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Posted: 8/26/2004 7:40:25 AM EST
OK guys, I know SKS rifles, but nothing about AK variants, but stumbled across a nice Mak-90 in 223 in nearly new condition in a pawn shop for 375 bucks with 1 30rd mag.

Again, it is in excellent shape, actually, it looks like it has never been fired. Blonde wood and a new-looking green Chinese sling. I did not get any markings from it, when I was at the shop (I wouldn't know what to look for, anyways).

I was thinking about picking this one up, if I hear good things about them. I really wanted an AK variant in 7.62x39, but this one looks SO much better than the Romanian ones for similar prices and I thought the Norinco AKs were good quality.

Soo...is this worth it? Are the 223 AKs good shooters? Reliable? Troublesome? Is the 223 caliber rare? I have never seen one in 223 before? Is it considerd "not cool" to have an AK that is not in the 7.62 caliber? Are mags for the 223 hard to find or expensive?

Thanks in advance for the input - this wil be my first AK variant (maybe) if the input is good. Looks like a fun play-around rifle and better built than the questionable SAR and WASR AK variants I have looked at letely. Ammo would be cheap, too.

- Volvoguy
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 7:55:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 8:06:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 9:40:47 AM EST
Thanks for the reply.

I do not see very many 223 AKs around here, so this thing is not very common. It is in immaculate shape and has the Norinco arrow logo on it, not Polytech.

How hard are the Norinco mags to find? How expensive are they? I figure the ease in finding ammo and cost of ammo might negate the extra cost for a couple of mags.

Besides, the Romo AKs I have loked at are very rough and have canted sights and might have trigger slap issues...that has to be factored into the cost of a Romo WASR or SAR vs. the Norinco Mak-90. The fit and finish on the Chinese piece is ten times better than the best Romo I have come across.

I might be able to talk the guy down to 350 or 325...is that a good price for a nearly new Norinco Mak-90 223?

- Volvoguy
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 10:29:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:56:10 AM EST
Correction! (I feel stupid!)

I went by the shop, while out running an errand. I wanted to look at it again (hell...the shop is near the end of my office's street - why not look again before money changes hands?).

The rifle says NHM-90 on the receiver but was made by Norinco. it also has what I think is a walnut stock, though very light and it has a black buttplate that says "Bishop" on it. the bluing is really nice...its not parked like some AKs it is definately a nice hot bluing.

The muzzle is definately threaded, as I was able to unscrew the sleeve on the end that is maybe 1 -1 1/2" long. Its not a suppressor, but just a solid cylinder. Can I screw on a muzzle break?

So...is this NOT a Mak-90? What does the NHM-90 mean? I thought all of these Norincos with the thumbhole stocks were Mak-90s, but it does NOT say Mak-90 on it anywhere. Whatever it is...it is well put together and in excellent shape.

He said he'd take 350 for it. Worth it?

Volvoguy
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:18:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:22:04 PM EST
Second opinion, If you don't buy it...can you tell me where the shop is?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:23:50 PM EST
Yes, it has the Bishop thumbhole stock on it. It is pretty well finished and well made and fairly comfortable to hold, unlike some other thinker thumbhole stocks I have tried.

can I fit this with a regular pistol grip and straight stock? I live about 5 miles from Arsenal USA and can get nice wood for cheap...and fast from these guys. Would it fit? More importantly...is is legal? I have looked at the rules on what is and is not legal for AKs and its about as confusing as our tax code!

Thanks...I think I am picking this one up!

Volvoguy
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:30:00 PM EST
If eric doesn't reply. I have two ak's of chinese descent. Both have choate stocks on them. In all my study, I have not ever seen anything that absolutely would not go on. You may have to file a bit.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:34:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:05:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 1:06:09 PM EST by I-M-A-WMD]
I don't know much on the NHM models, but does the T-Hole stock overlap the receiver? I ask this because the receiver may have an angled cut at the rear of it. This isn't a complete disaster if it does have the angled cut receiver. IIRC, you can get wood that will fit it and give it the "Correct look" for the most part, but the straight receiver is most desirable. The rear of the receiver should be 90 degrees. (Hopefully it is)

$350 for it seems like a good price. Around my neck of the woods the Chicoms w/ T-Hole in 223 run +/- $600.

Sly
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:55:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 1:56:53 PM EST by dragunov]
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:43:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 12:49:20 AM EST by Adena65]

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:
I don't know much on the NHM models, but does the T-Hole stock overlap the receiver?



I've only seen a handful of NHM rifles with the MAK90 overlapping t-hole buttstock, I think 99% of those were done after the purchase. The owner's manuals for the NHM90 and NHM91 show the correct Bishop/Boyds US made thumbhole stocks. Here's a pic of a typical NHM90 as shown on JA545's post-ban AK website.



(pic hosted at image shack) JA's post-ban Chinese AK page: mywebpages.comcast.net/jfreeman.246/page_2.htm

I've had 2 of the 5.56 NHM's, dandy rifles. Come Sept. 14 I'm threading on a flash hider!
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:05:10 AM EST
Holy crap!

It looks EXACTLY like that!

For 350 bucks...is this a good deal? Are they as reliable as the 7.62mm AKs?

How about accuracy? It is pretty much a rule that the 223 is a more accurate round than the 7.62x39...are the 223 AKs more accurate? It would seem to me that the 223 AK is the best of both worlds - the reliability of the AK platform with the long range accuracy and low recoil of the M-16's round. Am I right to assume this?

Thanks...this first AK purchase has got me pumped!

Volvoguy
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:21:40 AM EST
Volvoguy,

I understand that you're not too fond of the SAR in .223 (I have one and it's a great shooter), but have you considered looking into the Weiger mags that are made for it? I have eight of them and they work just great (all AR mags should work so good). A search on the AK-47 forum (Romanian) should provide a link to the company that I bought them from at $15 per.

BTW, you should buy that rifle.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:40:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 6:40:43 AM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

Originally Posted By Adena65:

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:
I don't know much on the NHM models, but does the T-Hole stock overlap the receiver?



I've only seen a handful of NHM rifles with the MAK90 overlapping t-hole buttstock, I think 99% of those were done after the purchase. The owner's manuals for the NHM90 and NHM91 show the correct Bishop/Boyds US made thumbhole stocks. Here's a pic of a typical NHM90 as shown on JA545's post-ban AK website.



Thanks for the pic Adena65! Clears things right up.

Am I correct that the NHM was a 84S that was neutered and renamed the NHM? I ask because one of the rifles in my local shop isn't stamped NHM, it still has the 84S stamped on the front trunion. While the others seem to have 84S stamped over with 3 Xs.


By Volvoguy: For 350 bucks...is this a good deal?


The shop here in town that has 2 or 3 of them look exactly like the one pictured. The price is +/- $600. I would definately snag one @ $350.

Sly
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:58:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Volvoguy:
Holy crap!

It looks EXACTLY like that!

For 350 bucks...is this a good deal? Are they as reliable as the 7.62mm AKs?

How about accuracy? It is pretty much a rule that the 223 is a more accurate round than the 7.62x39...are the 223 AKs more accurate? It would seem to me that the 223 AK is the best of both worlds - the reliability of the AK platform with the long range accuracy and low recoil of the M-16's round. Am I right to assume this?

Thanks...this first AK purchase has got me pumped!

Volvoguy



Yeah, I'd be all over it for $350. Sure, every now and again someone posts the bargain they got for less...I'll put it this way: I bought $200 MAK90's, paid like $235 for a milled instead of a stamped .223 for the same price, (big mistake since I couldn't swap the stock on the milled rifle). I paid $360 for my first NHM90 .223 in 1996, dealer bought a handful and gave me a call. I didn't hesitate to pay it and I've had no regrets. The mag availability is the biggest drawback but I really don't mind, they come up on the gun boards frequently. The lower recoil is nice and the accuracy is good. Reliabilty has been 100% with the exception of some Hirtenberger SS109.( extraction pulled the heads of the cases off! Only tried 2 rounds before giving up on that plan, I wasn't out much $) The rifle should have a spring loaded firing pin which is a plus for shooting domestic commercial loads, I haven't had any problems with domestic hunting loads and they're definitely a nod better than Wolf. For dumping mags and having fun the way I like to, Wolf is a perfect compromise though, it just doesn't get any cheaper.

I-M-A-WMD, as far as I know the NHM's are indeed neutered 84s rifles. Unlike the MAK's I've owned the cleaning rod guide is still visible under the gas block where they cut of the lug. The area on the trunnion where 84s used to be was ground off and re-stamped NHM90. The hooded front sight is opened up similar to an AKM yet shows definite signs of being fully hooded at one point. There's also a spot on the receiver that's been ground, and I can see the spot where the cleaning rod retainer was ground off. Don't know if I can get all the details to show, but I could try to shoot some comparison pics between an NHM and an 84s. If they come out decent and I can get them resized down well enough I'll post a couple. Probably ought to do an NHM91 too, as the front sight is definitely more AKM-like.

Regardless, $350 is probably as good a price you'll find. If you want a 5.56 AK, jump, you can bet you're not the only interested party.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:48:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 6:56:45 AM EST by JA545]
First off there is no such thing as a Norinco or Poly Tech made rifle or factories.
Both are just companies set by the Chinese govt. to export chinese goods. There names stamped on rifles should be considered more of a brand name than anything else. Just like the same way that Sears,Roebuck & Co. sold Sears and JC Higgens brand firearms. They never made any firearms but had them made for them by firearm mfg. companies.
www.nti.org/db/china/baoli.htm
www.nti.org/db/china/norinco.htm
All NHM-90 rifles were pre ban rifles that were modified to post ban specs when imported. There were two types of 5.56x45mm chambered rifles. The 84s and 84s-1. The 84s rifles were fixed stock rifles that had thumbhole stocks added . The stocks were US made by Bishop or Boyd of hackberry wood. The 84s-1 rifles had underfolding stocks that were removed and a Chinese thumbhole stock added. The reason the Bishop or Boyd stocks were not used on this model was the back of the receiver is closed with a steel plate. The holes in the sides of the reciever where the underfolding stock was removed were covered with stamped steel plates riveted togeather. Most all of these rifles had the 84s(-1) ground off the trunion and had NHM-90 stamped there.
The "Chinese Rifles" page of my web pages has pics of both types of NHM-90 rifles receivers and stocks.

mywebpages.comcast.net/jfreeman246/index.htm
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:58:32 AM EST
Volvoguy,
Please don''t buy this fine riflepiece of crap. Post the shop's name so I can drive a couple of hours to go buy itcomplain to them about offering this to the general public.
No, really.
Leroy
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