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Posted: 5/21/2005 8:27:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 8:46:28 AM EST by usamma]
Does anyone know where I could find a 5.45 gasblock with bayonett lug for a SAR-2?

Will a 7.62 work on it?

Also if I had a gas block with a bayonet lug on it and had the barrel threaded and installed this flash hider:

www.k-var.com/product.asp?0=216&1=234&3=459

would this flash hider interfere with the bayonett?

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 8:57:14 AM EST
the flash hider you have linked to is meant for a threaded barrel not a threaded front sight block like is usually found on AK74 rifles. it shouldnt interfere with a bayonet at all so long as you get a standard AKM 47 FSB and thread the barrel(if you have enough to thread).
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:00:28 AM EST
You can find 5.45mm gas blocks from FAC at www.gunsnstuff.com Part # AK022. I think that Global trades and Centerfire have them also. I don't know if the 7.62mm blocks will work I am pretty sure that you will be able to mount a Bayonet using that FS, the same concept as a slant break.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:13:29 AM EST
That flashhider in the link was meant for a 14x1 threaded barrel. Same as an AKM barrel.
Romanian SAR 2's barrel has the same diameter as an AR15 barrel i think, so it's not big enough to be threaded for a 14x1mm muzzle attachment.

The gas block lug on the AK-74's was meant to mount a grenade launcher onto.
The real bayonet lug for the '74 is on the FSB.



In this pic is a Romanian '74 with both lugs. You can see the bayonet lug on the FSB.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:49:48 AM EST
From what I understand of USAMA's post he is going to thread the BARRELL to 14mm LHT, then mount the FH. The gas block lug as a grenade launcher mount??? I don't know about that, but it is made to mount the regular bayonet, the hilt of the bayonet is flush with the FSB, and the base of the handle mounts into the GB lug. Usama is on the right track for what he wants.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:55:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By 18BSOTTM:
From what I understand of USAMA's post he is going to thread the BARRELL to 14mm LHT, then mount the FH. The gas block lug as a grenade launcher mount??? I don't know about that, but it is made to mount the regular bayonet, the hilt of the bayonet is flush with the FSB, and the base of the handle mounts into the GB lug. Usama is on the right track for what he wants.



on the AK74 the GP grenade launcher mounts to the gas block lug. on my bulgy build the compensator is long enough that the bayonet connects to the front sight base lug. the lugs are very similar however, and you'd have a 2 and a half hand grip on your bayonet if it did mount to the gas block lug.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:01:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
the flash hider you have linked to is meant for a threaded barrel not a threaded front sight block like is usually found on AK74 rifles. it shouldnt interfere with a bayonet at all so long as you get a standard AKM 47 FSB and thread the barrel(if you have enough to thread).



This is what I want to do, thread the barrel 14 x 1 LF isnt the AKM 47 FSB essentially what is on the SAR-2 as opposed to the threaded FSB
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:04:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By No1Here:
That flashhider in the link was meant for a 14x1 threaded barrel. Same as an AKM barrel.
Romanian SAR 2's barrel has the same diameter as an AR15 barrel i think, so it's not big enough to be threaded for a 14x1mm muzzle attachment.

The gas block lug on the AK-74's was meant to mount a grenade launcher onto.
The real bayonet lug for the '74 is on the FSB.

avtomats-in-action.com/media2/Rom74025.jpg

In this pic is a Romanian '74 with both lugs. You can see the bayonet lug on the FSB.



Are you sure an SAR 2's barrel is not big enough to be threaded 14 x 1 mm and that the bayonet lug is on the FSB?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:06:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By 18BSOTTM:
From what I understand of USAMA's post he is going to thread the BARRELL to 14mm LHT, then mount the FH. The gas block lug as a grenade launcher mount??? I don't know about that, but it is made to mount the regular bayonet, the hilt of the bayonet is flush with the FSB, and the base of the handle mounts into the GB lug. Usama is on the right track for what he wants.



This is what i want to do, assuming it possible.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:08:15 AM EST
the front sight base on an AK74 has a very large threaded portion of the actual FSB in 24mm for everyone but the romanians who use a 22mm thread. IIRC the SAR2 has a standard AKM FSB with no threads on it.

if there is enough barrel to thread then by all means go for it with the romy flash hider, which is very cool looking if you ask me. otherwise it might be easier to use a bulgarian AK74 FSB with a threaded section on it already and run a standard AK74 compensator and use a standard AK74 bayonet as well.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:10:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
otherwise it might be easier to use a bulgarian AK74 FSB with a threaded section on it already and run a standard AK74 compensator and use a standard AK74 bayonet as well.



Will the bulgarian 74 fsb work on an SAR-2?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:10:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By usamma:

Originally Posted By No1Here:
That flashhider in the link was meant for a 14x1 threaded barrel. Same as an AKM barrel.
Romanian SAR 2's barrel has the same diameter as an AR15 barrel i think, so it's not big enough to be threaded for a 14x1mm muzzle attachment.

The gas block lug on the AK-74's was meant to mount a grenade launcher onto.
The real bayonet lug for the '74 is on the FSB.

avtomats-in-action.com/media2/Rom74025.jpg

In this pic is a Romanian '74 with both lugs. You can see the bayonet lug on the FSB.



Are you sure an SAR 2's barrel is not big enough to be threaded 14 x 1 mm and that the bayonet lug is on the FSB?


As far as i understand the SAR 2 barrel diameter is the same as the AR15 barrel diameter which is 1/2x28 threads. Yes, the bayonet lug is on the FSB, because with the '74 brake attached the lug on the bottom of the 74 FSB is where the bayonet attaches and the ring fits over the 74 brake end.

The Romanian threaded FSB threads are 22mm which is smaller than the 24mm threaded FSB, which the Russians and Bulgarians use. To use a 24mm threaded '74 muzzle brake. You'd need an adapter of some kind to make up for the needed size.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:15:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 10:24:36 AM EST by 18BSOTTM]
He has a SAR 2, he has no FSB that is threaded, he has a standard FSB like a 47 has. The barrell of the SAR 2 should have enough diameter to thread it to 14mm. Remember, the SAR 2 dosn't have a regular AKM FSB. This is a pic of my SAR 3 with a Bulgarian FSB and Muzzle Comp installed, it needed a bit of massaging. Your SAR 2 is the same thing, there is no Bayo lug on the FSB of a SAR 2 or 3, hell or a SAR 1.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:16:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
the front sight base on an AK74 has a very large threaded portion of the actual FSB in 24mm for everyone but the romanians who use a 22mm thread. IIRC the SAR2 has a standard AKM FSB with no threads on it.

if there is enough barrel to thread then by all means go for it with the romy flash hider, which is very cool looking if you ask me. otherwise it might be easier to use a bulgarian AK74 FSB with a threaded section on it already and run a standard AK74 compensator and use a standard AK74 bayonet as well.


I have the same exact rifle as above, but it did not come with a threaded barrel so no compensator or a bayo lug.
All I really want to do is put the 74 brake on it, Romak 2 btw. Should i just get the barrel threaded or get a new FSB like you were saying RedHorseman?? Where would I get one at?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:20:57 AM EST
bulgarian FSB $69.99 from K-Var

dont be fooled by the cheap price on the Romanian FSB here as it uses a different threading(22mm as opposed to the standard 24mm) and brakes are a total PITA to find for that one. you can sometimes find bulgy FSB and comp combos on the EE for fairly cheap.

and no, I aint giving mine up.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:22:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 10:23:16 AM EST by JaketheSnake]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
bulgarian FSB $69.99 from K-Var

dont be fooled by the cheap price on the Romanian FSB here as it uses a different threading(22mm as opposed to the standard 24mm) and brakes are a total PITA to find for that one. you can sometimes find bulgy FSB and comp combos on the EE for fairly cheap.

and no, I aint giving mine up.


OK so get the bulgy FSB threaded and a Bulgy 74 style break and that should work. I wonder if they give you pins for that FSB?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:23:32 AM EST
Here is an RPK-74 with the exact same flash hider installed

www.newtonfirearms.com/main/index.php?categoryid=1&p17_sectionid=9

Now that is also a 5.45 rifle.

If you can thread it 14 x 1, why could you not do the same on a SAR-2?

Also if you will notice the flash hider is not that long, unlike the standard ak-74 compensator.

Couldnt you just add the gas block with the bayonett lug and attach the bayonet to it, since the flash hider is way to short to attach it like a regular ak-74
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:24:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 10:25:33 AM EST by JaketheSnake]

Sorry for interupting on your post usamma I apologize
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:29:11 AM EST
YES<YES,YES,YES!!!!!! You can do exactly what you are thinking with no problems what so ever Thats how the Romanian 47's are set up!! The GB lug is primarily a Bayo lug!!! Honest, believe me
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:29:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 10:31:41 AM EST by No1Here]

Originally Posted By 18BSOTTM:
He has a SAR 2, he has no FSB that is threaded, he has a standard FSB like a 47 has. The barrell of the SAR 2 should have enough diameter to thread it to 14mm. Remember, the SAR 2 dosn't have a regular AKM FSB. This is a pic of my SAR 3 with a Bulgarian FSB and Muzzle Comp installed, it needed a bit of massaging. Your SAR 2 is the same thing, there is no Bayo lug on the FSB of a SAR 2 or 3, hell or a SAR 1.
images.snapfish.com/3439934323232%7Ffp58%3Dot%3E2335%3D676%3D58%3­A%3DXROQDF%3E232386%3B%3B69539ot1lsi


Russia,Bulgaria,Romania and East German AK-74's has the bayonet lug on the FSB.
Only the AKM has the bayonet lug on the gas block.

The bare barrel of the SAR 2 is not big enough to be threaded for a 14x1 muzzle device.
The SAR 1, which is an AKM, has the barrel that can be threaded for 14mm threads and has the bayonet lug on the gas block, like every AKM has.

Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:33:08 AM EST
Right, but remember, SAR RIFLES DONT HAVE A STANDARD FSB installed, they were modified for import.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:51:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By No1Here:

The bare barrel of the SAR 2 is not big enough to be threaded for a 14x1 muzzle device.




Are you sure about this, I was told differently buy a person who builds AK's from parts kits.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:56:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By usamma:

Originally Posted By No1Here:

The bare barrel of the SAR 2 is not big enough to be threaded for a 14x1 muzzle device.




Are you sure about this, I was told differently buy a person who builds AK's from parts kits.


SAR-2 bare barrel diameter is the same as an AR15 barrel 1/2x28 thread.
To make a SAR-2 barrel big enough for a 14x1mm threaded muzzle device. You will need an adapter to make it the 14mm or 24mm thread size. If you have an SAR 1 or another 7.62 AK
compare it to the SAR 2 barrel end.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 11:17:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By No1Here:
SAR-2 bare barrel diameter is the same as an AR15 barrel 1/2x28 thread.



Ok if this is true, could I not thread the barrel 1/2 x 28, and then stall any AR-15 brake or suppressor

phantom
birdcage
what­ever

from say bushmaster

and then install the gas block with a bayonet lug?

Also will the bulgarian FSB work on a SAR-2?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 11:37:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By No1Here:
The SAR 1, which is an AKM, has the barrel that can be threaded for 14mm threads and has the bayonet lug on the gas block, like every AKM has.




It appears my SAR-2 has a bayonet lug also on the gas block, or what appears to be one, can anyone confirm this?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 11:39:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By 18BSOTTM:
You can find 5.45mm gas blocks from FAC at www.gunsnstuff.com Part # AK022. I think that Global trades and Centerfire have them also. I don't know if the 7.62mm blocks will work I am pretty sure that you will be able to mount a Bayonet using that FS, the same concept as a slant break.



I checked these sights and did not see any 5.45 gas blocks for sale can you provide a link?

Kvar does not appear to have any 5.45 specific gas blocks for sale either.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:45:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By usamma:

Originally Posted By No1Here:
SAR-2 bare barrel diameter is the same as an AR15 barrel 1/2x28 thread.



Ok if this is true, could I not thread the barrel 1/2 x 28, and then stall any AR-15 brake or suppressor

phantom
birdcage
what­ever

from say bushmaster

and then install the gas block with a bayonet lug?

Also will the bulgarian FSB work on a SAR-2?


Yes, you can thread your SAR 2 barrel 1/2x28 threads and use an AR15 brake or flash hider.

Bulgarian FSB fitting a SAR 2 barrel, i dont know.

The lug on the SAR 2 gas block was not meant for a bayonet.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:03:01 PM EST
Careful guys ... I have a Bulgy FSB mounted on my SAR-1 ... Best I can remember it was too large (ID) for my SAR-2 ....

The outer dia. of the SAR-1 Barrel is .581 ...

Outer dia. on the SAR-2 is .544 ... Almost 40 thousands of an inch diff. ...

I haven't pinned mine on yet ... I hate putting a 74 brake on a 47 ... Just doesn't seem right ...

I also think the slant brake does a better job on the 7.62 and the 74 brake does a better job on the 5.45 ... IMHO

Just that they were designed diff. for diff cal.

Anyway, my point is that I would do a little measuring and checking before I bought an expensive FSB that might not fit your barrel ...

Link Posted: 5/21/2005 7:26:31 PM EST
The bayonet lug on the gas block is vestigal from the pre-74 models. When they added the long brake, they had to add a bayo lug to the front sight block. The bayo lug on the gas block also serves as a cleaning rod retainer. The lug is not designed for the grenade launcher, the grenade launcher is designed for the lug, which is common to AKMs and AK74s.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 2:43:19 AM EST
I threaded my SAR 2 1/2X28 tpi then installed a 22mm adapter to be able to use the 22mm Romanian brake. That's the easiest route to take.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 3:17:29 AM EST
IIRC the ''bayonet lug" on the SAR-2 gas block is "really" an accessory lug for grenade launchers and stuff like that.

As for threading the SAR-2 barrel to 1/2 x 28 and adding a 22mm adapter it is VERY easy to do. The hard part is finding the Romanian 22mm muzzlebrake.

If anyone knows where to find these (22mm Romanian brakes) please let us know. That is the $60,000 question.
-vato
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:53:21 AM EST
The SAR 2's have a regular FSB that was installed on the 47's, it has no Bayo lug. The tip of the barrell has been turned down a bit and the diameter varys, so it will be hit or miss wether you can thread it to 14mmLH, or go with another size. Some SAR barrells you can thread, and some you cant. If you are set on installing that FS that you listed then there is going to be some trial and error, but you can do it, and yes you will be able to install a Bayonet with that FS.

AS far as the GB Bayonet lug... EODINERT is correct, that lug is and alwase has been a Bayonet lug, the grenade launcher was made to mount to it. I am sure that the 47 and 74 GB are the same and are interchangable.

If you want to mount a Bulgarian FSB with the threaded end cap and Bayonet lug then you will probably have to get a set of barrell shims from "BLACKJACK BUFFERS" web page, $7.00 I think. Then fit them by hand, and then re drill the mounting pin holes and VOLA!!! you are good to go.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:52:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By No1Here:

Yes, you can thread your SAR 2 barrel 1/2x28 threads and use an AR15 brake or flash hider.




What would keep an AR brake or flashhider in place since the AR doesnt have any sort of pin to lock it in place like an AK brake does?

My guess is nothing, it would just screw on and that is it.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:53:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 8:55:39 AM EST by jugrunner]
My guess is that TheRedHorseman could answer that question ...

Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:55:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By vatolocal:

As for threading the SAR-2 barrel to 1/2 x 28 and adding a 22mm adapter it is VERY easy to do. The hard part is finding the Romanian 22mm muzzlebrake.




Why not just use a 24mm adapter and use a bulgarian or krebs brake?

Also where could one find a 1/2 x 28 to 24mm or 22mm adapter?

I have seen the adapters that allow you to go from 14 x 1 to 24mm to 22mm, I beleive Krebs makes them.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:56:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 8:57:33 AM EST by TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted By jugrunner:
My guess is that TheRedHorseman could answer that question ...




why, yes I could

you could thread it to a standard AR thread pitch and throw something on there, all you would have to do is cut a small notch into the muzzle device to engage the locking plunger on the FSB.

but if you put an AR flash hider on your AK I'll have to ridicule you out of principle.
now I say go with the standard AK74 FSB and brake, its easier than threading and looks right if you ask me. the AK74 brake is extremely effective as well.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:58:06 AM EST
I knew it !! ... There you have it ... Lock it Down !!

Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:58:51 AM EST
Finally what would be the disadvantages to just having any old brake or flash hider, permanetly welded on, besides the obvious of not being able to remove it? What are the ramifications?

The only reason I want a brake or flashhider is to protect the crown, if the brake or flash hider helped with recoil or flash reduction, that is just a bonus.

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 9:00:53 AM EST
nothing wrong with welding it on other than not being able to remove it for a detailed cleaning. you may want to consider some of the older "pin on" post ban AK74 style brakes for that work, its and easy install, protects the crown, can be removed in the future, and will cut recoil as well.

that would be the best way to get what you want if you ask me
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 9:02:08 AM EST
All of mine are welded on ... That way they don't go flying off into the next County when all those adapters come loose when I go Bump ..

Link Posted: 5/22/2005 9:06:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

you could thread it to a standard AR thread pitch and throw something on there, all you would have to do is cut a small notch into the muzzle device to engage the locking plunger on the FSB.

but if you put an AR flash hider on your AK I'll have to ridicule you out of principle.
now I say go with the standard AK74 FSB and brake, its easier than threading and looks right if you ask me. the AK74 brake is extremely effective as well.



Not to beat a redhorseman.

But the only FSB that will fit correctly is the romanian one threaded 22mm, since the bulgarian one would require shims, which would bother me.

then to use a brake I would have to get an adapter since 22mm brakes are virtually non existant.

Seems cheaper and less hassle to just thread 1/2 x 28 buy a cheapo ar bird cage flashider and cut a notch in.

Link Posted: 5/22/2005 9:08:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By usamma:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

you could thread it to a standard AR thread pitch and throw something on there, all you would have to do is cut a small notch into the muzzle device to engage the locking plunger on the FSB.

but if you put an AR flash hider on your AK I'll have to ridicule you out of principle.
now I say go with the standard AK74 FSB and brake, its easier than threading and looks right if you ask me. the AK74 brake is extremely effective as well.



Not to beat a redhorseman.

But the only FSB that will fit correctly is the romanian one threaded 22mm, since the bulgarian one would require shims, which would bother me.

then to use a brake I would have to get an adapter since 22mm brakes are virtually non existant.

Seems cheaper and less hassle to just thread 1/2 x 28 buy a cheapo ar bird cage flashider and cut a notch in.




another option is to find someone who has a WASR10 with the 1/2x28 threaded barrel and buy their slant brake off of them in that case.
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