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Posted: 5/22/2005 5:04:45 AM EDT
Here are some pics of a German WWII STG44, including being field stripped. This hopefully will show that the AK does not show share any major design features-

My background removing still needs some work-





Link Posted: 5/22/2005 5:13:09 AM EDT
I so want one of those guns so bad. At least I'll have the chance(I hope) to shoot one again this summer.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 5:22:38 AM EDT
Shoei of Japan makes a perfect replica copy. In fact, the magazine used for these pics is from a Shoei. The Museum's basement collection had a rack of about 15 MP43,44, STG44 types. I grabbed the best looking one. Turned out to be a Shoei model! I could not tell the difference. Only when I compared it with a live one, did I notice the very minor (in markings only) differences.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 5:33:28 AM EDT
Forget the replica, the only ones worth having are the NFA registered ones. I want to be able to shoot it not just look at it. I love the sound of the 44 when it's being fired.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 5:45:05 AM EDT
They are "somewhat" similar...not very. I know next to nothing about the STG44....but it looks like the bolt head doesnt rotate. IE doesnt lock. Is this true?
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 5:50:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 5:51:52 AM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 5:59:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
Forget the replica, the only ones worth having are the NFA registered ones. I want to be able to shoot it not just look at it. I love the sound of the 44 when it's being fired.




I shot a couple of magazines through one a couple of years ago................... It's music!!!!
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:57:43 AM EDT
Whats more interesting is you can see the direct lineage from the STG44 to the Cetme and the G3. The mechanism has changed but the receiver and stock etc are direct ancestors.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:01:22 AM EDT
why oh why cant I afford one of those and an FG42?
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 12:28:35 PM EDT
That is such gun porn

I sure would take a replica
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 12:58:30 PM EDT
That is the Daddy of the AK .This gun was taking from the Germans and changed (alot) to make the AK. Why do you say to show there is no major design features?
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 1:38:38 PM EDT
Both would be considered 'assault weapons' by the Brady Brunch.

Ben
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 4:48:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:

About the only things similar between the StG-44 and the AK are:
Gas operated
Select fire
Intermediate power rounds
Notch and blade style sight
Op rod and gas piston are connected

That's it. The StG's used a tilting block system, kinda like an SKS or a FAL, rather than the rotating bolt of the AK.

While the StG-44 and the AK both appear to be similar on the outside, as Stottman's excellent photos show, they are very different beasts on the inside. Kalashnikov may have been "inspired" by the MKb-42H, the MP-43/44, StG-44 series, as far as a genereal layout of the weapon, he did not copy them.



The trigger system of the AK47 aslo appears to be a very simplified version of the MP43/MP44/StG44's trigger.

http://www.gunpics.net/german/mp44/mp4415.JPG

Having said that, it is also similar to the m1 Garands or G43's trigger.

The most telling fact in the history of the MP44 & AK47 is that Hugh Schmiesser, the designer behind the MP44, was a guest of the Soviet Union between 1946 and 1951 in the same factory that Kalashnikov was developing the AK47.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 6:13:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 6:45:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:

Kiwi.............tell me that's not your own personal StG-44......... hr


That's not my own personal StG44......... it's my MP43.

I'm still looking for a StG44 and a MP43/1 (good luck) then I'll have all 4
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 6:54:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:07:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:

Mate, don't take this the wrong way, but I hate you. heers!



check out my website if you're interested in seeing more pictures.

(not all the guns featured are mine)
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:14:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:18:16 PM EDT
Nope, that AR-10 belongs to a friend who contributed the non-German/Russian arms. Yeah it's a really nice rifle one of only a handful that made it into NZ.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:22:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:37:05 PM EDT
How hard is it finding 7.92x33 kurz?

Ben
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:40:08 PM EDT
Stottman.. You have the job I've always wanted apparently.

Got anything from the Great War?
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:40:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:44:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 7:47:33 PM EDT by kiwicollector]

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
How hard is it finding 7.92x33 kurz?

Ben



In the US? easy as someone has re-started production and it is getting imported. Otherwise new cases are available for reloading.

In NZ you can still find the 1950's manufactured East German ammo, but its expensive.

Edit:
Gary Cole of Cole Distributing posted on the Gunboards forums that he was bringing it in:

www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=93530&SearchTerms=kurz
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:51:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
How hard is it finding 7.92x33 kurz?

Ben



about a dollar a pop
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 11:19:53 PM EDT
Wasn't there talk that they found some of these rifles stashed away in Mother Russia when they went over to pick out the captured K-98s?
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 2:34:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 8:31:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Adventurer_96:
Wasn't there talk that they found some of these rifles stashed away in Mother Russia when they went over to pick out the captured K-98s?



I had not heard that, but it doesnt really suprise me. The Russians pull out all kinds of cool stuff from WWII, most of it still new in the grease. 90% of the WWII stuff on the world market (even American made stuff, sent over as Lend Lease aid) comes via Russia or the Ukraine.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 1:09:18 PM EDT
Hmmm, it's be cool to find a surplus of around 100-200 rifles still in grease.... then someone could broker a deal, have them de-milled and made into parts kits

Now that would be a nice parts kit

Anyone speak russian
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 4:08:26 PM EDT
I seem to remember reading that the Russians would have wanted too much for them, since they know how collectable they are over here. G43s also, IIRC.

Link Posted: 5/23/2005 4:45:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Adventurer_96:
I seem to remember reading that the Russians would have wanted too much for them, since they know how collectable they are over here. G43s also, IIRC.



IIRC that's pretty much the same deal with all the M1895 Winchester muskets that they bought during WWI. The Russkis want way too much for them & the importers don't want to spend the $$$$$.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 5:03:10 PM EDT
If all of this is true then they can keep the shit and let it rust away.

I mean hell... we are basically the only country that will even consider paying a "reasonable" price for the guns anyway.

Do you think china or a bunch of rebels are going to pay 1000+ bucks for a WW2 era gun, I think not.

They might as well sell them to us. At least we will take good care of them and not use them for ethnic cleansing or any other atrocity.



A de-milled kit with a supplied "receiver schematic " would be gold

Throw us a bone Russia !
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 5:09:50 PM EDT
So how is the reliability of the rifle? I know no one would be crazy enough to conduct any type of torture test on such a rare rifle, but does anyone know how it compares to the AK, for instance?
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 5:27:37 PM EDT
Those are great pics and an outstanding rifle you are a lucky man.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 6:53:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
So how is the reliability of the rifle? I know no one would be crazy enough to conduct any type of torture test on such a rare rifle, but does anyone know how it compares to the AK, for instance?



Very reliable, some troops reported them to be more reliable than the Kar98k! My guess is that this was only true under the severe winter conditions when oil in the Kar98k bolt could freeze, while the MP.44 needed very little to no lubrication.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 7:55:28 PM EDT
I sometimes wonder why many classic firearms are not rebuilt to original specs with original materials and sold as sporting firearms. A semi STG44 would sell like hotcakes! I know I'd buy one.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 8:15:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
I sometimes wonder why many classic firearms are not rebuilt to original specs with original materials and sold as sporting firearms. A semi STG44 would sell like hotcakes! I know I'd buy one.



Probably because AK's are already available, the ammunition for them is cheap and plentiful and can be used in a verity of other rifles.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:08:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kiwicollector:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
I sometimes wonder why many classic firearms are not rebuilt to original specs with original materials and sold as sporting firearms. A semi STG44 would sell like hotcakes! I know I'd buy one.



Probably because AK's are already available, the ammunition for them is cheap and plentiful and can be used in a verity of other rifles.



Yeah, what kiwi said

What are there 8-10 million AKs floating around the world With tons of ammo...

It just wouldn't make sense to make a semi-auto because they are almost identical in terms of "assault rifle", plus a new production rifle would cost a fortune because you would have to make all the parts from scratch and then there is the ammo issue.

I'd love to have one, but an AK is so much more practical.

Now if I could petition everyone to go for an semi-MP40.... now there is a sweet gun too
Oh wait... there is the MP5 & clones, so that would be shot down too....

Sad
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:30:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 1:02:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bones21:
If all of this is true then they can keep the shit and let it rust away.

I mean hell... we are basically the only country that will even consider paying a "reasonable" price for the guns anyway.

Do you think china or a bunch of rebels are going to pay 1000+ bucks for a WW2 era gun, I think not.

They might as well sell them to us. At least we will take good care of them and not use them for ethnic cleansing or any other atrocity.



A de-milled kit with a supplied "receiver schematic " would be gold

Throw us a bone Russia !




Actually, allot of the them (and other cool WW2 stuff) are sold on the European collector market. Either as live guns where legal (Finland, Switzerland, Norway, etc), or deactivated (Germany, England, Russia, etc).

Actually saw an ad from a German company the other day, that would legally take your deact MP44 type and build it into a legal semi auto with a new bolt, barrel, and magazine blocked to 2 or 10 rounds (depending on what type of gun licence you have).
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