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Posted: 11/25/2013 1:19:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/4/2013 3:58:29 PM EST by lighteye67]
I bought an 8X42D POSP for my 23" 7.62X54R VEPR, and long story short, I didn't see or touch it for 8 months. When I finally went to mount it and boresight it this past weekend, the reticle, when boresighted, is at the bottom right, as in at the 4:00 position. Not even remotely useful.

If it was to the left of center, I could shim it. As is, it is a $300 paperweight from Kalinka

I am trying to decide on another way to go, 8X minimum zoom, as my eyes aren't what they used to be. I do have an MI rail like this, so standard scopes are an option...I'm not hung up on sticking with Russian optics.

I am trying to stay under the $200 mark, or if I wander back to POSP land, I can go up to $300. I need to make a decision soon though, as I have a range day next weekend. 800M is the furthest I shoot if that helps. Ruggedness is good, and I am not a fan of having to re-tighten and check rings constantly.

Help me pick one, arfcom.



Link Posted: 11/25/2013 6:22:55 PM EST
I might be misunderstanding your problem with sighting in the POSP, but could it be a problem with your scope rail instead of the scope? If so, you'd have a similar problem with your next scope, whatever it is.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 1:03:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2013 1:03:48 AM EST by lighteye67]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Capta:
I might be misunderstanding your problem with sighting in the POSP, but could it be a problem with your scope rail instead of the scope? If so, you'd have a similar problem with your next scope, whatever it is.
View Quote



When I put the MWI rail on and mount up one of my cheaper optics on the VEPR, it can be boresighted dead center which leads me to believe that it is an issue with the posp scope itself. If I had a boresighter for my Bulgarian '74, I could verify.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 5:07:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2013 5:12:57 AM EST by erwos]
I feel like the OP is not really describing a malfunctioning POSP scope, but rather an expectations mismatch. :)

The way that POSPs work is that the reticle actually gets moved to the POI. This leads to the reticle not always being dead center in the scope... and since your POSP is probably not center line on the rifle due to the side mount it uses, that reticle necessarily needs to be low and right. My own zeroed POSP 8x42 works exactly as you're describing yours, in fact. It took a bit of shooting to get used to and wrap my head around the zeroing process, but the functionality is great.

The MI mount puts the scope on the center line... my gut feeling is that if the OP took a weaver-mounted POSP and put it on the MI mount and zeroed, he'd find the reticle low, but not to the right. Western scopes would perform as expected, I think.

Having said that, I'd urge the OP to give the POSP another try, because I do think it's probably functioning correctly. I'm also not sure I agree that shimming is not an option; if you can push the scope up and to the right, you could probably push the reticle closer to the center.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 8:21:51 AM EST
At the $200 price point, I'd look hard at the Redfield Revolution series. Made in the US by Leupold, with a lifetime warranty. Excellent bang for the buck.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 8:32:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2013 8:33:22 AM EST by lighteye67]
OK...my descriptive skills suck, so I have put together a .jpg that shows what I am seeing. If the circle below is the FOV, the reticle is almost not visible when adjusting it to POI.




This is the 3rd POSP I have owned over the last dozen years. Two of them were on PSLs, but I sadly sold those during a year of unemployment a few years back. I am pretty familiar with zeroing them, as I have done it before on my rifles, as well as helping friends.

The reticle isn't a tad off center, as I could work with that. It's deep in right field.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 9:54:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2013 9:56:21 AM EST by erwos]
Mine is pretty far off to the right, too. Not quite as horrible as what you're showing, but it's definitely not so far off.

When you boresighted your rifle, how far was your target? I'm wondering if perhaps the effect isn't exaggerated because you're not truly zeroed at 100m. But, hey, it might be genuinely defective, too. *shrugs*
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 12:12:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2013 12:15:51 PM EST by avatarhammer]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lighteye67:
OK...my descriptive skills suck, so I have put together a .jpg that shows what I am seeing. If the circle below is the FOV, the reticle is almost not visible when adjusting it to POI.

http://i.imgur.com/tG8wYaT.jpg


This is the 3rd POSP I have owned over the last dozen years. Two of them were on PSLs, but I sadly sold those during a year of unemployment a few years back. I am pretty familiar with zeroing them, as I have done it before on my rifles, as well as helping friends.

The reticle isn't a tad off center, as I could work with that. It's deep in right field.
View Quote



Wow that is off. The fact that it is so low means your rail angles up to much. So far right means you need to shim the mount. A pita for sure but can be done. To shim it you need to take off the clamp, knock out the pins (don't forget the bolts), then see where it needs to be. You may need to oblong the holes and even replace the 4 machine screws. I've found that 10-32 cap screws make a good replacement for the oe metric ones.

I think the 4x scopes are more forgiving as to where the reticle winds up when zero'd. In your case if you really need ~8x get a BP02 low mount for Dragunov/ PSL and follow the advice earlier in the thread. The BP02 is adjustable for windage and elevation (if needed also) and is easier to do than on a PSO mount. Grade 8 10-32 button heads also make a good oe screw replacement here.


Link Posted: 11/26/2013 12:35:15 PM EST
BP-02s are mediocre mounts at best. Far, far better mounts available these days.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 12:50:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
At the $200 price point, I'd look hard at the Redfield Revolution series. Made in the US by Leupold, with a lifetime warranty. Excellent bang for the buck.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
At the $200 price point, I'd look hard at the Redfield Revolution series. Made in the US by Leupold, with a lifetime warranty. Excellent bang for the buck.


I've heard good things about them. Thanks for the suggestion

Originally Posted By erwos:
Mine is pretty far off to the right, too. Not quite as horrible as what you're showing, but it's definitely not so far off.

When you boresighted your rifle, how far was your target? I'm wondering if perhaps the effect isn't exaggerated because you're not truly zeroed at 100m. But, hey, it might be genuinely defective, too. *shrugs*


The house is 60' wide, so roughly 55' I have boresighted all of my rifles in this manner, including the 2 PSLs w/8x POSPs without issue. I just need the ability to get it close enough to get it on paper and can dial it in easily from the lead sled.

Originally Posted By avatarhammer:
Originally Posted By lighteye67:
OK...my descriptive skills suck, so I have put together a .jpg that shows what I am seeing. If the circle below is the FOV, the reticle is almost not visible when adjusting it to POI.

http://i.imgur.com/tG8wYaT.jpg


This is the 3rd POSP I have owned over the last dozen years. Two of them were on PSLs, but I sadly sold those during a year of unemployment a few years back. I am pretty familiar with zeroing them, as I have done it before on my rifles, as well as helping friends.

The reticle isn't a tad off center, as I could work with that. It's deep in right field.



Wow that is off. The fact that it is so low means your rail angles up to much. So far right means you need to shim the mount. A pita for sure but can be done. To shim it you need to take off the clamp, knock out the pins (don't forget the bolts), then see where it needs to be. You may need to oblong the holes and even replace the 4 machine screws. I've found that 10-32 cap screws make a good replacement for the oe metric ones.

I think the 4x scopes are more forgiving as to where the reticle winds up when zero'd. In your case if you really need ~8x get a BP02 low mount for Dragunov/ PSL and follow the advice earlier in the thread. The BP02 is adjustable for windage and elevation (if needed also) and is easier to do than on a PSO mount. Grade 8 10-32 button heads also make a good oe screw replacement here.


The Midwest rail I have appears to be a rock solid low profile centerline mount, and I may go with western glass this time around. I have yet to put a single round through this rifle since I bought it and want to hear the plates ringing the length of the range. Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions so far. I just wish that I had another platform to mount the POSP on before it becomes an actual paperweight on my desk at work.
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 1:44:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
BP-02s are mediocre mounts at best. Far, far better mounts available these days.
View Quote



Correct. but they are also far, far more expensive.
Link Posted: 11/30/2013 9:52:45 AM EST
Just a quick follow up...

I borrowed a posp from a friend, and surprise, surprise...it's the friggin RAIL on my new VEPR. I flipped the rifler, and looked at the mount... the front pin on the base of the mount is hanging in the air


^%$#@!@#$

Molot doesn't reply to emails or phone calls, so I am on my own to repair by replacing the rail at my expense

For a new $800 rifle, this one sure is pissing me off.
Link Posted: 11/30/2013 10:15:57 AM EST
Who is the importer of your rifle? If the rifle is new, you may be able to make a warranty claim.

You'll probably get a better response from the importer rather than trying to contact Molot directly. Doesn't hurt to contact the importer about this issue.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 2:40:34 PM EST
To add to the CF, I acquired an inexpensive 4X LPS TIP2 from J&G.... locks on rock solid perfect, and the boresighting was spot on. The glass is sharp and clear as well., and it is super light. I also tried a friends 8X POSP and it had the same issue mine did...way low and right when boresighted.

Pondering whether to:

A.) Put the Midwest rail on and invest more in a decent piece of glass and relegate the LPS to my Bulgarian '74 and sell the POSP

B.) Take my rifle to a competent smith and have the rail replaced so I can use the $300 POSP

C.) Suck it up and use the 4X LPS and sell the POSP

Not going to be able to hit at the range I was hoping for...my vision is sucky. Getting older blows. 8X magnification is the minimum I was hoping for and needing.

From no options to too many. I wasn't feeling well enough to take it out last weekend, as too much 'shine was consumed on Thanksgiving. I still have an unfired VEPR.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 8:22:35 PM EST
Tagged for my VEPR coming in

Sorry to hear about your troubles OP
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:36:02 AM EST
Any pics of the rail on the rifle? It sounds like you're using an SVD clamp on your 8x (stop pin at front of clamp)? ie the Drag scope in your avatar. You may need an AK clamp that stop at the rear of the rail. Not sure how you got the Romy scope to keep from moving fwd under recoil -- Same SVD clamp as your 8x. If you want to keep the 8X you need to swap clamps and shim, in your case, the rear out and maybe up too (depends on the distance you boresighted it at). PITA due to the bolts (need to oblong the hole to allow outward movement but doable.

Not 100 % sure, but you might be able to keep your Drag clamp if you can drill and put a stop point at the front. Maybe a cap screw? You would get more eye relief with a AK clamp though.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 12:43:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2013 12:44:03 PM EST by lighteye67]
Ok.... here are the pics on imgur:

Link to album

Image 1:The rifle's rail

Image 2:Both scopes side by side

Image 3: The Tips 2 mounted up tight. Not bad for a C note.

Image 4: The Posp...notice it climbing out of the rail. W.T.F. ?

Image 5:The MWI mount...locks up tighter than a Canon safe

Image 6:The mangled UTG rail that I had to take a mallet to to drive off. Yes, that is aluminum shaved off the top in addition to the obvious severe warpage. $25 in the crapper.


Frustration doesn't begin to cover it. Any input appreciated.



:

Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:28:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2013 6:35:23 PM EST by avatarhammer]
When you lock the clamp on the POSP, does it bring the front onto the rail and the stop pin into position behind the stop? If not, I'm thinking take a dremel cutoff wheel and take a little off the top rail side (and front corner if necc) of the stop pin (on your clamp). Your Romy glass seems to sit right so maybe the pin is too fat to let the front of the scope fit the dove-tail and the pin to sit inside the fence.

I don't think the rail on the rifle is bent or the clamp. My money is on the pin being to fat. Don't shorten the pin, just thin it where it don't fit If this is the case and your boresighting was done like this you shouldn't have to do any shimming on the mount to get the reticle in a usable position.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:04:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By avatarhammer:
When you lock the clamp on the POSP, does it bring the front onto the rail and the stop pin into position behind the stop? If not, I'm thinking take a dremel cutoff wheel and take a little off the top rail side (and front corner if necc) of the stop pin (on your clamp). Your Romy glass seems to sit right so maybe the pin is too fat to let the front of the scope fit the dove-tail and the pin to sit inside the fence.

I don't think the rail on the rifle is bent or the clamp. My money is on the pin being to fat. Don't shorten the pin, just thin it where it don't fit If this is the case and your boresighting was done like this you shouldn't have to do any shimming on the mount to get the reticle in a usable position.
View Quote

I took a jeweler's file and slightly flattened the top of the stop pin on the scope base, and it now slides on halfway. After the halfway mark, seizes hard. If I apply enough force, it starts sliding out of the rail at the front and I can't quite see exactly where it's binding.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:14:40 PM EST
You could try marking the contact surfaces with a marking fluid ie dykem. where it rubs off is your interference point.

Compare the backside(inside) of the clamp with your Romy lps. Since it fits it should guide you closer to the problem.

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