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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/4/2004 5:11:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 6:56:15 PM EST by Buzzstrike]
Looking to put some cash down on a Romak 3. A fellow ARFCOMer (deltaair) has one and after letting me put a few rounds down range. I was hooked.

But I am more of a Battle rifle kind of guy. (Garand/Enfield).

What is the difference frome the Romak vs the Dragenov(?)

Build quality, accuratcy, any or all pluses or minus.

Just think that the look of the rifle is kick ass.

Looks to be one hell of a plinker.

And are they all the same. I see them for sale from differnt importers. Does it really matter??

Sorry for all the questions, its just that I have only begun my intense education of the AK family.


Buzz.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 6:50:48 PM EST
I have a Romak3 and love it.

Drag= Better accuracy but not by much
Better Quality
$3500-$6000 Hard to find.


Romak3= $600-$900 Easy to find.
mags are $100 for 4 from SOG
Built just like a Ak
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 6:54:23 PM EST
I think the Romak is a nice looking rifle myself. I have other projects in the pipes, so it's not on my list of "things to buy", but if I had piles of cash sitting around, I'd definitely snag one. Anyway...

The Romak III is actually a Romanian PSL rifle, which is based on the FPK receiver. In essense, it's the ol' Kalashnikov action scaled up for the 7.62x54R cartridge. Same chunky bolt carrier and piston, just a lot bigger/longer. The true Dragunov's recoil system is different from the Kalashnikov, perhaps a little more elegant. The PSL will take Drag mags, though the Romanian PSL mags are probably more available and not as crazy expensive.

I've seen a variety of samples in build quality of the Romaks. Sometimes they look like they were mixed in the crate with the rest of the SARs and WASRs (i.e. really beat up) and other times they look like brand spanking new rifles. If you are able to handpick one yourself, you'd probably get the best quality; though if you're into buying Romanian guns, original factory finish may not be one of your foremost concerns. (It sure wasn't for me--number one qualification: "does gun go bang?") You can also get one kit built if that floated your boat: some companies carry parts kits and receivers for reasonable prices, though there's not a whole lot of money to be saved. I'd just get a factory built one and send it to my favorite gunsmith to get a new finish if that was a concern.

Accuracy is pretty widely debated. 80% of the problems people experience with accuracy regards the ammo used in the gun. Drags and PSLs don't like the real heavy 7.62x54R ammo--it beats the action all to hell, shortening your guns life and producing craptacular results at the same time. From what I hear, the light Wolf 148 grain 7.62x54R ball produces the best results. The heavier ammo feeds best in the Mosin-Nagants; incidentally, also keep in mind that most 7.62x54R surplus is corrosize as it's old as dirt. It wouldn't surprise me if people with accuracy problems were using ancient ammo, expecting it to be like new match rounds.

Someone else will have to chime in on accuracy, as I lack information (like however many MOA at 100 yards) on this. My way of evaluating accuracy is the scientific "minute of paper plate" so I can't really be specific here; I also don't have a Romak. Keep in mind, while the PSL is billed as a Romanian "sniper rifle", Soviet Bloc countries really didn't use the term the same way we Westerners do. Their idea of a sniper rifle is something a rifleman uses in a unit to make the "bad guys" (us? scary) duck while the conventionally armed infantry (AK-47/74s) advance. Covering fire at 600m; the gun won't be super accurate, but it can probably hit a silhouette at that point, and it'll make you think twice about coming out from cover. 7.62x54R is about on par with the .30-06 for distance/range/accuracy/etc. considerations. (For what it's worth, the lack of a true precision rifle in Russian forces has been remedied to bring things up to speed with Western forces, but they still use both Drags and the new bolt rifles--old habits die hard, and the Drag sure as hell ain't nothin' to sneeze at in the hands of the Spetnatz!)

Gun has a standard AK scope rail on the receiver. I've seen them without a scope, using AK-style irons (yuck), as well as with 6x42 and 8x42 scopes. Russian optics are usually pretty good. I'd definitely make sure there were optics on my rifle. There's also a new set of "paratrooper" Romaks floating around now. Major difference is the short 16" barrel, everything else is the same. I personally think these are pretty stupid, a solution looking for a problem. You gain nothing except a louder muzzle blast and recoil when you chop the barrel down. Additionally, I'm not sure if they were ever issued in that form, or if this is some importer's way of making more money. You may like the 16" look, so remember that opinions are likes assholes--everyone's got one.

I'm not sure about the US parts issue. Given that they are not a "hicap" rifle (no 10+ round magazines were ever made), and are imported with the thumbhole stock, I don't think they are affected by 922(r)--therefore 100% Romanian, but I'm not sure. (Though I suspect if you slapped a pistol grip on it, you'd need to meet the US parts count.) SOMEONE CORRECT THIS IF I AM WRONG. Obviously, the AWB does affect them, so no flash hiders or bayonet lugs. CHECK BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, AS I AM NOT A LEGAL EXPERT. I hear many people like to install the RSA adjustable trigger in their Romak's, so they'll take new triggers with a minimal amount of tinkering. Adding US parts never hurts! Cost is anywhere from $700 to $850, depending on where you're at. I think $700 is probably the limit, given the spotty finish--it's worth whatever you want to pay though. Gotta ask yourself just how badly you want one.

Those are my thoughts on the gun. Sorry that I don't own one and can't give more specifics than that. You can search the threads here in AK Discussions and the Romanian board; there's been a few threads about the gun made. Definitely something that will attract some eyes at the range.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 6:59:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 7:03:19 PM EST by Ripcode]

Originally Posted By Findsman: though if you're into buying Romanian guns, original factory finish may not be one of your foremost concerns.


I don't know.. but that one just cracked me up!!!!!

Seriously though... bad finish or not, I'd love to have one of these.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 7:02:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 7:05:35 PM EST by drone161]
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 10:12:55 PM EST
I see your not the only one who wanted one after shooting his Im looking for one too.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 10:16:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 10:20:57 PM EST by TallGuyInSFL]

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I see your not the only one who wanted one after shooting his Im looking for one too.



Here you go.
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21184184
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21446884
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21209213
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21250072
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21434422

It bothers me to no end when these guys label these as Russian Dragunovs.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 10:25:08 PM EST
Cheesy knockoff of a Dragunov. Not even really a Drag at all.
Link Posted: 8/5/2004 12:05:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By TallGuyInSFL:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I see your not the only one who wanted one after shooting his Im looking for one too.



Here you go.
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21184184
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21446884
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21209213
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21250072
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21434422

It bothers me to no end when these guys label these as Russian Dragunovs.



Local gunstore tried to sell a Romak as a Russian Dragunov to me.
Link Posted: 8/5/2004 12:10:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By TallGuyInSFL:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I see your not the only one who wanted one after shooting his Im looking for one too.



Here you go.
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21184184
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21446884
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21209213
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21250072
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21434422

It bothers me to no end when these guys label these as Russian Dragunovs.



Local gunstore tried to sell a Romak as a Russian Dragunov to me.



The one I like is when guys try to sell Tigr SVD's for the price of a California Tigr SVD!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2004 5:44:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/5/2004 10:01:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 10:54:46 PM EST
I have one of the early imports (1999). I really like it.
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 6:21:30 AM EST
Where can I find out about real Drags? Are they gas operated or gas-piston?
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 6:26:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 9:16:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2004 10:05:15 AM EST by dragunov]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 3:46:22 PM EST
I bought one in early '99 I believe.
I didn't inspect it close enough when I bought it and was seriously disappointed when I did.
I was so excited to get something resembling the dragunov.
Problems:
-crappy park job with dark rust spots starting to appear.
-silver solder? smeared on the barrel close to the handguard, would not 'blue' with any of the chemicals available.
-bent muzzle-break
-canted gas-block
-front sight out of alignment
-lots of machining marks everywhere.
-5rd mag cheap chop job wouldn't feed dummy rounds when tested.
-could move scope back on rail 1/16" when locked.

Never could even be bothered to take it to the range I was so disgusted.
Sold it unfired in '02 for the $800 I paid for it minus a $30 consignment charge.

I still want one though and probably will buy one if and when I find one in better condition mechanically.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 3:52:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 4:28:13 PM EST
FWIW I have a friend who's selling like-new Romak-3 w/extra mags, RSA trigger group, Z-Recto stock (sp?), scope & 400rds of Wolf for $750 (he's saving for an NDM-86). His email address is t_dugan@charter.net .
Tomac
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:03:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 6:25:09 PM EST by obershutze916]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:08:03 PM EST
Thanks Obershutze916!!!

Your information really helped me!

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:16:06 AM EST
I am the one who Tomac refered to with the Romak 3 / PSL for sale. I pretty much agree with everything being said here, these are pretty good rifles for the money. I would not be selling mine but I have the opportunity to purchase a NDM-86 in 308 and the wife wont let me have both hehe. It seems to be a really well built rifle and it really likes the Wolf 148 grain ammo. The heavier ammo (i have not shot any out of this gun) I have heard is too abusive to the gun. Anyways, here are a couple of pictures of mine if anyone is interested. Gun is in like new factory condition.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/26485drag_003.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/26485ssg97_001-med.jpg
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:41:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:25:06 AM EST
Sorry about kinda posting a for sale in the wrong area. I will go ahead and put up a formal ad in the equipment exchange. Thanks for the heads up.

Tom
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