototype 3 addresses all known issues and all going well I will have test firing results by this weekend.




I'll be contacting people to receive test mags via PM or email in the order in which they asked for them on this thread. After field testing I will be making the mags available for sale.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 12:00:47 PM EST
Cool Project.
I've been buying Valmet mags for eons. good there.
Still, very cool!
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 3:45:47 AM EST
Great project OP!
You're doing the Valmet collectors world a real service.
Getting the feed angle correct would seem to be key since the Valmet has a different feed angle than many other AK designs.
I have a couple M76's including a full auto and would be interested in testing one of your mags as well if you need another volunteer.
If this project turns out to be financially viable for you, you may also consider printing Valmet .308 magazines. Original .308 20 rounders are even rarer and more expensive than the .223 mags.
Good work!
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 5:08:29 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AllAlphas:
Great project OP!
You're doing the Valmet collectors world a real service.
Getting the feed angle correct would seem to be key since the Valmet has a different feed angle than many other AK designs.
I have a couple M76's including a full auto and would be interested in testing one of your mags as well if you need another volunteer.
If this project turns out to be financially viable for you, you may also consider printing Valmet .308 magazines. Original .308 20 rounders are even rarer and more expensive than the .223 mags.
Good work!
View Quote
OP, clearly you know what you are doing with CAD and 3D printing, but could you break down the economics of this in rough terms? I just have a hard time seeing how 13 hours at print, plus materials and losses to waste or defects is cost effective either, aside from the 6-12 you could spit out over a few days for a friend (unless that was the only goal). Obviously it's far cheaper than original steel mags, but isn't it painfully slow?

How much would a set of injection molds cost to machine? I'm sure it's expensive, but if the comparison is $250-400 per mag, doesn't that drop the minimum economic quantity a lot?
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 5:48:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GTLandser:
OP, clearly you know what you are doing with CAD and 3D printing, but could you break down the economics of this in rough terms? I just have a hard time seeing how 13 hours at print, plus materials and losses to waste or defects is cost effective either, aside from the 6-12 you could spit out over a few days for a friend (unless that was the only goal). Obviously it's far cheaper than original steel mags, but isn't it painfully slow?

How much would a set of injection molds cost to machine? I'm sure it's expensive, but if the comparison is $250-400 per mag, doesn't that drop the minimum economic quantity a lot?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GTLandser:
Originally Posted By AllAlphas:
Great project OP!
You're doing the Valmet collectors world a real service.
Getting the feed angle correct would seem to be key since the Valmet has a different feed angle than many other AK designs.
I have a couple M76's including a full auto and would be interested in testing one of your mags as well if you need another volunteer.
If this project turns out to be financially viable for you, you may also consider printing Valmet .308 magazines. Original .308 20 rounders are even rarer and more expensive than the .223 mags.
Good work!
OP, clearly you know what you are doing with CAD and 3D printing, but could you break down the economics of this in rough terms? I just have a hard time seeing how 13 hours at print, plus materials and losses to waste or defects is cost effective either, aside from the 6-12 you could spit out over a few days for a friend (unless that was the only goal). Obviously it's far cheaper than original steel mags, but isn't it painfully slow?

How much would a set of injection molds cost to machine? I'm sure it's expensive, but if the comparison is $250-400 per mag, doesn't that drop the minimum economic quantity a lot?
Not exactly sure why you quoted me and then addressed your comments to the OP...but I'll throw up an @Regal_T-type and we can get his response to your questions.
csspecs is now building 25 round Galil magazines and has stated that they plan on building Valmet magazines in the future. Others have stated this intention in the past but csspecs appears to have the tooling to get it done.
Here's a link to his website and the new Galil mags they just came out with...
https://stores.csspecs.com/galil-308/
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 1:38:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AllAlphas:

Not exactly sure why you quoted me and then addressed your comments to the OP...but I'll throw up an @Regal_T-type and we can get his response to your questions.
csspecs is now building 25 round Galil magazines and has stated that they plan on building Valmet magazines in the future. Others have stated this intention in the past but csspecs appears to have the tooling to get it done.
Here's a link to his website and the new Galil mags they just came out with...
https://stores.csspecs.com/galil-308/
View Quote
Oh. Because I'm a goofball. I'm not sure why you were quoted either, unless I just have fat fingers. My bad.

What about 5.56 Galil mags? You had my interest, but now you have my attention.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 4:49:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GTLandser:
Oh. Because I'm a goofball. I'm not sure why you were quoted either, unless I just have fat fingers. My bad.

What about 5.56 Galil mags? You had my interest, but now you have my attention.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GTLandser:
Originally Posted By AllAlphas:

Not exactly sure why you quoted me and then addressed your comments to the OP...but I'll throw up an @Regal_T-type and we can get his response to your questions.
csspecs is now building 25 round Galil magazines and has stated that they plan on building Valmet magazines in the future. Others have stated this intention in the past but csspecs appears to have the tooling to get it done.
Here's a link to his website and the new Galil mags they just came out with...
https://stores.csspecs.com/galil-308/
Oh. Because I'm a goofball. I'm not sure why you were quoted either, unless I just have fat fingers. My bad.

What about 5.56 Galil mags? You had my interest, but now you have my attention.
5.56mm Galil mags are still widely available and reasonably priced. Original mags are also very well made and not prone to wearing out. No reason to make aftermarket mags at this time and unlikely to be profitable for the manufacturer.
.308 Galil magazines have become harder to find and prices have risen to the $100+ region making them economically feasible to manufacture.
Some other magazines that are notoriously expensive to purchase and might be something for Regal_T-type to print include: H&K P7M13 pistol mags are going for $150+, Japanese Type 96 machine gun magazines currently $1200 plus, Beretta AR-70 30 round 5.56mm magazines are $65+ for used and $100+ for new
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 11:40:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2018 11:58:11 PM EST by Regal_T-type]
This is correct, my cost to make one of these mags is roughly the same as the retail price of a Pmag. Not to mention the nearly 18 hour print time on my brother's crappy printer. Prints are done in Michigan and shipped down to me for hand finishing and assembly. I will have to ask relatively scary money for these at least until I can afford a faster machine. Hell if demand is high enough I might have to take out a loan and buy multiple printers.

I chose the valmet because I had ready access to a real mag and can easily undercut the cost of a real mag. For any other mag I would need a brave or kind soul to loan me a real one to take measurements and the willingness to test prototypes in their precious collectable. These are developed incrementally by trial and error. I'm an artist not an engineer. I have looked into home injection molding and the example of ones I can afford are not large enough. Making the molds is also a problem, while I can CAD design them I would have to go to my local machine shop to have them made. This is very costly and low on their priority list, I took almost 3 months of waiting to get a muzzle device I designed made, and the first one exploded.

An update on the project:

Mag now fits perfectly with no hand alteration required.
Feed angle is now correct and it feeds without damaging ammo.

The last issue i'm dealing with is, it seems the rounds sit to high up in the mag well causing the rounds to tip up occasionally when the bolt comes back. The next prototype should fix this. Once that's done I'll be printing off a batch for my testers so keep an eye on your PMs.
Link Posted: 10/21/2018 3:13:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2018 3:17:59 PM EST by MickB]
Thanks for the update.
I’m guessing you’re making an anti tilt follower.
The factory Valmet mags had a large lip at the front of the follower that prevented tilt as the bolt came back.

In terms of keeping costs down, would it be possible to adapt Magpul AR followers and regular AR springs in your mag bodies?

Mick
Link Posted: 10/21/2018 4:11:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2018 4:18:42 PM EST by Regal_T-type]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MickB:
I’m guessing you’re making an anti tilt follower.
The factory Valmet mags had a large lip at the front of the follower that prevented tilt as the bolt came back.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MickB:
I’m guessing you’re making an anti tilt follower.
The factory Valmet mags had a large lip at the front of the follower that prevented tilt as the bolt came back.
Yep, my follower effectively controls tilt, from what I can tell the feed lug thing on the bolt catches on the rim of the top cartridge and tips just that one. The plastic i'm using is very slippery and the feed lips have trouble holding that top one down, the next prototype has lower and wider lips to try and find that sweet spot.

Originally Posted By MickB:
In terms of keeping costs down, would it be possible to adapt Magpul AR followers and regular AR springs in your mag bodies?
The secret is out! Yes i'm using a follower design that appears highly derivative of popular poly AR mag followers. The mag also uses standard AR springs. Behold:
Link Posted: 11/30/2018 11:57:04 PM EST
So having an M76 in semi and and a full auto on the way (some year), I have been experimenting with the galil magazines

Standard steel/aluminum mags work just fine, but have way too much play, they enter the well fine, but they have way too much play in them side to side. In a pinch if you did not want to modify magazines you could use them, and they seem to function well. Having said that, I would not rely on them.


Next I experimented with Orlite magazines.
They fit in snug as a bug, and have no side wobble. But you have to insert them just right and that doesn't always happen. There is no way you would be doing fast magazine changes, because it has the opposite problem as the steel magazines. Trying to get them in sometimes is just a pain in the butt. They worked every time but were just a pain in the butt to insert. The angle of both the orlite and steel magazines feed is not exactly right, but they feed reliably every time.


Next is the TAPCO intrafuse magazine part number 16660. Like the other two magazines, there was a feed direction issue, but playing with the dust cover off on all (3) types of magazines, the issue only appeared on the last round of the tapco magzines. The Tapco magazines had a little side to side wobble, but they inserted fast. You could do 'tactical' reloads with these magazines. i was quite impressed. I didn't like the side to side play, but it wasn't as bad as it was with the steel magazines, and you can insert and remove better than the factory magazines. Out of the three, i was really impressed with the Tapco, IMO they do not be modified and will function flawlessly out of the bag. They look similar to what the OP is trying to accomplish. If you have an M76 I would say you can use these without issue
Link Posted: 12/1/2018 12:38:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/1/2018 12:38:37 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 11:05:45 AM EST
Looks like you are getting close to the final design, my Valmet is getting impatient , LOL
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 7:45:44 PM EST
What a great project, my hats off to the OP and entrepreneur extraordinaire.lol.
I am up for testing a mag. I will gladly pay for the shipping back and forth to help the cause.
Please use the arfcom EMAIL system to reach me as the system does not notify me of new IMs for some reason.

Thanks much,
Tall
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 10:03:33 PM EST
Looking good man! I'm very interested in these as there is a M76 in the family. And because you are printing the. Looks like an Ender in the photo. Those little enders work pretty good for the money. What material are you using?

Looking forward to see how it appears works out!
Link Posted: 12/8/2018 12:34:16 AM EST
What kind of printer are you using?
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