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Posted: 1/3/2003 8:43:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 9:13:48 AM EST
So, when the "tip" turns out to be false, will they give you the "tipsters" name so you can file harrasment charges?
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 9:14:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 9:32:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 9:55:43 AM EST

The mission will be carried out by a task force of county and state police officers, as well as federal agents of the Secret Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.


I wonder if they will be wearing the fashionable "jack boots"?

Rancid Lance

Yea, I'm pissed
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 10:46:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By RotDorn:
heheheheh....
I know this guy, his name is HDR...hehehhehe

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 11:16:10 AM EST
How do the police act on anonymous tips? Since there isn't an emergency now that they've caught the snipers, can they act on these tips? It's been 18 years since my last law class, but I thought anonymous tips could not be used for searches? Can they get warrants based on these tips?
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 11:59:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 2:07:59 PM EST
Good luck getting a warrant on anonymous tips that are several months old.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 2:42:03 PM EST
Depending on the Agency,probable cause is more flexible than the rubber hose they beat people with while they are chained to the floor.Crimes committed against law abiding gun owners by the powers that be can only be addressed after the fact,and then you are guilty until proven innocent.Do you remember,a few years back,the LAPD arrested 3 or 4 Guys for having a shitload of assault weapons and ammo?The media had a field day until the facts came out that everything these Guys had was LEGALLY obtained and NO crimes had been committed prior to the arrest and confiscation of property.Suddenly there was no more story,the media dropped it like a flaming turd and the only victims were the law abiding gun owners.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:00:58 PM EST
Yep, that pissed me off
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 6:13:23 PM EST
I like C Heston's words best.

"From my cold dead hands"!

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 6:36:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tracker:
I like C Heston's words best.

"From my cold dead hands"!




Yeah, how much money do you want to put down that he won't break the law?

themao
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 6:45:14 PM EST
Marylanders, brace yourselves.

And move the hell out of that sh!thole!

CJ
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:03:24 PM EST
No what pisses me off is voting Republican so I can keep my guns and them having them screw up the economy so I get laid off and can’t buy ammo to shoot the guns they let me keep.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:04:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 8:11:52 PM EST by Belloc]
I posted this story on AW earlier today.
www.assaultweb.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=42&t=001439

I blame the people much more than I blame the police. They are the ones who are with a sense of deliberateness giving the police the powers to secure the coming police state. As Ben Franklin said "the more corrupt a people, the more they have need of masters." People are SO corrupt today they WANT masters. I still remember the last episode of "Nightline" before the 9-11 attacks. It was about how obese America was becoming. THAT is a sign of a people who have lost their virtue. The great body of the American people DO NOT want to be left alone. They WANT the State to do whatever it takes to protect them, to take care of their children in State run daycare, to educate them in State run schools, to take care of their health care, to guarantee them jobs, to take care of their retirement. If they lose money in the market they want to government to sue their broker and get it back. If they become obese slobs they want to sue the fast food chains. While we read this story and say, God help us, most of Marylanders are saying "it's about time". It's not those who would mean to be our rulers that scare me, it's that there is now enough historically ignorant jackasses to say, with their vote, "this time, when we consolidate power in government and give up some of our essential liberties for more security, it will be different. Nothing bad will happen."
As Thomas Jefferson wrote, "people have been willing instruments in forging chains for themselves." In the Dec. 23 issue of Time (no, I don't get that liberal rag, it was at the gym) there was a story of 2 "congresswomen" who are sisters. At one point in the interview one of them says that when she came across Rep. John Lewis, author of some book she liked, she said, and I quote, "Oh my God, you're so fabulous!" This is the estrogen laden menopausal monument to juvenile jackass stupidity gun grabbing psycho-bitch that is going to be making the laws that I will have to live under?!! How do I get off this planet full of stupid f_cking idiots! Every "man" who has ever sat in studio on a taping of Oprah should be lined up against a wall! You servile ignorant effeminate spineless half-women! How could even ONE man march with those Million Menopausal Misanthropes?! Those ugly assed lesbian child sacrificing puke-drooling fascist sows! If Ebola wiped out every last jackass politician in Washington these f_cking morons would just elect MORE jackass gun grabbing fascist politicians!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-George Orwell

"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it."
-Robert E. Lee (to Lord Acton regarding the Confederacy's loss and the resulting centralization of power)

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:20:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bang:
No what pisses me off is voting Republican so I can keep my guns and them having them screw up the economy so I get laid off and can’t buy ammo to shoot the guns they let me keep.



How did voting Republican help you keep your guns? Bush supports the high-cap ban.

Furthermore, how did Bush screw up the economy any more than Al Gore would have? He inherited a Federal Reserve created boom-bust with the rapid change in interest rates (and bad loans, etc.). Besides that, Al Gore would start a war just as much as Bush would have, and Gore would have bailed out the airlines too and done everything possible to make sure the economy could not correct itself.

themao
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:55:10 PM EST
Not to mention that the economy lags behind the administration a few years. So this is really all slick-willie's doing.

-FOTBR
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 9:24:34 PM EST
All I know is when the Republicans are in office the company's I worked for ende up laying people off.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 11:09:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
Not to mention that the economy lags behind the administration a few years. So this is really all slick-willie's doing.



It's not even Slick Willie's fault. He doesn't control the Federal Reserve. He raised taxes once, and that's about it. Not much got done during his administration to be frank (domestic laws and regulations). The Republicans blocked everything he did, which I guess is a good thing about "deadlock", since no new laws got passed. I know, I know, you're response is that they couldn't repeal the AWB of 94, but I don't think Bush will do that either given his obsession with catering to minority groups whom are all socialists.

Bang: You got laid off, and that sucks. If anything, blame the entire federal government for the regulations imposed upon businesses that increase labor and manufacturing costs for your employer. Hell, take FICA taxes for instance. Your employer has to MATCH the taxes that come out of your "salary". In other words, you get stiffed double, in the sense that you would be paid the FICA fee + the matching fee otherwise. Think of all the ammo you could buy with that. Don't even get me started on the fraud of social security. Would you give someone your money for retirement if you knew they'd spend it all instantly?

Regardless of who's in office, they all suck. I say let's get 30 million bad ass Americans like Campy and RotDorn, and let's take over Argentina.

themao
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 12:33:55 AM EST
I gotta agree with Belloc here. Some of the eastern coast states love the idea of the government controling every aspect of their lives. They never even stop to questions any new legislation. Pretty sad if you ask me.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 5:38:36 AM EST
mao I`m with you!
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:04:34 AM EST
Economies are INFLUENCED by governmental decisions, but they are DRIVEN by the simple act of buying and selling. If you tighten your belt and stop spending, the people and companies that don't get your money have to respond by tightening THEIR belts. If you want to improve the economy, hire somebody or make an impulse buy!

Blaming governments for economic difficulties is not always fair or reasonable. It wasn't the government that caused people to stop spending money on 9-11, it was the people themselves.

That being said, large scale economic trends take years to run their courses. If the economy is bad now, blame the Clinton years, at least in part. It's not ALL our Republican led government's fault. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

CJ

Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:50:52 AM EST
Themao, I know that C Heston would not break the law because he is a law abiding citizen as we are.
You have to admit that the phrase "From my cold dead hands" is a very powerful statement.

It just scares me to think that the government is wanting the public to turn in their neighbors.

This community (AR, AK, FAL, etc.) will be branded as extreemist by the "antie's" since they do not understand our passion of firearms.

The Republicans is the lessor of two evils when it comes to gun laws. Hell they are caving in on way too many PC issues. They have already forgotten that they kicked the Democrat's asses recently.

Oh well just more BS polotics as usual.

Argentina aint sounding all that bad!
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:56:25 AM EST
Ya I'm pissed but I'm worried as well. Being that I'm from PA and we have a new govna' , I'm just waiting for the STHTF with B.S. laws and bans like Phili. God help us all.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 8:24:00 AM EST
Themao, sounds good to me where do I sign up?
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 9:13:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By 223spree:
mao I`m with you!

Link Posted: 1/4/2003 10:14:11 AM EST
Then we could start a couple day war with the U.S., let them bomb us. Then we surrender and they give us economic aide so we can buy more guns and ammo! No stinkin’ assault weapons ban in our country!!! heavy.gif
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 11:07:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bang:
Then we could start a couple day war with the U.S., let them bomb us. Then we surrender and they give us economic aide so we can buy more guns and ammo! No stinkin’ assault weapons ban in our country!!!



That's a dumb idea, because then they'll impose the Marshall Plan on you. You'll be like Japan or Germany, and put up with a centralized bureaucy in accordance to Keynesian and Chicago School Economics. Bad stuff I tell you. Those guys are worse than the communists. Keynes, who is considered the most influential economist of the 20th century, wrote back in 1936 that he considered Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union to be the perfect implementation of his ideas. Yet, most mainstream Nobel Prize winners in economics today still like Keynes and the extension of his ideas of central planning. This is what is taught in price theory and macroeconomic classes throughout our major universities. Paul Samulson, a Nobel winner, wrote up until 1989 that the Soviet economy was a success. This is why we're messed up folks (besides the lawyers), and these are the people that run the Federal Reserve board and the think tanks in Washington DC that approve or come up with SEC or economic regulatory laws.

cmjohnson: You gave the Austrian definition of what economics is. The study of human action/interaction in the buying, selling and trading of goods and services. Unfortunately in this country, governmentomics is what applies. If you started a business, you would see the crippling level of regulations, taxes, etc. that are imposed upon businesses by the state. All of this is done in the name of "correcting market imperfections" or "social justice", namely they would call it back in the 1930s central planning (Stalin, Hitler, etc.).

The point is, the government has a tremendous sway on our economy, and this cannot be ignored. There are several things that could be eliminated in terms of federal regulations that would go a long way to helping the economy. People were tightening their pocket books long before 9/11. The Federal Reserve put the federal funds rate ridicuosly low around 1997-98, and thousands of bad loans were handed out at ridicuosly low interest rates. Thus, when they were raised to 6.5%, it choked the line of credit to these companies on NASDAQ who were living day to day on loans.

It also turns out that the so called "technology boom" affected less than 10% of the economy. With investor confidence riding on a wave of mass speculation and little to no profit, it's no wonder the market tanked.

I actually laugh at people shocked about Enron and World Com, when these two companies were issuing B and C level bonds back in 1997. Not good for a "blue chip" firm. I mean, World Com was using their stock rather than cash to pay off people and then some (I'm not just talking about investors like me and you. I'm talking about company to company deals and loans). A real company posts a legit profit and pays dividends, or at least they show legitmate value and gains like Microsoft does.

Boy, my Argentina idea is picking up, isn't it? Free market and private banking.

themao
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 12:54:37 PM EST
May I also add that Argentina is well known for their high quality beef.

Free market, FREE BEEF, and private banking!

Mmmmmmmm Yummy Beef.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 1:13:25 PM EST
Outstanding! At least ONE other Austian on the forums.
www.mises.org/
A great site to begin one's Austrian education.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 1:46:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By RotDorn:
2 words for you my friend...Project Exile! Happening in their backyard!, Wayne wants you to "drop a dime...stop a crime!"

The NRA’s current management says that "Project Exile" is aimed at convicting violent felons. But of course these laws can be—and will be—used against any citizen who breaks them. "Project Exile" demands enforcement, with Zero Tolerance and minimum 5-year prison terms, of current federal laws enforceable against any American man or woman who, for example:

attaches a +2 extension to a "post-ban" Glock pistol magazine
attaches a flash suppresser, folding stock, or bayonet lug to a "post ban" militia rifle
accidentally carries a concealed weapon (with state "license" or not) into a federally prohibited area
drives to another state to give a family member (even a son or a granddaughter) a handgun without going through the instant check registration scheme
possesses a gun while subject to a restraining order, regardless of the absence of violence, and without a trial or any legal adversarial process having taken place
commits ANY minor infraction of ANY unconstitutional federal gun law



The Project Exile that goes on here in VA is designed to affect felons caught with guns. It was set up that anytime a felon was caught with a gun it would be refered to Federal Prosecutors so they could be prosecuted for violating federal law. Instead of just getting rid of the gun charge for a guilty plea on another charge.

I haven't seen anything that stated that a larger project exile would be put into place to cover anyone caught with a gun.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 4:02:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Belloc:
Outstanding! At least ONE other Austian on the forums.
www.mises.org/
A great site to begin one's Austrian education.



You want to know the funny part, they don't ever talk about this stuff in Austria unless you are doing master or doctorate level education. I never heard of these people until I came here.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 4:07:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2003 4:07:31 PM EST by RotDorn]
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:02:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: The Project Exile that goes on here in VA is designed to affect felons caught with guns. It was set up that anytime a felon was caught with a gun it would be refered to Federal Prosecutors so they could be prosecuted for violating federal law. Instead of just getting rid of the gun charge for a guilty plea on another charge.

I haven't seen anything that stated that a larger project exile would be put into place to cover anyone caught with a gun.



Perhaps because it's an embarassment to the NRA. It's another concession they gave out to the Clinton administration so that our "freedoms" would be protected. A felony is a felony, and with all the arcane laws on the books, I put $$$$ down that they could turn any one of us into the next Chief Thunder given the time and effort, even if you did break no law.

Why do you think all these companies were crapping in their pants during the Enron and Global Crossing scandals? SEC laws are so damned vague, those pricks could walk into your business and determine the minor technicality as "illegal" and shut you down over night. "Insider trading" be damned. You can get away with it when you have the right lawyers and politicians on your side, even if it is a non-crime if you think about it.

themao
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:03:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Belloc:
Outstanding! At least ONE other Austian on the forums.
www.mises.org/
A great site to begin one's Austrian education.



Besides hanging with obershutze916 of course.

themao
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:05:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916: You want to know the funny part, they don't ever talk about this stuff in Austria unless you are doing master or doctorate level education. I never heard of these people until I came here.


They don't talk about Mises and Rothbard at most institutions even on that level. In Austrian and Germany, Keynesian based economics dominates academic circles....the Frankfurt School is what it was called, despite the school's love for communism (Stalin) and Hitler.

themao
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 8:32:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:

Originally Posted By Belloc:
Outstanding! At least ONE other Austian on the forums.
www.mises.org/
A great site to begin one's Austrian education.



You want to know the funny part, they don't ever talk about this stuff in Austria unless you are doing master or doctorate level education. I never heard of these people until I came here.



No joke. I was there in November. It's amazing, there ARE no "Austrians" IN Austria. Well, everyday I wake up I find there are fewer and fewer Americans in America, so it seems to be a trend.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 5:38:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By themao:
Perhaps because it's an embarassment to the NRA. It's another concession they gave out to the Clinton administration so that our "freedoms" would be protected. A felony is a felony, and with all the arcane laws on the books, I put $$$$ down that they could turn any one of us into the next Chief Thunder given the time and effort, even if you did break no law.

Why do you think all these companies were crapping in their pants during the Enron and Global Crossing scandals? SEC laws are so damned vague, those pricks could walk into your business and determine the minor technicality as "illegal" and shut you down over night. "Insider trading" be damned. You can get away with it when you have the right lawyers and politicians on your side, even if it is a non-crime if you think about it.

themao



I understand what you are saying in regards to the government making you a felon if they feel like it.

The original project exile that started in Richmond, VA was only covering previously convicted felons caught with guns. It was not meant to include other style crimes. I haven't heard where this concept has changed at least here in VA. Also I am unware of a more sweeping program that is being spread around the country.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 10:22:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2003 10:24:26 AM EST by themao]
Why is a felon caught with a gun any worse than a felon caught with a knife? It's a stupid idea. Let's assume I'm talking about real felons. The kind that try to rob banks or lawyers that sue companies for ridiculous sums of money , not Randy Weaver with an unregistered short barreled shotgun. So if someone broke into your home with a bat vs. a gun, why in the hell should they be treated any differently? Either way, Mullah mao would have them pressed to death with stones.

Project exile targets a particular kind of crime, more or less the possession of a certain inanimate object: A GUN. The crime is politicized to that of the possession of a gun, not the act itself. This is similar to hate crime laws, in the sense that a black man being dragged to death by the KKK is more significant than say a white woman being raped and murdered by a gang of black men. A crime is a crime, and all the state is doing is creating another crime, having a gun namely. It does nothing to serve "justice" to the victims of these crimes. It's strictly for federal power and political gains by politicians and judges.

Now, open up a list of federal regulations with all the "felonies" listed, and see if such B.S. could be used against you. Look at Chief Thunder. It's case in point, project exile or no project exile.

themao
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 11:14:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2003 11:15:24 AM EST by obershutze916]



You want to know the funny part, they don't ever talk about this stuff in Austria unless you are doing master or doctorate level education. I never heard of these people until I came here.




No joke. I was there in November. It's amazing, there ARE no "Austrians" IN Austria. Well, everyday I wake up I find there are fewer and fewer Americans in America, so it seems to be a trend.


Yeah, I know, the place is crawling with Americans any more. We got rid of the Russians only to have American tourists over-run the place. Maybe we should have it sprayed.
(I notice more Turks there than other foreigners)

Where did you go when you were there?
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 12:15:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2003 12:23:09 PM EST by Belloc]

Originally Posted By obershutze916:


Yeah, I know, the place is crawling with Americans any more. We got rid of the Russians only to have American tourists over-run the place. Maybe we should have it sprayed.
(I notice more Turks there than other foreigners)

Where did you go when you were there?



I was in Wein (or is it Wien?) for the Leopold-Fest. Two things I hated about the place, all the Soviet era buildings interwoven with all the magnificent old baroque architecture, and the grotesque fascination with all things American. As I walked one carnival just outside Vienna everything was ornimated with "Baywatch", cowboy hats, Jeeps, etc., with rap music blaring over the speakers. Blech!
I did get to see the crown of The Holy Roman Empire and attend Mass in the Royal boxes at the Stift in Klosternueberg which was sublime despite my intrinsic disgust with everything Norvus Ordo (which ANYONE would develop after a jaunt to Melk after seeing one of the most incredible high alters in the world ignored for some "Brady Bunch" Norvus Ordo abomination) Bring back the monarchy I say. And bomb the living sh_t out of the "Karl Marx Building"! Double Blech!
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 3:58:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By themao:
Why is a felon caught with a gun any worse than a felon caught with a knife? It's a stupid idea. Let's assume I'm talking about real felons. The kind that try to rob banks or lawyers that sue companies for ridiculous sums of money , not Randy Weaver with an unregistered short barreled shotgun. So if someone broke into your home with a bat vs. a gun, why in the hell should they be treated any differently? Either way, Mullah mao would have them pressed to death with stones.



I am not saying that a felon with a weapon shouldn't be treated differently due to the weapon. I am saying that Project Exile was designed to make the powers at be enforce the law as it is written. Which in turn should help reduce the crime rates committed with guns. It has supposedly helped here in Richmond, VA.

Project exile targets a particular kind of crime, more or less the possession of a certain inanimate object: A GUN. The crime is politicized to that of the possession of a gun, not the act itself. This is similar to hate crime laws, in the sense that a black man being dragged to death by the KKK is more significant than say a white woman being raped and murdered by a gang of black men. A crime is a crime, and all the state is doing is creating another crime, having a gun namely. It does nothing to serve "justice" to the victims of these crimes. It's strictly for federal power and political gains by politicians and judges.

The state hasn't created another crime with this project because the law against felons being in possession of a gun already existed. It is just enforcing the laws already on the books.

Now, open up a list of federal regulations with all the "felonies" listed, and see if such B.S. could be used against you. Look at Chief Thunder. It's case in point, project exile or no project exile.

I couldn't agree more with you. They make up newer and more ridiculous laws every year. Eventually we will probably be all made felons for one reason or another. I can't comment on the Chief's case because I don't know all the facts about it.

I will say that even though we may not agree with most of the ridiculous gun laws that affect us, it doesn't mean that we are exempt from them. We all make our own decisions on which stupid gun laws we think are necessary to obey. If someone decides to play the game and ignore certain laws, then they also have to expect to pay the price of playing that game every now and then.

Link Posted: 1/7/2003 1:08:37 PM EST
Belloc, it's Wien. As sad as that sounds, the city is like that. Once you see the great buildings of the past empire, you have seen all you need to see of the city. It is like a liberal college town. All views are welcome and are openly expressed. Shit like that would never happen down south where I was raised. The differences between north and south are as big there as they are here. I would like to bring back the monarchy, but it was the monarchy that destroyed the country.

As for the topic of this thread, I think the NRA and the exile program was an attempt to show that if you get fellons off the street and put them in jail where they belong, crime will go down.

It is easy for any governing body to take this to its logical extreeme. The NRA would look bad if they opposed thier own idea, and slowly get lead down a path they did not want to follow.

The concept is a good one, but political gain will destroy the bst of intentions. I can't argue with the idea that criminals should be in jail for their crimes, butit must be ballanced with fair and just laws. How many of you have something illegal? How many of us have something and do not even know it. Gun laws are so hard to figure out anymore it is idiotic. We keep saying "just enforce the laws on the books". Be carefull what you ask for!

Is what they are doing with the "tips" right? Yeah, maybe in the nighmares of George Orwell or Stalinist Russia, but it is a price that every gun owner will have to pay at some point. The people who do not obey the law to register know they are commiting a crime. I do not blame them, and would do the same, but you must take steps to protect yourself in this event, and accept what will happen if you are cought. (Hell, my wife doesn't even know the location of 95% of my firearms.)

Resistance to unjust laws, in my book is a right, but you must be prepared for the consequences.
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