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Posted: 5/5/2012 7:10:41 PM EDT
Has anyone seen any info on Jim Fuller's production AK? I read about it in Recoil magazine, which said that it, along with the Haley Strategic Edition, will be offered soon!




Link Posted: 5/5/2012 7:17:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
Has anyone seen any info on Jim Fuller's production AK? I read about it in Recoil magazine, which said that it, along with the Haley Strategic Edition, will be offered soon!

http://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/04/1206-06-o+rifle-dynamics-RD-74+special-edition.jpg


http://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/04/1206-04-o+rifle-dynamics-RD-74+side-view-958x638.jpg






Just another converted Saiga for over $1K.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 7:34:11 PM EDT
An SGL 31-84 is around $1200. The RD carbine will have a custom finish, polished action and excellent quality control. I think that it is a bargain, when compared to what people are paying to have these mods done to a plain jane $800 Arsenal...
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 8:36:58 PM EDT
A whole lot more than a basic conversion!!!!!!!!!!
     Not just that but a Battle Comp brake pinned on a recrowned barrel where the overal length is 16.25 to include the brake !  Also a color choice Black or Grey moly resin coating and choice of foldinf triangle, a 103 style folding stock ,or a Vltor stock with adjustable Mil spec extension tube and Ultimak front end with their Bolton gasblock II and  all tuned and polished ,accurized shaving off @1.5lbs with a 8-9 week wait time as opposed to the estimated 8-9 month wait if you send them your Saiga !! Mine is in the order process!!!!  nobodys forcing anyone to buy one of theese guns ! If you don't see the value ,don't buy one !!!
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 8:40:03 PM EDT
the rifle set up is nothing new..you can find numerous rifles set up the same way in various pic threads..
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 9:53:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aeromat209:
A whole lot more than a basic conversion!!!!!!!!!!
     Not just that but a Battle Comp brake pinned on a recrowned barrel where the overal length is 16.25 to include the brake !  Also a color choice Black or Grey moly resin coating and choice of foldinf triangle, a 103 style folding stock ,or a Vltor stock with adjustable Mil spec extension tube and Ultimak front end with their Bolton gasblock II and  all tuned and polished ,accurized shaving off @1.5lbs with a 8-9 week wait time as opposed to the estimated 8-9 month wait if you send them your Saiga !! Mine is in the order process!!!!  nobodys forcing anyone to buy one of theese guns ! If you don't see the value ,don't buy one !!!


Need more exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just messing with you, man. It's not a bad deal for what you actually get. If I didn't already have my SLR-106CR, I would consider one of these.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 9:56:02 PM EDT
Determining level of want.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 10:02:28 PM EDT
screw on gas block on an ak. out of
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 10:45:00 PM EDT
Almost $3000? Are you nuts?

Basic saiga with a folding stock mod, US palm battle grip, bolton gas block, ultimak, the battle comp, and a refinish does not equal anywhere close to $3000. Oh yeah, I forgot about the deburring and fit and finish.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 12:21:43 AM EDT
retarded price is retarded.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 2:26:47 AM EDT
I guess I missed the price. Where was it listed?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 11:05:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
I guess I missed the price. Where was it listed?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Here.

It does state that MSRP is $1700, but as featured is almost $3000. Not sure what the "basic" model is.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 11:28:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
I guess I missed the price. Where was it listed?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Here.

It does state that MSRP is $1700, but as featured is almost $3000. Not sure what the "basic" model is.


Yeah... I misread that initially. $1700 fully loaded, with optics, ultimak, etc. is a good price for a good product. 3K is outright stupid. The only way I'm paying 3K for an AK is if it is one of those Saddam Hussein's gold-plated AKs with ivory grips.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 12:39:08 PM EDT
lol
 
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 1:58:47 PM EDT
WTF is durburring???!!!! I keep hearing about this bs. If an AK is too pointy or sharp for you, go buy another weapons...



Now on to the rifle itself. I have heard good and bad things about these bolt on FSB. I haven't tried them so I have no room to really say anything, but they don't seem like a great idea to me. Comp can be bought and installed at home, same with the recrown, so that holds nothing over on me. They could at least get rid of the square on the receiver.



Spending this much $ on a Saiga conversion is crazy IMO. Do it yourself, save the $ and pick and choose what you want.



It does look good though


 
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 2:10:49 PM EDT



Originally Posted By nictra:


WTF is durburring???!!!! I keep hearing about this bs. If an AK is too pointy or sharp for you, go buy another weapons...



Now on to the rifle itself. I have heard good and bad things about these bolt on FSB. I haven't tried them so I have no room to really say anything, but they don't seem like a great idea to me. Comp can be bought and installed at home, same with the recrown, so that holds nothing over on me. They could at least get rid of the square on the receiver.



Spending this much $ on a Saiga conversion is crazy IMO. Do it yourself, save the $ and pick and choose what you want.



It does look good though

 


Fiddy!



 
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 2:35:43 PM EDT
The price is 1700. for the whole gun not for the conversion .without an optic. I don't know where someone got the price up tp 3K?
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 2:45:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aeromat209:
The price is 1700. for the whole gun not for the conversion .without an optic. I don't know where someone got the price up tp 3K?


From their website: (see the red highlight).  If the only difference is the adding the optic, that's one damn expensive red dot for an additional $1300.

MAKE: RIFLE DYNAMICS
MODEL: RD-74
CALIBER: 5.45X39MM
BARREL LENGTH: 16.25 INCHES (INCLUDING PINNED COMPENSATOR)
MINIMUM OVERALL LENGTH: 33.5 INCHES
MAXIMUM OVERALL LENGTH: 36.25 INCHES
MAGAZINE CAPACITY: 30 ROUND, BOX MAGAZINE
WEIGHT UNLOADED: 6 POUNDS
WEIGHT UNLOADED AS FEATURED: 7 POUNDS, 4 OUNCES
MSRP: $1,700
PRICE AS FEATURED: $2,983
URL: WWW.RIFLEDYNAMICS.COM
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 2:46:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aeromat209:
The price is 1700. for the whole gun not for the conversion .without an optic. I don't know where someone got the price up tp 3K?



The 3k is for the gun priced as featured with the H-1, HSP Thorntail, UBR stock, and a surefire m300a. Stock MSRp without any of the goodies is $1700

Link Posted: 5/6/2012 2:51:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Farmer-Ted:
Originally Posted By Aeromat209:
The price is 1700. for the whole gun not for the conversion .without an optic. I don't know where someone got the price up tp 3K?


From their website: (see the red highlight).  If the only difference is the adding the optic, that's one damn expensive red dot for an additional $1300.

MAKE: RIFLE DYNAMICS
MODEL: RD-74
CALIBER: 5.45X39MM
BARREL LENGTH: 16.25 INCHES (INCLUDING PINNED COMPENSATOR)
MINIMUM OVERALL LENGTH: 33.5 INCHES
MAXIMUM OVERALL LENGTH: 36.25 INCHES
MAGAZINE CAPACITY: 30 ROUND, BOX MAGAZINE
WEIGHT UNLOADED: 6 POUNDS
WEIGHT UNLOADED AS FEATURED: 7 POUNDS, 4 OUNCES
MSRP: $1,700
PRICE AS FEATURED: $2,983
URL: WWW.RIFLEDYNAMICS.COM


From the article:

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff482/laddmc/photo.png
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 4:32:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By nictra:
WTF is durburring???!!!! I keep hearing about this bs. If an AK is too pointy or sharp for you, go buy another weapons...

Now on to the rifle itself. I have heard good and bad things about these bolt on FSB. I haven't tried them so I have no room to really say anything, but they don't seem like a great idea to me. Comp can be bought and installed at home, same with the recrown, so that holds nothing over on me. They could at least get rid of the square on the receiver.

Spending this much $ on a Saiga conversion is crazy IMO. Do it yourself, save the $ and pick and choose what you want.

It does look good though
 


You hear that a lot from some of these builders esp this one....smoothing the action etc.  Marketing ploy.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 4:42:50 PM EDT
Wow, this is stupid.  Anyone with a slight bit of mechanical ability could do this themselves for far cheaper.  Hell, you could farm out some of the work to other smiths and still build the same thing for less money.

But I guess if you are a Haley or RD fanboy then this will appeal to you.  Just sleep well knowing the same thing could be had for far cheaper, it just won't have that cute little dragonfly engraved on the side.

Well, at least their rifles will be more reliable than other AK's because it has a smoothed action.  Oh wait, all AKs are reliable... smooth action or not.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 6:14:07 PM EDT
I think that if you break down the prices, a folding stock arsenal with all of the same upgraded parts, will be pretty close in price. You are basically getting a custom AK for for a couple hundred dollars over the price of an arsenal.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 6:23:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 6:24:55 PM EDT by dskeet]
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
I think that if you break down the prices, a folding stock arsenal with all of the same upgraded parts, will be pretty close in price. You are basically getting a custom AK for for a couple hundred dollars over the price of an arsenal.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


That is true.  But one could start with a $450 Saiga that has the front end converted already.  Move the trigger forward yourself.  Pay someone to installed the folding stock for you and cut the barrel and install the battlecomp.

Saiga $450
Stock parts $300
Stock install and refinish rifle $300
Cut barrel, install whatever brake you want $100

That's at $1150 right there for basically the same thing.  Knock $400 off that if you have some mechanical skill to do some work yourself.  $1700-$3000 for that.. get real.

Funny to me that the AR stocks are upgrades on this rifle, and cost more... when they actually take less work to install and parts cost roughly the same.  The bare bones $1700 rifle isn't horribly overprised, but the $3000 thing has to be a joke.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 6:46:34 PM EDT
I would put money that a 100 series folding stock isnt part of the $1700 package, I almost know it isnt. I think the haley rifle it comes standard but on the basic rifle I believe its a upgrade, probably much more than the magpul. Thats the way it was worded in recoil and plus those tsd/rd ak's from a couple months ago didnt have them like everyone thought they would at the same price point.
I LOVE rifle dynamics for what there doing though, making tiers to the ak for over priced crap so AR fanboi's will come over here and be jeleous of our crappy ak's lolololmao! Hahaha fools! That ak is tier one yo! Yall agree? Or is it better for this to stay on the ar side?
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 6:46:41 PM EDT
I've seen some of their work that was beyond "hacked". I'll pass.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 7:06:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dskeet:
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
I think that if you break down the prices, a folding stock arsenal with all of the same upgraded parts, will be pretty close in price. You are basically getting a custom AK for for a couple hundred dollars over the price of an arsenal.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


That is true.  But one could start with a $450 Saiga that has the front end converted already.  Move the trigger forward yourself.  Pay someone to installed the folding stock for you and cut the barrel and install the battlecomp.

Saiga $450
Stock parts $300
Stock install and refinish rifle $300
Cut barrel, install whatever brake you want $100

That's at $1150 right there for basically the same thing.  Knock $400 off that if you have some mechanical skill to do some work yourself.  $1700-$3000 for that.. get real.

Funny to me that the AR stocks are upgrades on this rifle, and cost more... when they actually take less work to install and parts cost roughly the same.  The bare bones $1700 rifle isn't horribly overprised, but the $3000 thing has to be a joke.


I agree that you could build a great rifle for cheaper, but you are not figuring in the cost of the Battlecomp, Ultimak, Bolton gasblock, trigger job or moly resin finish. If these things aren't important to you, then you aren't the intended market, but you can't deny that they add expense to the build. Those items I just listed add up to close if not more than the difference between your estimate of $1150 and the sticker price of $1700.

Link Posted: 5/6/2012 7:08:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I've seen some of their work that was beyond "hacked". I'll pass.


Really? That is the first negative comment I've ever seen about their products.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 8:17:40 PM EDT
Jim Fuller does awsome work. When I got my stamp back on my 107UR I sent it to Jim. He cut it down, crowned it, engraved my SBR info, and refinished . It looks and works great. Those prices are not out of line when you throw in the rifle, stock parts, labor, refinish, muzzle device, ultimak, ect... Then throw in the optic, light, magpul stock and it gets really high. The price sounds high until you think about how an $800 dollar AR build ends up having 3000 in it after it has lights, optics BUIS, Magpul stuff, ect...... Could you do all the work your self? maybe, Could you do it cheaper or have it done cheaper? yes. Will it be more reliable then any other AK? prob not. Do you need any of those features? prob not, but you can ask all these same questions about AR15s too and have the same answers. if you buy one of Jim's rifles it will work great!
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 11:24:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cptx123:
screw on gas block on an ak. out of


Agreed. It's very suspect. I've done some reading on it and it's certainly not ideal.

Link Posted: 5/7/2012 4:01:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2012 4:02:35 AM EDT by evlblkwpnz]
Originally Posted By BillythePoet:
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I've seen some of their work that was beyond "hacked". I'll pass.


Really? That is the first negative comment I've ever seen about their products.

Really. It was shockingly bad. I thought I had seen some rough attempts before, but apparently I hadn't. It was a 5.5mm AK100 retrofit on a Saiga 12. They might be great with AK kit builds, but cutting receivers is apparently not something that they can pull off with success every time. It was the worst AK100 install that I have ever seen from an allegedly professional shop. Whoever let that out the door would certainly be fired if I owned that shop. I have done a few AK100 retrofits on Saiga 12s and it is not really something that can be done fast enough to make a good profit when compared to other AK related operations such as kit building, etc.. Many shops just won't do it, period, even those that specialize in Saiga 12s. From what I saw, RD should stick to what falls within their regular operations.  

Link Posted: 5/7/2012 7:29:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
Originally Posted By cptx123:
screw on gas block on an ak. out of


Agreed. It's very suspect. I've done some reading on it and it's certainly not ideal.



I would consider it a downgrade personally, whether it has issues or not.
Link Posted: 5/7/2012 7:45:31 PM EDT
I sent an email to rifle dynamics requesting a price quote on the "Haley" edition AK setup exactly as in the pic, minus the Aimpoint, and was quoted $1765 out the door.  In case anyone was wondering.

Also, there is a new version of the Bolton gas block that allows you to pin it.  It is not available yet, however.  I would assume it would cost the same price as their bolt on gas block at $100.

New Saiga with triangle stock = $1,155
gas block = $100
barrel cut/thread = $85
Muzzle brake = $150
Enhanced safety = $60
US Palm grip = $30
Ultimak = $100

total = $1680

That's what I came up with.  This is buying all parts myself and outsourcing the barrel cut/thread.  I have considered doing this my self (minus a few parts I don't think are necessary) and saving a few bucks.  And  the wait time on a RD rifle is 6+ months at this time... where I could have/get the above done by the end of the week.
Link Posted: 5/7/2012 8:16:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
Originally Posted By cptx123:
screw on gas block on an ak. out of


Agreed. It's very suspect. I've done some reading on it and it's certainly not ideal.



If someone who makes a living off their rifle trusts it, so do I.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/8/2012 4:18:25 AM EDT
if and when they come out with a pin on unit I will seriously consider it. I like the look of their FSB, just don't trust screws on a rifle.
 
Link Posted: 5/8/2012 4:42:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By nictra:
if and when they come out with a pin on unit I will seriously consider it. I like the look of their FSB, just don't trust screws on a rifle.  


I emailed RD about if they were selling the updated version yet, as I want to use it for an Arsenal build I'm doing. They said they are using it for current RD builds but do not sell them directly and you have to go through venom tactical. I will ping VT today and see if they are selling the updated version yet - it does not appear so from their website.
Link Posted: 5/8/2012 10:47:52 AM EDT
Talked to Venom Tactical today. If you buy the one on their site, you will get the new version of the Bolton Block that you can pin.
Link Posted: 5/8/2012 10:39:07 PM EDT
My goodness, I m not sure what has caused some of you guys to get so hateful on a gunsmith whose great reputation is much more established than probably anyone on here
(if you want to argue that or trash me please just send me a PM so the thread doesnt regress that way)

When you see that expensive Magpul stock and the Surefire light as part of the package offered, if you have any common sense at all, you should immediately realize what price point and type of customer the weapon is designed for.  If you want bare bones, then send RD a parts kit or generic Saiga and get a basic workover at a more competitive price.  From some of the following posts that hilight the details and show how wrong some statements were, it appears that perhaps some of the critical comments may have occured from an over eagerness to trash someone else or they simply chose not to read all the details.

Comparing professional gunshop pricing with what it cost someone to work at their leisure in their own garage makes a whole lot of sense right?  What DIY project isnt going to be cheaper than a professional?  You go around trashing your plumber or carpenter, etc also?

There was one recent S12 weapon posted elsewhere that was unacceptable and as soon as J.Fuller was notified he immediately acknowledged it and offered a couple diffedrent resolutions to the customer. Making a judgement on the shops work based on that one job and discounting everything else is rather simple minmded IMO.  Everyone's free to their own opinion but its not fair to spout impulsive, negative, trash about a business based on inadequate supportive evidence.

I dont see how its possible to say one builder is better than another.  Ive seen a lot of incredible weapons built by many different people - including non liscensed folks. Everyones experiences are unique to their transactions with each businesses they deal with.  I doubt that any established business could swear that they havent had screwups within all the transactions with customers.  How you handle the problem is the sign of a good business IMO.  Most every weapon Ive ever seen come out of RD is not just OK, but Outstanding and any problems Ive ever heard of were addressed professionally- unlike some other arrogant businessmen who immediately question the buyer, call him childish names, or make excuses, etc.

Harv
Link Posted: 5/8/2012 11:11:14 PM EDT
That is expensive Magpul stock is only $5 more than the other stock they offer(the AK sidefolder, triangle and poly).  I'm still trying to figure out what setup one has to order to get a $2900 bill for this rifle... because a Magpul stock and a surefire for sure shouldn't bump the price $1200.
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 4:21:53 AM EDT
Aimpoint, mount and a surefire might...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 4:35:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dskeet:
That is expensive Magpul stock is only $5 more than the other stock they offer(the AK sidefolder, triangle and poly).  I'm still trying to figure out what setup one has to order to get a $2900 bill for this rifle... because a Magpul stock and a surefire for sure shouldn't bump the price $1200.


Aimpoint t1 - $627
HSP Thorntail - $70
UBR - $265
M300A - $345
= $1307 of addons

Link Posted: 5/9/2012 5:20:39 AM EDT
Quality Control > Damage Control.... when it comes to running a business.
Everything that ends up in a customers hands is a direct reflection of the value that a business places on its customers.
Hopefully, Jim can move forward in a positive direction from here and restore his pride in craftsmanship. I wish him the best in his efforts.
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 6:27:44 AM EDT
Red jacket endorses Rifle Dynamics. There's pictures of them posing with Fuller all over his website. Pair that with such ingenious products as a "bolt on" gas block, and that's all I need to know to stay away.
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 7:16:22 AM EDT
Wow, I just don’t understand this level of disgust towards RD. When any of the top shooters in the industry need an AK, they go to Jim. Jim is always one of the top 4 or 5 AK gunsmiths mentioned when people ask in the forums. The only downside to RD is the wait time and that’s indicative of their work.

Jim and his team are doing a ton right now for the AK movement. This is a big deal and should not be understated. As more of a spotlight is placed on the AK, more shooters will see the strengths of the platform and that helps all AK shooters in helping to progress the platform. This leads to better accessories, availability of great rifles, and newer more updated ammunition.

Every business has mess-ups but it’s how they handle those mess-ups that shows the true integrity of the business. I don’t know enough about this individual case to speak to it, but I have seen RD’s work and it is some of the best in the business. It sounds like there was a big mess up but it also sounds like RD apologized and tried to make it right. Did they make it right? I don’t know but that is for that individual customer to decide.
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 4:56:46 PM EDT
I guess since Tony Rumore was on Sons of Guns and was pictured  with Will he must suck to.
Haters gonna hate.
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 5:03:26 PM EDT
for those interested in a gas block front sight combo.....kreb's is shipping his today. it aint no screw on but a press/pin on. i may silver solder it.
i waited for awhile for these to be come and have a saiga in parts just choppin' for this.
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 5:04:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By themonk:
Originally Posted By dskeet:
That is expensive Magpul stock is only $5 more than the other stock they offer(the AK sidefolder, triangle and poly).  I'm still trying to figure out what setup one has to order to get a $2900 bill for this rifle... because a Magpul stock and a surefire for sure shouldn't bump the price $1200.


Aimpoint t1 - $627
HSP Thorntail - $70
UBR - $265
M300A - $345
= $1307 of addons



Really, none of these price breakdowns mean anything until they release info on what the rifle comes with and what price point.  Everything from the base model to the $2900 one.

If the base rifle comes with an AK type sidefolder... well, they are priced basically the same as the Magpul UBR and require way more work to install.  If the Magpul stock was a costly upgrade from that it would be a total rip off.  We shall see.
Link Posted: 5/9/2012 6:12:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dskeet:
Originally Posted By themonk:
Originally Posted By dskeet:
That is expensive Magpul stock is only $5 more than the other stock they offer(the AK sidefolder, triangle and poly).  I'm still trying to figure out what setup one has to order to get a $2900 bill for this rifle... because a Magpul stock and a surefire for sure shouldn't bump the price $1200.


Aimpoint t1 - $627
HSP Thorntail - $70
UBR - $265
M300A - $345
= $1307 of addons



Really, none of these price breakdowns mean anything until they release info on what the rifle comes with and what price point.  Everything from the base model to the $2900 one.

If the base rifle comes with an AK type sidefolder... well, they are priced basically the same as the Magpul UBR and require way more work to install.  If the Magpul stock was a costly upgrade from that it would be a total rip off.  We shall see.

+1  If it comes with an AK100 sidefolder, then we may as well call that $500-550 for the stock and the labor.

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:21:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By finishman2000:
for those interested in a gas block front sight combo.....kreb's is shipping his today. it aint no screw on but a press/pin on. i may silver solder it.
i waited for awhile for these to be come and have a saiga in parts just choppin' for this.


Do you have a link to this GB/sight combo?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:49:54 AM EDT
you can repaint , add all the acc. to it redo barrel crow,ect....all in all.......................ITS STILL AN AK.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:01:36 AM EDT
What is the angle of the gas hole in the gas block? will this work with both 7.62 and 5.45 gas port angles? Thanks!
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