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Posted: 10/25/2010 9:42:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2010 9:49:45 AM EDT by mtw1970]
I have a KBI SA85 that I bought back in the day (not the one in the pic, that's a random internet pic). I torn it down and refinished it but I was never really happy with thumbhole stock. I found these guys, AK47world that offer US made replacement wood bits. Since I am embarking on the path to make this more AK-ish, I would like to swap out the barrel to a threaded barrel but still stay 922r compliant.

My questions:
-Have any of you used these parts? Thinking the walnut for a dark look. Blonds may have more fun but brunettes work harder.
-Quick search didn't help but if I wanted to swap out barrels are there any new construction barrels out there?

Thanks,
mike
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 11:20:50 AM EDT
Those Hungarian guns were some of the best made, & I wouldn't swap out the barrel unless you put 1,000,000 rounds through it. Just thread the factory barrel if you must. GARY N4KVE
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 11:37:39 AM EDT
If you swap the barrel out, I hope someone uses it to beat some sense into you. Just thread it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 12:33:34 PM EDT
I appreciate the helpful tips....and the snarky ones as well.

Loved this gun from the day I got it and glad to hear that I shouldn't f*** around with it too much. Much cheaper that way.
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 12:36:58 PM EDT
I have a Hungariam SA85M. Like the posters above stated, don't change anything other than cosmetics. I purchased a stock/grip set from Ironwood Designs in Beech wood for the natural/blonde look of Hungarian AK's. I also sent my barrel off to have it threaded by a pro so that I could put a muzzle brake onto it. Just my 2 cents on which way to go.

Link Posted: 10/25/2010 1:39:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2010 2:03:52 PM EDT by Mak]
All you need for the barrel is a gas block and new FSB. You can use Romanian/East German takeoffs from Apex Gun Parts. Copes may have the parts also. Check the EE here on the site, someone may have them cheaper.

You can easily thread the barrel, a threading die, thread aligning tool (TAT) and handle can be obtained from many sources or rented from dinzagarms.com. No need to replace the barrel. You want take off parts, not new undrilled parts. The crosspin holes have always lined up on ones I have done. http://dinzagarms.com/tools/tools.html

Ironwood Designs has a US made buttstock and pistol grip or you can obtain a Hungarian pistol grip from a different source, maybe Copes Distributing.


While you have the barrel parts removed, replace the Hungarian lower handguard retainer with one from a different country which will allow you to use a wider number of lower handguards. That part runs about $15.00 and both Copes and Apex will have them. Don't forget a cleaning rod.

Here is mine, I put a Bulgarian buttstock on it as Ironwood didn't have any of theirs in production when I did it. You can sell your thumbhole stock on the EE for about $25.00.



Here is one I helped another member do before he blasted and refinished the rifle.




The original handguard retainer does not allow regular unmodified handguards to be used.



Hungarian handguards are smaller in the front.


This type of retainer will allow all other handguards to be used.



another source of FSB

Those US made stocksets you posted a link to appear to be Ironwood Designs stocksets. You can order direct.

If you change out the handguard retainer you can use any countries set if being correct doesn't matter to you and you just want a normal AK setup.

You can even use these.

wood

polymer


Use a Tapco G2 single hook fire control group, US slant brake, US pistol grip and one other US part for your compliance parts under 922(r)

One of the Birch Tapco 3 piece US made sets would work if you change out the handguard retainer.
It would be pretty close to what the rifle originally came with though not exact.
http://www.sportsmans-depot.com/products/TAPCO-AK47-WOODEN-STOCK-SET(BIRCH).html

http://www.tapco.com/timbersmith/tsproducts.php

You might have to shim it a bit, JBWeld putty works well and takes minutes to set. These sets come with a pistol grip screw and nut you will need.



The Bulgarian sets from Apex can be refinished darker. I have a couple extra already done. Cheap way to get a stockset. They came without sling swivels but they can be found on the internet like I did for these.




Link Posted: 10/25/2010 4:49:51 PM EDT
I messed around with my SA85M and now I have it in two possible configurations - takes about ten minutes to swap out the gas tube and forearm. I have not yet bothered to change the gas block and sight, probably never will. That's all original Hungarian wood, too.

Link Posted: 10/25/2010 5:16:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
That's all original Hungarian wood, too.


Got a source to Hungarian wood? I see about one set show up about every year and 50% of them are in bad shape.

Link Posted: 10/26/2010 7:17:58 AM EDT
Who says a blond can't work hard?

Here's a Hungy with Ironwood Design's Beech stock set. Great wood! Just a simple oil finish. File to fit, then sand and finish.



And yes I know the palm swells aren't 'proper". I like them so I ordered the set that way.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 12:19:18 PM EDT
1saxman, Sidecarnutz those are both nice 'blondes'. As I all ready have too many spare, unnecessary parts bought years ago, think I will just go with the Ironwood sets for Hungarians and not muss around with . Now I just need to check with my local gunsmith and see if he can fit a slant flash hider on it and that would finish her out.

Mak not sure I will be pulling the front handguard retainer but will definitely keep that in mind as it would allow me more options for new furniture. Gotta keep it wood, though. Wouldn't want the plastic cracking when I run out of ammo and have to club some one with it.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 1:04:48 PM EDT
If you are replacing the gas block and FSB the handguard retainer just slides of. If you look at mine and the one just above your last post those are ones that have the barrel parts replaced. Taking the FSB off allows you to thread the barrel correctly. If the crosspins come out easy enough then it is a simple job. Threading is simple if you do it right and use thread cutting oil.

The only way to correctly use a slant brake is to thread the barrel 14x1LH metric thread.

http://home.comcast.net/~jfreeman16/Threading_AK_rifle_barrels.htm
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 3:07:30 PM EDT
I have a SAR 1 and an SA85 that I want to thread. Does the FSB have to come off to get the detent spring and the detent for the FSB put in?
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 3:40:45 PM EDT
Looks good! I want to do that to the Hungarian kit I have, but I cant find a pistol grip cap anywhere............


Originally Posted By Sidecarnutz:
Who says a blond can't work hard?

Here's a Hungy with Ironwood Design's Beech stock set. Great wood! Just a simple oil finish. File to fit, then sand and finish.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b155/rgmaund/HungySA85/SA85005.jpg

And yes I know the palm swells aren't 'proper". I like them so I ordered the set that way.


Link Posted: 10/27/2010 11:42:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By UT-ARShooter:
I have a SAR 1 and an SA85 that I want to thread. Does the FSB have to come off to get the detent spring and the detent for the FSB put in?


No, but to get the detent pin in you have to remove at least the front crosspin. If you are removing the front cross pin you might as well remove the rear one also and take the FSB off to thread the barrel easier. Some dies will not thread close enough to the FSB to correctly time the brake without the FSB removed when threading. Some that don't remove the FSB when they thread then end up doing a half-assed job primitive peteing the brake or threads to get their brake to time correctly. If you are taking off the FSB you might just as well spend the minimal cash to get a FSB and gas block so you can mount a cleaning rod on the SA85M.

I was unbanning some SAR rifles so I had the takeoff gas blocks from them that I installed on my short gas system SA85M which had the butchered barrel parts. Didn't need a bayonet lug on the SA85M since it was a short gas tube version. Then I put a bayonet lug gas block on the SAR rifle so it could mount a bayonet.

Link Posted: 10/27/2010 11:54:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyclone:
Looks good! I want to do that to the Hungarian kit I have, but I cant find a pistol grip cap anywhere............


Originally Posted By Sidecarnutz:
Who says a blond can't work hard?

Here's a Hungy with Ironwood Design's Beech stock set. Great wood! Just a simple oil finish. File to fit, then sand and finish.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b155/rgmaund/HungySA85/SA85005.jpg

And yes I know the palm swells aren't 'proper". I like them so I ordered the set that way.




I'm going to send you a link. It shows instock but you will have to verify if it will work.



Link Posted: 10/27/2010 12:33:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mak:
I was unbanning some SAR rifles so I had the takeoff gas blocks from them that I installed on my short gas system SA85M which had the butchered barrel parts. Didn't need a bayonet lug on the SA85M since it was a short gas tube version. Then I put a bayonet lug gas block on the SAR rifle so it could mount a bayonet.

I like where you are going with this. Although the missus might disagree on the necessity/ cost, the 'way-too-cool' factor is pegged at 10!
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 1:14:05 PM EDT
And the plot thickens....

Went home last night, pulled the SA85 out and took some pics (coming soon). I am not sure there is enough barrel to thread a slant brake on and the FSB doesn't look drilled for the necessary pin to hold slant brake. Can I just tap into the FSB or do I need a new one? Also will this Romanian gas block with bayo lug work on my SA85?
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 3:14:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2010 6:16:39 PM EDT by fuatos]
Originally Posted By UT-ARShooter:
I have a SAR 1 and an SA85 that I want to thread. Does the FSB have to come off to get the detent spring and the detent for the FSB put in?


I just threaded my SA85M and my Maadi today. I picked up the tools needed from http://cncwarrior.com, for not too much. It was easier than I thought it would be.

Neither had to have the FSB taken off, but I will fully deban them in the future.

The top rifle is the Maadi (threaded 1/2-28) and the bottom is the SA85M (threaded M14x1LH).







Link Posted: 10/28/2010 5:26:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2010 7:01:23 PM EDT by mtw1970]
Okay, pics long overdue:
SA85 on top black walnut stain (I think) with tung oil finish
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_0995.jpg

Close ups of the thumbhole stock w/ flash and w/out:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_1007.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_1008.jpg

Is there enough barrel to thread a slant brake on?
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_1005.jpg
I guess I would have to tap a hole to pin the brake, yes? Not the SA85, this is the Bulgarian. Got the pics mixed up.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_1003.jpg
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 5:29:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2010 5:31:17 PM EDT by mtw1970]
The receivers are a bit different too: The SA85 is on top and and my Bulgarian milled is below:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/mike_the_wino/ak/IMG_1011.jpg
And yes, one is milled while the other is stamped but specifically how the SA85 has a plate which holds the pistol grip while the Bulgarian's pistol grip screw/ plate/ base was retained.
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 5:45:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2010 6:08:29 PM EDT by fuatos]
Looks like there is plenty of meat on the ends of those barrels. To make sure, you should mic the diameter. The SA85M is a definite. Looks just like mine did. It was very satisfying returning these rifles to their former glory. I felt like I was providing the world a service...
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 6:22:11 PM EDT
fuatos, did you have to put the pin in your FSB or did you buy and install a new one? Because if you look at my pics, I lack that piece. This gun was bought in Cal legal weenie mode in about '91, before the state called them all Assault Weapons.
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 6:45:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mtw1970:
fuatos, did you have to put the pin in your FSB or did you buy and install a new one? Because if you look at my pics, I lack that piece. This gun was bought in Cal legal weenie mode in about '91, before the state called them all Assault Weapons.


That Romanian FSB and gasblock from Apex should work, I obtained some from there.

I didn't know that KBI was importing them as early as 1991 but it makes sense in that Kassnar was importing prebans. If you have to drill the FSB for the detent pin it would make more sense to spend the $14.95 on a new one (take off) that has the hole and the detent pin and spring already installed.

Link Posted: 10/28/2010 7:00:02 PM EDT
Mak I could be wrong about the year. It might have been '92/'93 but no later than that. Apparently I misspoke. Went back and physically looked at my SA85 and the hole for the pin is there, just no pin. I guess I could/ should pull the FSB and make sure it's all good for the pin/ spring and then go ahead and order gas block with bayo while I am at and the Yugo is mostly un-neutered. I have an underfolder I want to put try with 100 rounds or so and to see if its worth the trouble to put on the gun or just go with all new wood and lose the thumbhole.
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 7:11:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fuatos:
Originally Posted By UT-ARShooter:
I have a SAR 1 and an SA85 that I want to thread. Does the FSB have to come off to get the detent spring and the detent for the FSB put in?


I just threaded my SA85M and my Maadi today. I picked up the tools needed from http://cncwarrior.com, for not too much. It was easier than I thought it would be.

Neither had to have the FSB taken off, but I will fully deban them in the future.

The top rifle is the Maadi (threaded 1/2-28) and the bottom is the SA85M (threaded M14x1LH).



From your pics, I am guessing you tapped or drilled out the front pin to the FSB. Is that what you did? Also, I'm kind of a shadetree mechanical guy. Can someone like me thread the barrels? I'd rather save some cash by doing it myself and spend the difference on some optics.

Link Posted: 10/28/2010 7:13:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2010 7:14:51 PM EDT by UT-ARShooter]
Originally Posted By fuatos:
Originally Posted By UT-ARShooter:
I have a SAR 1 and an SA85 that I want to thread. Does the FSB have to come off to get the detent spring and the detent for the FSB put in?


I just threaded my SA85M and my Maadi today. I picked up the tools needed from http://cncwarrior.com, for not too much. It was easier than I thought it would be.

Neither had to have the FSB taken off, but I will fully deban them in the future.

The top rifle is the Maadi (threaded 1/2-28) and the bottom is the SA85M (threaded M14x1LH).



From your pics, I am guessing you tapped or drilled out the front pin to the FSB to get the pin and spring put in it. Is that what you did? Also, I'm kind of a shadetree mechanical guy. Can someone like me thread the barrels? I'd rather save some cash by doing it myself and put the difference towards some optics.

Link Posted: 10/28/2010 7:53:09 PM EDT
I would consider myself a shade tree mechanic too. I know enough to usually get myself in trouble!!! However, I had a good friend give me a hand and he is a real mechanic! Having done it once, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Finding a friend to assist, is a real plus.

Both of my rifles had the hold pre drilled in the front sight base for the muzzle brake detent pin and spring. I ordered the detent pin and spring from cncwarrior for $4. If your front sight base doesn't have the hole pre-drilled, then you might want to pick up a surpls one. If you have one to pattern after, I might try to drill it... It would be a good learning experience and might be able to make it work... If not, you'd have a replacement to use.
Link Posted: 10/28/2010 7:58:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By UT-ARShooter:
Can someone like me thread the barrels? I'd rather save some cash by doing it myself and put the difference towards some optics.




Yes you can thread a barrel if you take your time, use plenty of thread cutting oil, use a thread aligning tool (TAT) and make sure you only cut about a 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn at a time and then back off the die to cut and clear the chips of metal from the threading die. Have the die set to cut shallow threads first, then remove the die and tighten up the screw a bit to cut the threads a bit deeper.

If you turn the die to much before clearing and have the die too tight you risk damaging the die. It is like threading a pipe. You could probably practice doing that to get the hang of it. From start to finish it probably takes 15 minutes the first time you do it.
Link Posted: 10/30/2010 4:05:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2010 4:29:48 PM EDT by mtw1970]
All right....went home last night after much soul searching, and a few beers, I have quashed my innner mall ninja. As such I am going take these guns back to future. No underfolders. Old skool wood from Ironwood but which ones? Thinking laminate maple for the Bulgarian stained Comrade Red, or as close as I can recreate it from what I find at Lowe's, and making the Yugo Hungarian a 'blond'. Beech or birch? Which is most correct?

My bad Mak. Fixed it.
Link Posted: 10/30/2010 4:17:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mtw1970:
and making the Yugo a 'blond'. Beech or birch? Which is most correct?



Yugo? thought you had a Hungarian SA85M? Beech

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