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Posted: 7/20/2016 12:16:40 AM EDT
Just took a closer look at the front trunnion of my new RAS47. The rear part of the trunnion that houses the left trunnion lug is bent outward. When the bolt is fully locked, only about 20% of the left bolt lug face makes contact with the trunnion lug, not the full lug surface is being used! Now, this small bolt lug surface has to suck up all the bolt thrust, which causes already metal deformation/metal folding on the bolt lug face, due to the trunnion lug face not being parallel with the bolt lug face. This rifle has only 60 rounds of American Eagle through it!







Link Posted: 7/20/2016 12:24:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Only 60 rounds? Wow. I would suggest purchasing a no-go gauge to check headspace periodically. The bend of the trunnion could be a manufacturing defect or a result of the soft steel giving way to the pressures of firing.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 12:36:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Yes only 60 rounds. Got the rifle a few days ago. I will contact the store where I ordered it on their website to see if they take it back, they probably won't but I will give it a try. Sending it back to Century is a waste of time and money. They either do nothing and ship it back to me, or they replace the trunnion with another POS trunnion. This company has done nothing from serial #1 to 47,189 to fix the issues they were having from the beginning. It's unbelievable. Shame on them, and shame on me for not doing enough research before buying.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 1:25:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Yeah that sliver of wear on the left locking lug of the bolt is probably the only area supporting the bolt on that side, when in battery, due to the bend in the trunnion. The left trunnion locking lug face is not true parallel to the face of the chamber, due to this bend, so it will not match up with the helix cut surface on the bolt lug..

Despite all that, it could potentially run that way for a long time.. But if/when it starts to lose headspace, I would not want to find out if that particular failure accelerates to catastrophic levels in short manner.

I bet there is someone brave out there that would chuck up the trunnion in a press or vise, bend that lug arm back flat, and run with it. I'm not that guy myself.

I would no longer shoot that rifle myself.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 1:39:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Get rid of that RAS as soon as possible....way too many known issues with them and most people who don't know better will fall for the price and "made in USA" marketing......
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 1:47:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah that sliver of wear on the left locking lug of the bolt is probably the only area supporting the bolt on that side, when in battery, due to the bend in the trunnion. The left trunnion locking lug face is not true parallel to the face of the chamber, due to this bend, so it will not match up with the helix cut surface on the bolt lug..

Despite all that, it could potentially run that way for a long time.. But if/when it starts to lose headspace, I would not want to find out if that particular failure accelerates to catastrophic levels in short manner.

I bet there is someone brave out there that would chuck up the trunnion in a press or vise, bend that lug arm back flat, and run with it. I'm not that guy myself.

I would no longer shoot that rifle myself.
View Quote



Exactly, you explained it better than me. This rifle might run a few thousand rounds until it's completely done, but I don't want such a rifle in my safe. I can't even look at it right now. A lot of people have the same exact wear on their RAS47 bolt lugs. I guess they haven't noticed the deformed trunnion yet, which causes this abnormal premature wear on the bolt lugs. Most believe the soft steel of the bolt is the only cause of this wear.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 10:12:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Why does anybody even gamble with Century's trash anymore?
TONS of information out there for you to learn to avoid those crooks
Link Posted: 7/21/2016 12:38:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why does anybody even gamble with Century's trash anymore?
TONS of information out there for you to learn to avoid those crooks
View Quote

Because, sadly, many people walk into a LGS without doing any research (or spur of the moment interest upon visual of one) and ask the LGS clerk about it. Most LGS clerks know NOTHING about AK's (and probably only a little about anything else). People know they're not going to get a "steal" at any specialist retailer (ex: climbing, camping, watersports, etc..), but they DO expect the clerks to at least know a bit about their sport (and profession). Sadly this isn't the case at all (especially with gun stores). So, they push what they have the most of (and is the cheapest/easiest sell). Enter the RAS. Looks nice, the LGS is easily resupplied with them, and they're cheap (oh, and add the "made in US" nostalgia). Bingo. Easy sale. Not like the clerk knows any difference, as he's not an enthusiast of AK's anyway (although you're likely to find at least one AR fan behind the counter).
So the new RAS owner takes it home... then is all proud and checks out forums about his new purchase, only to be completely floored by the crap he just paid for. So, the "denial" part of them sets in, and they say to themselves "no, this can't be right"... thus the "defensive" part starts. Soon (if they actually USE it)... they, too, start to finally realize their mistake. By that time, thousands o others are just entering the "proud new owner" phase... and the cycle continues.
Hopefully CAI gets hit with a HUGE lawsuit for jeopardizing the safety of users for this product and is FORCED to recall/refund them. That's the only way to break this cycle (as I'd venture more than half of new AK owners buy on whim, without researching).
Link Posted: 7/21/2016 9:20:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why does anybody even gamble with Century's trash anymore?
TONS of information out there for you to learn to avoid those crooks
View Quote


I applaud Century for trying to make American-made AKs.  I wanted one of the C39v2 ones or the RAS47 when they came out but decided to wait to see what users said.  Proud I did.  I can wait until they get it right.  The problem seems to be that they just keep cranking them out the same instead of fixing them when the issues are pointed out.  They should fix and move forward, even if it means raising the price a little to get proper parts.  The more they crank out bad ones, the more they'll wreck their already bad reputation further.  

ETA:  If they fix it silently, no one will know they can trust the new ones.  How hard would it be to change "2" to "3" or make an RAS47v2 and put non-cast parts in there?
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 12:26:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I applaud Century for trying to make American-made AKs.  I wanted one of the C39v2 ones or the RAS47 when they came out but decided to wait to see what users said.  Proud I did.  I can wait until they get it right.  The problem seems to be that they just keep cranking them out the same instead of fixing them when the issues are pointed out.  They should fix and move forward, even if it means raising the price a little to get proper parts.  The more they crank out bad ones, the more they'll wreck their already bad reputation further.  

ETA:  If they fix it silently, no one will know they can trust the new ones.  How hard would it be to change "2" to "3" or make an RAS47v2 and put non-cast parts in there?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why does anybody even gamble with Century's trash anymore?
TONS of information out there for you to learn to avoid those crooks


I applaud Century for trying to make American-made AKs.  I wanted one of the C39v2 ones or the RAS47 when they came out but decided to wait to see what users said.  Proud I did.  I can wait until they get it right.  The problem seems to be that they just keep cranking them out the same instead of fixing them when the issues are pointed out.  They should fix and move forward, even if it means raising the price a little to get proper parts.  The more they crank out bad ones, the more they'll wreck their already bad reputation further.  

ETA:  If they fix it silently, no one will know they can trust the new ones.  How hard would it be to change "2" to "3" or make an RAS47v2 and put non-cast parts in there?

Because they are stuck between a rock and hard place. They tried to trick their consumers. They touted "best AK ever" yet pushed out crap. So now they got caught with their pants down (bless the internet for the fast info) and didn't expect to get caught so quickly in their BS. So now they are in this perpetual "defensive" mode... constantly trying to defend their junk product to save their reputation. Now, if they moved to a "3"... people would ask WHY. Supposedly (according to them), they already make the BEST... so a "3" or changes would be admitting fault.
They are screwed. There are 3 ways this could go:
1) They do nothing and continue on (as is their current course) pretending nothing is wrong.
Issue: when someone blows their face off... it's game over for CAI. Followed by a total recall of them. Followed by lawsuits and bankruptcy. Done.
2) (preferred) they do a recall/refund. This will bankrupt them (temporarily) and kill their rep. But they'll live another day to slowly build their rep back up (could take a decade).
Issue: They don't want this (even though it's the course any company would take), because they're greedy and won't settle for the temp loss.
3), they quickly cease production and push out a (proper) "3".
Issue: sill LOT'S of 2's out there waiting to blow up in someone's face, and that won't go away. Also would be admitting there was a problem, which they won't do (due to above two reasons).
Bottom line is they waited TOO long after KNOWING what the problem is and their inaction will be their doom. They are screwed. Simple as that. It's not a question of "if"... it's a question of "when". They have made the most fatal decision a company could make... to CONTINUE making a defective/unsafe product while pretending the issue isn't there. That's corporate suicide.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 10:16:35 PM EDT
[#10]
My C39V2 is running like a champ, I would wish the RAS47 on my worst enemy
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 12:28:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Are the parts higher quality on the C39v2?  Won't it have the same issues if it uses the same parts?

Here's another issue for them - even if one is fine and the other is crap, people like me assume that both are crap because why would you use higher-quality parts on one and crap on the other?  I assume it's all crap.
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 1:09:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are the parts higher quality on the C39v2?  Won't it have the same issues if it uses the same parts?

Here's another issue for them - even if one is fine and the other is crap, people like me assume that both are crap because why would you use higher-quality parts on one and crap on the other?  I assume it's all crap.
View Quote

The C39 is milled, so it uses completely different parts.
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 4:06:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Because they are stuck between a rock and hard place. They tried to trick their consumers. They touted "best AK ever" yet pushed out crap. So now they got caught with their pants down (bless the internet for the fast info) and didn't expect to get caught so quickly in their BS. So now they are in this perpetual "defensive" mode... constantly trying to defend their junk product to save their reputation. Now, if they moved to a "3"... people would ask WHY. Supposedly (according to them), they already make the BEST... so a "3" or changes would be admitting fault.
They are screwed. There are 3 ways this could go:
1) They do nothing and continue on (as is their current course) pretending nothing is wrong.
Issue: when someone blows their face off... it's game over for CAI. Followed by a total recall of them. Followed by lawsuits and bankruptcy. Done.
2) (preferred) they do a recall/refund. This will bankrupt them (temporarily) and kill their rep. But they'll live another day to slowly build their rep back up (could take a decade).
Issue: They don't want this (even though it's the course any company would take), because they're greedy and won't settle for the temp loss.
3), they quickly cease production and push out a (proper) "3".
Issue: sill LOT'S of 2's out there waiting to blow up in someone's face, and that won't go away. Also would be admitting there was a problem, which they won't do (due to above two reasons).
Bottom line is they waited TOO long after KNOWING what the problem is and their inaction will be their doom. They are screwed. Simple as that. It's not a question of "if"... it's a question of "when". They have made the most fatal decision a company could make... to CONTINUE making a defective/unsafe product while pretending the issue isn't there. That's corporate suicide.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why does anybody even gamble with Century's trash anymore?
TONS of information out there for you to learn to avoid those crooks


I applaud Century for trying to make American-made AKs.  I wanted one of the C39v2 ones or the RAS47 when they came out but decided to wait to see what users said.  Proud I did.  I can wait until they get it right.  The problem seems to be that they just keep cranking them out the same instead of fixing them when the issues are pointed out.  They should fix and move forward, even if it means raising the price a little to get proper parts.  The more they crank out bad ones, the more they'll wreck their already bad reputation further.  

ETA:  If they fix it silently, no one will know they can trust the new ones.  How hard would it be to change "2" to "3" or make an RAS47v2 and put non-cast parts in there?

Because they are stuck between a rock and hard place. They tried to trick their consumers. They touted "best AK ever" yet pushed out crap. So now they got caught with their pants down (bless the internet for the fast info) and didn't expect to get caught so quickly in their BS. So now they are in this perpetual "defensive" mode... constantly trying to defend their junk product to save their reputation. Now, if they moved to a "3"... people would ask WHY. Supposedly (according to them), they already make the BEST... so a "3" or changes would be admitting fault.
They are screwed. There are 3 ways this could go:
1) They do nothing and continue on (as is their current course) pretending nothing is wrong.
Issue: when someone blows their face off... it's game over for CAI. Followed by a total recall of them. Followed by lawsuits and bankruptcy. Done.
2) (preferred) they do a recall/refund. This will bankrupt them (temporarily) and kill their rep. But they'll live another day to slowly build their rep back up (could take a decade).
Issue: They don't want this (even though it's the course any company would take), because they're greedy and won't settle for the temp loss.
3), they quickly cease production and push out a (proper) "3".
Issue: sill LOT'S of 2's out there waiting to blow up in someone's face, and that won't go away. Also would be admitting there was a problem, which they won't do (due to above two reasons).
Bottom line is they waited TOO long after KNOWING what the problem is and their inaction will be their doom. They are screwed. Simple as that. It's not a question of "if"... it's a question of "when". They have made the most fatal decision a company could make... to CONTINUE making a defective/unsafe product while pretending the issue isn't there. That's corporate suicide.


OR:

4) Crank out as many as possible to saturate the market with RAS47s knowing that combloc AKs are evaporating and the pre election frenzy has started. Make as much money as possible until overwhelming reports/lawsuits then close doors and file for bankruptcy.
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 8:10:44 PM EDT
[#14]
How likely is it that the RAS47 kills Century entirely?
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 10:34:10 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
The C39 is milled, so it uses completely different parts.
View Quote


I wasn't aware that a milled receiver used a different trunnion.  I've never even held a milled one before.  I did see a C39v2 at Cabelas and thought about buying it at the time, but the lack of a cleaning rod stopped me.    Not joking.  I actually use the cleaning rod and buttstock cleaning kits on my AKs and SKSs.
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 11:00:19 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
How likely is it that the RAS47 kills Century entirely?
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Not very likely unless someone is injured.
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 12:42:04 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


Not very likely unless someone is injured.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
How likely is it that the RAS47 kills Century entirely?


Not very likely unless someone is injured.


Thats what i was thinking to. Remeber the tantal?
Link Posted: 7/29/2016 3:35:21 AM EDT
[#18]
You can't make 100% made in USA AK47 and expect it to retail $600. Obviously very cheap materials are used to keep the production cost down.
Link Posted: 7/29/2016 5:29:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Have a RAS47 (magpul version) myself, no issues, granted I don't have a high round count, but I have no issues with mine. I keep an eye on things as I do with any firearm. Have no issues or worries shooting it. I enjoy the fact that its running strong despite the hate it gets, will update on a post once I hit over a few thousand rounds.
Link Posted: 7/29/2016 6:46:54 AM EDT
[#20]
The missing piece to the Century puzzle is that very few people actually go out and run anything hard. Some buy a rifle and never fire it for years or even at all. Century gets away with it far more than they get called on it. Even when they lose they are winning. As far as lawsuits go, if they haven't tried to get in the State Attorney's (or some other high level official) favor with campaign donations, etc. I would be really surprised. Someone owes them at some level of advantage. They have a good game going, but the sad part is it only works for them. If people totally stop buying the rifles they manufacture they still get to sell the WASRs, etc that they import. They will not lose and it will not hurt them anytime soon. Business is business and sometimes I hate the truth.

Now might be a good time to read the fine print of the materials they send with the rifles they manufacture. There are most likely some protections in there if you know how to comprehend the legal speak.
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