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Posted: 10/19/2003 6:27:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Its all black market dude. Common in Europe.
Not to mention Russian SVDs are not allowed for import. The US Gov't has an agreement with the Russians. THe Czechs dont make SVDs. Also if you look at the rest of his stock list, its almost all Russian or Bulgarian made stuff. Also, he is overseas. The US importer (who has to be in the US)would have to file an import permit (form 6). Once this comes back approved, the importer can import then weapon. Just because the guy sends the stuff to the US without problem doesnt make it legal. Allot of European dealers will happily drop MG receivers and suppressors in the mail. Legal for them, and as long as the get paid they dont care what happens. You cant just mail order guns from overseas. Legally anyways. I think its some sort of scam. |
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Posted: 10/19/2003 10:44:30 AM EDT
[#2]
It does sound way too good to be true.
If they were able to do this and the guy has "employees in warehouses," why hasn’t he made arrangements with an importer and shipped over crates full of them. Not like they wouldn’t be able to sell them. J |
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Posted: 10/19/2003 10:59:51 AM EDT
[#3]
I would rather you give your money to a girl in truck stop parking lot...........at least you could see who was screwing you then. BLACK MARKET bad bad stay away. That information was for fun only!!!! Do you rember the movie midnight express.. I used to get excited when I got e-mails like that but now I know to good to be true.
Ken RSA |
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Posted: 10/19/2003 11:08:19 AM EDT
[#4]
I have a few friends in Nigeria (none of whom I know) that keep e-mailing me that they are so eager to transfer billions of US$ into my bank account. They just need a few thousand to complete the paperwork or whatever. I never got may lazy ass to actually have them wire the money to my account, but if you're interested, all you'd need to do is to give them your bank account number, credit card number, copy of your passport, social security number, your mother's maiden name, a copy of your birth certificate and a few other things. And, almost forgot, wire a few thousand dollars to their bank account somewhere. And you're all set. BTW, I'm sure they can help you out with an SVD.
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Posted: 10/19/2003 11:19:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Ever get the feeling that there needs to be an astrisk next to "land of the free" in the national anthem? Our freedom is beginning to look less genuine to me than my bank's so-called "free checking" |
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Posted: 10/19/2003 11:29:27 AM EDT
[#6]
do what you want.....but just know this, having a weapon coming in on the "sly" without any paperwork, will more then likely get you a room next to "chief thunder" (ken baranski).
then there is possibility that it's all a con, you send them money, you don't get anything. what are you going to do then? file a report against this guy..."I sent this guy in checkoslavakia, half the money for a SVD rifle I wanted him to smuggle to me, and he didn't send it". come on now that's like a crack whore complaining to the cops she got ripped off becuse the stuff wasn't crack. if you want a SVD, the closest you'll come to one is getting a TIGER. they can be had for around 1,000 bucks or so, and you won't end up spending thousands upon thousands of dollars in legal fees, trying to keep your ass out of federal prison. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 4:36:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Just ask yourself 1 question...
....does you want to be the husband or wife when you get to prison! STAY AWAY.....SCAM!!! or Trap! |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 4:36:37 AM EDT
[#8]
I sold my Russian SVD just over a year ago on gunbroker. What exactly is a SVD Mod: PSO 1 ? I assume PSO 1 refers to the PSO 1 scope that is standard equipment on every SVD? I'll have to say that sounds like a scam. I know the price will be outrageous but have you tried a WTB on strumgewehr.com? I guarantee somebody will email you with one for sale. Expect a asking price of between $5,500 - $7,000 for a Russian SVD. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 5:04:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Not to mention Russian SVDs are not allowed for import. The US Gov't has an agreement with the Russians.
the RUSSIANS have a trade agreement with the usa whereby they AGREE not to import arm in military configuration into the united states. look at the saiga and vepr...it hasn't stopped the import of the ak and rpk. ANYONE ELSE, other than russia can TRY and get a form 06 with russian arms on it thru the state department. only the RUSSIANS have agreed not to import their own stuff. that trade agreement does not affect the spanish or the czechs. still, given the $1000 minimum order, i would pass. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 5:32:11 AM EDT
[#10]
I think the proper modern prison lingo is Pitcher or Catcher. I'll let you guys figure that one out. 
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Posted: 10/20/2003 6:00:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Have you considered a Chinese NDM-86? Very nice, plus Russian stock sets are fairly easy to find nowadays, you can make it look "Russian" with no problems. Far cheaper route to take, with absolutely zero loss of accuracy. Plus you can also get an NDM in .308. My NDM shoots every bit as well as my Russian SVD ever did. The Russian is almost too nice $$$$ to shoot. I had to take precautions for the little dings an SVD gets around the ejection port. It was dam nerve racketing!
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Posted: 10/20/2003 7:33:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Campybob-
Its an agreement with the Russians, but also prevents importation from a 3rd country. I have asked the ATF import branch. I asked, as the SVD is availible on the German commercial market. Called a Tiger, but it has the SVD length barrel and stock set. Plus for cheaper then $1500. Then I can sell my original military SVD for some big money. If it was possible to import them from a 3rd country, you bet someone would be doing it. The VEPR and Saiga are importable because of this agreement. The ATF has a list of firearms that are importable from Russia. The Saiga and VEPR are on it by name. And then only in certain configurations, as the Russians also make assault models. I have written allot of letters to the ATF import branch on stuff in the last five years. I would like to think I am knowledgeable on the subject of importing military related firearms. Sadly, theres no free lunch. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 7:45:53 AM EDT
[#13]
How could the Yeltsin-Clinton agreement stop the importation of rifles from a 3rd party? When the agreement was signed the Warsaw Pact and even the Soviet Union had already broken up. Yeltsin would have had zero authority to make deals for the other Eastern Block nations. My example is Bulgaria. How many thousands of Bulgarian AK47+74 kits have been imported since the ban? I have one in my closet. Unless you are talking about only Russian made weapons. Then I will have to agree with you. Otherwise everybody would just import their Russian rifles from another ex-eastern block nation. The Russians call their hunting SVD the TIGR. Thanks
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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:08:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Unless you are talking about only Russian made weapons.
that is the case. and only russian firearms in MILITARY configuration, at that. however, i can find nothing that would preclude an 'end-around' from a 3rd country...AS LONG AS the firearm were otherwise legally importable. a dragunov, IF built in germany or austria or even bulgaria, would be a legally importable firearm. the state department MAY be squelching the importation of russian firearms from 3rd party countries, but i can find no law against importing an otherwise legal drag thru 3rd parties and an approved form 06. of course, i still cannot comprehend 'why' a tigr can't be sold here, yet the yugo m76, romaniam psl/fpk and other semi-auto 'accuracy' imports can. when i get home, i'll look up the text of that trade AGREEMENT again. perhaps there is some clue in it. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:30:29 AM EDT
[#15]
This has been talked about over and over on the SVD Discussions board. I think it is just an ATF or State Department policy. I think we are both 100% correct. The Yeltsen+Clinton agreement should have nothing to do the importation of any other countries SVD rifles. Yet nobody has imported a single one, to the best of my knowledge. I know theirs a market when Russian SVD's are going for $6,000+, Chinese NDM's are now close to $3,000. Hell, the last couple of Tigr's I've seen for sale were around $2,500 - and that was with the "hunting" thumb hole stock set.
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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:31:25 AM EDT
[#16]
the trade agreement text published below:
RUSSIA AGREEMENT ON FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ON EXPORTS OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION FROM THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA The Government of the United States of America and the Government of the Russian Federation, hereinafter referred to as the "Parties," In the context of removing a number of existing restrictions on the importation into the United States of firearms and ammunition from the Russian Federation; Recognizing the foreign policy interest of the Parties in expanding trade in firearms and ammunition between the, United States and the Russian Federation in a manner compatible with domestic security; Recognizing the intention of the United States of America that United States policy with respect to access to the United States market for firearms and ammunition be applied in a nondiscriminatory manner to all of its trading partners; Wishing to promote trade and cooperation on an equal and mutually beneficial basis between the United States and the Russian Federation and to expand economic opportunities in the two countries; Have agreed as follows: Article 1: Definitions. The following definitions apply to this Agreement: (a) "Ammunition" means any ammunition, cartridge case, primer, bullet, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm. (b) "Firearm" means any nonautomatic, semiautomatic, or automatic firearm, to caliber .50 (12.7 mm) inclusive other than a shotgun, or any component or part for such firearm. (c) "New model ammunition" means a type of ammunition the manufacture of which began after February 9, 1996, (d) "New model firearm" means a type of firearm the manufacture of which began after February 9, 1996. Article 2: Firearms and Ammunition Export Prohibitions. The Government of the Russian Federation shall not allow the exportation from the Russian Federation, destined to the United States, of the following firearms and ammunition: (a) any firearm, including any new model firearm, except a firearm described in Annex A to this Agreement; (b) ammunition described in Annex B to this Agreement; and (c) new model ammunition. Article 3: Consultations. (a) Each Party shall provide to the other Party, on request, information necessary for the implementation and enforcement of this Agreement. A Party shall keep confidential all information received from the other Party that is designated by the providing Party as confidential and shall not provide it to any other government or any private person without the providing Party's written consent. (b) The Parties agree to consult promptly, not later than 30 days after receipt of a request from either Party, regarding any matter concerning this Agreement. (c) At any time, either Party may propose that a firearm be added to or deleted from Annex A or that ammunition be added to or deleted from Annex B. The Parties shall consult promptly regarding such a proposal and may amend either Annex by written agreement of the Parties. (d) Where a question arises as to whether a particular firearm or ammunition is subject to the export prohibition in Article 2, the Parties shall consult promptly. The firearm or ammunition shall be subject to the export prohibition pending resolution of the matter. Article 4: Construction. Nothing in this Agreement shall be construed to affect the applicability to firearms, ammunition, or other products of the laws and regulations of the United States or the Russian Federation imposing restrictions or requirements on importation. Article 5: Actions to Ensure the Effectiveness of this Agreement. Either Party may take any action, as provided in its laws and regulations, necessary to ensure the effectiveness of this Agreement. Article 6: Emergency Actions. If the Government of the United States determines that the actual or prospective importation of any firearm described in Annex A or ammunition other than that described in Annex B is causing or threatens to cause damage to the domestic security of the United States, the Government of the United States reserves the right to take any measure it deems appropriate consistent with the Agreement on Trade Relations, signed between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the United States of America at Washington on June 1, 1990, as amended, brought into force between the United States of America and the Russian Federation pursuant to an exchange of notes on June 17, 1992. The Government of the United States shall consult with the Government of the Russian Federation prior to taking any such measure. If prior and prompt consultations are not possible because of an emergency situation, the Government of the United States shall consult with the Government of the Russian Federation as soon as possible after taking the measure. Article 7: Amendments. This Agreement may be amended by written agreement of the Parties. Article 8: No Effect on Articles in U.S. Customs Territory. This Agreement shall not affect the fulfillment of contracts with respect to firearms or ammunition entered or withdrawn from warehouse for consumption in the United States on or before February 9, 1996. Article 9: Annexes; Entry into Force; Termination. (a) The Annexes to this Agreement are an integral part of this Agreement. (b) This Agreement shall enter into force upon the date of its signature by both (c) Either Party may terminate this Agreement by providing written notification to the other Party at least twelve months prior to the date of termination. Done at Washington on April 3, 1996, in duplicate, in the English and Russian languages, both texts being equally authentic. /S/ /S/ For the Government of the For the Government of the United States of America Russian Federation ANNEX A Firearms Permitted to Be Imported into the United States from the Russian Federation Pistols/Revolvers 1. German Model P08 Pistol 2. IZH 34M, .22 caliber Target Pistol 3. IZH 3 5M, .22 caliber Target Pistol 4. Mauser Model 1896 Pistol 5. MC-57-1 Pistol 6. MC-1-5 Pistol 7. Polish Vis Model 35 Pistol 8. Soviet Nagant Revolver 9. TOZ 35,.22 caliber Target Pistol Rifles 1. BARS-4 Bolt Action Carbine 2. Biathlon Target Rifle, .22LR caliber 3. British Enfield Rifle 4. CM2,.22 caliber Target Rifle (also known as SM2,.22 caliber) 5. German Model 98K Rifle 6. German Model G41 Rifle 7. German Model G43 Rifle 8. IZH-94 9. LOS-7 Bolt Action Rifle 10. MC-7-07 11. MC-18-3 12. MC-19-07 13. MC-105-01 14. MC-112-02 15. MC-113-02 16. MC-115-1 17. MC-125/127 18. MC-126 19. MC-128 20. Saiga Rifle 21. Soviet Model 38 Carbine 22. Soviet Model 44 Carbine 23. Soviet Model 91/30 Rifle 24. TOZ 18,.22 caliber Bolt Action Rifle 25. TOZ 55 26. TOZ 78 27. Ural Target Rifle, .22LR caliber 28. VEPR Rifle 29. Winchester Model 1895, Russian Model Rifle ANNEX B Ammunition Prohibited from Being Imported into the United States from the Russian Federation 1. 7.62X25mm caliber (also known as 7.63X25 mm caliber or.30 Mauser) |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:37:39 AM EDT
[#17]
it is worthwhile to note that there are currently firearm models being imported from the russian federation that were neither on that list or even in existance in 1996...so the treaty must have beenn amended/updated per the clause that permits the same.
now...why hasn't a sanitized drag been added to the list??? psl/fpk..da. svd...nyet. what gives? |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:45:58 AM EDT
[#18]
I agree entirely! Its like their is a dam conspiracy to keep SVD's out of our hands! Worse firearm mistake I've ever made was selling my Russian. I know several SVD collectors have tried to get to the bottom of this importation mystery ( Berg, PVTPYLE, Etc.) and they all came up empty.
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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:51:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Bob, is that both 7.63 Mauser (.30 Mauser) and 7.62 X 25? I knew of the 7.62, but am not aware of any Russian weapons in 7.63.
They are different rounds, although sometimes interchangeable in some pistols. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#20]
yeah..it's pathetic.
since stottman has been down this road with the atf, i would be interested in hearing the details on why the drag can not be imported from 3rd party countries. this is particularly vexing since the svd is an otherwise 'legal' style of firearm. 10 shots, semi-auto...and not all that damn accurate. any bedded m1a with a few nm parts installed will shoot rings around a drag and you can get those totally eeeeevil 20 round hi-caps for it. hell, i've got a tweaked fal i would put up against the svd in a paper-punching contest. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 11:01:18 AM EDT
[#21]
The basic answer I got from the ATF was that there was an agreement between Russia and the US that the Russians would not sell firearms to the US civilian market except for certain models that had sporting purpose. The Tiger/SVD/Drag is not on the list. The same law/agreement also covers RUSSIAN origin rifles coming from a 3rd country. For example, if Estonia decided to surplus Russian made SVDs to the US civilian market they could not be imported.
They said nothing about SVDs that are actually made in a 3rd country. For example, a Bulgarian made model. Granted, I got my Russian military SVD for almost nothing but it would be nice to be able to buy another. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 11:20:37 AM EDT
[#22]
I just remembered something. I know why the ATF hates the SVD. It has something to do with the SVD's fire control parts. I remember something like the trigger can be very easily modified to fire full auto. I don't remember all the details, but Berg from SVD Discussions got that answer from some government official that I assume to be ATF a year or two ago. Like I said, I don't remember the exact details, but I'm sure that was it.
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Posted: 10/20/2003 1:58:56 PM EDT
[#23]
waht he said...unless you'd (ahem) "like it", that is.... stinks from 8000 miles awy |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 6:57:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Yes, as far as I have heard, the military SVD's
have a saftey sear (aka full auto sear), making them easy to convert.... I still haven't seen much detailed info or parts diagrams on this sear.... I wish I would have taken one apart when I was in Russia.... Stott, what's yours look like over there in Germany? -C |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 8:44:19 PM EDT
[#25]
remember when CENTURY imported the last batch of bulgarian maks, there was a bunch of soviet military maks mixed in with those.....the story I read is that CENTURY got in some trouble with the ATF over that, don't know how true it is...but if it is, I serious doubt you would be able to import a SVD that was made in russia through a 3rd country.
my advice leave this whole SVD import thing alone....it's like staring at the sun, nothing good will happen to you. |
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Posted: 10/20/2003 11:07:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Mine is located in the States. When I came to Germany I left all my guns there.
I never took apart the trigger group on it anyways, only just field stripped it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2003 8:32:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Ah, I see-
Do you remember what year your gun was marked with? Thanks, -C |
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Posted: 10/21/2003 7:44:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Mine is from the 80s sometime. Dont remember exactly, as it has been quite awhile since I have fondeled it.
I had three originally, but sold two. They all were from about the same time period. |
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Posted: 10/21/2003 11:17:02 PM EDT
[#29]
You are making me sick man... Well if you ever do sell that one, or find another military one...let me know brother....As a side note, I could have bought a KBI Russian import this month (1 of 100 imported in the early 90's) for about $5000+ from my local friend, but I really would have prefered a military one if I was going to sell my soul away for one gun.
Take care, -C |
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Posted: 10/22/2003 12:53:29 AM EDT
[#30]
If I told you how much I paid for them, you would get even sicker.
Just remember my job, that I travel allot and put 2 and 2 together. |
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