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Posted: 9/23/2004 12:22:03 PM EST
what's better silver bear 03 MFG zinc plated case berdoan primed NON-COR 124 GR "8MI" effect
or the mil spec russian sealed can ? whats better?

THANKS GUYS...
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 12:46:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 2:10:03 AM EST by obershutze916]
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:35:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
There is a reason that all militaries use FMJ ammo. The "Rules of War" asside, they gain a consitancy in feeding and better penetration against hard or hardened targets.

While SP ammo may have a better effect upon hitting someone, it is not reliable if you must shoot through a barrier, even a light one. If in this type of situation, it is not likely that someone will becomming at you in the open. Stupid on their part if they do.

Some AK rounds do tumble after impact, but stay togethter for the most part. The wound is not that much greater than a FMJ round passing through the body.

The Yugo FMJ does tend to come apart, but are you willing an able to clean for corrosivness in a SHTF situation? Most are not.

If you are looking fo simple, reliable effecvtive ammo, go woth Wolf, Barnaul, or Uly FMJ.

I get the best accuracy with Barnaul folowed by Uly. Uly comes in Spam cans as does Wolf now.

Both Wolf and Barnaul use the "newer" type of bullet that yaws more quickly. Not sure about the Uly.

In reality, no one wants to get shot. People argue for days over the best round to use, but in the end, any hole through the body will make most people stop what they are doing or run away right then and there. That is all you really care about.

Any Ak round will put that hole in someone and defeat thin barriers in doing so.

Have some good SP ammo around in case you need it, but for the rest, just stick with what the military uses. They have a reason for doing so.

Hope this helps.



THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:24:38 AM EST
What I think is funny is that in the AR section people say NOT to use Wolf for defense. But, when it comes to AK's, get the cheap stuff. Is it the nature of the firearm or the round?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:06:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:53:03 PM EST
I might add that if your AK has a spring loaded firing pin and you decide to use Wolf for SHTF you should run enough rounds through the gun to check for reliability. When using Wolf in my Arsenal Inc rifle I have about five rounds out of every case that won't go bang on the first firing pin strike. Barnaul has been a lot more reliable for me anyway. Now that I think about it, my AK-74 had the same problem with Wolf.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 3:28:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:05:20 PM EST
Where is the the best place to get barnaul ?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:10:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:28:18 PM EST
ober,
Here is more info.
Rifle #1: Arsenal Inc SA M-7 (spring loaded firing pin)
First 1000 rounds through the gun were Wolf. Five would not fire on the first strike.
Second 1000 rounds through the gun were Silver Bear (Barnaul ). No problems whatsoever.
Next 500 rounds were Barnaul lacquered. No problems.
Next 1000 rounds were Wolf. Four would not fire on the first strike.
Everything since then has been Silver Bear. No problems.
Rifle #2: Firing Line AK-74
First 1000 rounds were Wolf. Two would not fire.
Next 1500 were Barnaul. No problems.
I've also fired a few hundred rounds of Silver Bear through this gun with no problems.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:31:33 PM EST
THANKS.......
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:07:49 AM EST
Finding some old steel core is a good idea. I have 1000 rounds of the old DDR surplus steelcore (corrosive, green laquer steel case, red case neck and primer sealant). The steel core penetrates chance barriers and cover marginally better than the lead core in most cases. That and the East German stuff is accurate and relatively hot.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:39:26 PM EST
I have heard this before actually but never had it happen to me personally. All of my AK weapons that I have in my collection now have free floating firing pin...that is... the firing pin is not spring loaded. My one AK that did have a spring loaded firing pin was the SA-M7 from Arsenal of Las Vegas.

I understand the reasoning behind this very well. The reason is that all Russian 7.62x39mm ammunition that’s imported here has the hard military style primers where as American and most European ammunition has the softer civilian primers. With a free floating firing pin, the forward inertia of the bolt and the contact the firing pin will have on the primer before the round is chambered is enough to cause a slamfire. With an AK I have never had this happen... but in the early 90’s I worked for a company that brought in the first Tiger-Dragunov’s from Russia... and we blew the first one up using Norma 7.62x54R.

So, the rationale now is, if the rifle is made in the US, the chance that someone will use Winchester or some other commercial/domestic made 7.62 is high enough to warrant the installation of the firing pin spring.

Now, the question as to why you are getting approx 5 per case not to fire is beyond me. I have been shooting Russian ammo, namely 7.62x39 since the early/mid 1980’s and have had maybe a total of 5 not fire... and this is after, damn, I would almost say a boat load of rounds fired.

Have you tried those rounds that didn’t fire in other 7.62x39mm weapons to see if they fired in them?

Hope some of this babble was at least somewhat helpful.


Y-
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:50:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:32:53 PM EST
Yeah, exactly...

Wow, I was re-reading one of the above posts...



Here is more info.
Rifle #1: Arsenal Inc SA M-7 (spring loaded firing pin)
First 1000 rounds through the gun were Wolf. Five would not fire on the first strike.
Second 1000 rounds through the gun were Silver Bear (Barnaul ). No problems whatsoever.
Next 500 rounds were Barnaul lacquered. No problems.
Next 1000 rounds were Wolf. Four would not fire on the first strike.
Everything since then has been Silver Bear. No problems.
Rifle #2: Firing Line AK-74
First 1000 rounds were Wolf. Two would not fire.
Next 1500 were Barnaul. No problems.
I've also fired a few hundred rounds of Silver Bear through this gun with no problems.



Would seem to me that Tula's primers might be tad bit too hard...
very intersting...
Thanks

Y-
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