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Posted: 10/6/2004 6:24:28 PM EDT
I've had my SEAK AK-74 for a few months now but never really got serious about sighting it in accurately until now. I've blasted a few hundred rounds at the beginning just to get the feel for the gun and to plink at things, but I decided I should make it more accurate.

I'm using the basic Wolf 5.45 ammo from Sportsman's Guide. I noticed today that several holes are oval shaped where it appears the bullet is starting to tumble, and a couple of holes that look like the bullet turned completely sideways.

Here are some pics:

Same picture, different angle:

Here is a picture comparing the groups I could get with the SEAK (on the left) with my Armalite AR (on the right). Yes, I know the target is upside down, but that's how I stapled it to the backboard, so this is the correct way to post it.

Look at the bottom two on the left side target - these are clearly going sideways. Others are doing the same thing. However, not every bullet is doing this.

I've only ever used one type of ammo in this gun and don't recall this happening before. Any ideas on why this is occurring and what I can do to stop it?

Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:50:28 PM EDT
Man, I dont know. I am waiting on my SEAK II right now. The keyholing seems so inconsistent, plus you said never happened before, my guess is just some bad rounds in that batch of ammo. I would try a different batch/lot or even different brand like barnaul, etc to be sure. I am guessing ammo, not gun.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:52:56 PM EDT
What range?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:02:35 PM EDT

Here is my SEAK I last Saturday at 300 yards shooting Barnaul FMJ. No keyholes.

Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:27:50 PM EDT
Holy Crap. Was that with irons or a scope?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:23:48 PM EDT
Distance was 25 yards with iron sights. I'm now out of Wolf ammo, maybe I can try some other types to see if it happens again.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:19:46 AM EDT
Check your bbl crown and look for buildup in your muzzle brake.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:55:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:38:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 10:51:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RS39:

Originally Posted By JOHNO:
Check your bbl crown and look for buildup in your muzzle brake.

Or if you cut the pre-sunset weld on the brake, it may be wobbling if not fully screwed down.

I didn't do anything to the brake, so I'll check for junk build up. You mean I have to clean this thing?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 11:55:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
nice shooting, robert!

Thanks. I almost worked up a review, but the results were so similar to my other AK results I wanted to retest first. I had some multiple string 50 yard targets that had me thinking I had the most accurate AK ever. It didn't prove out at 100-300 yards, but I may have add issues with cheek to stock weld playing a part. I was using a BSA elcheapo scope at 12x for that target. As soon as I have time to to spend 4 or 5 hours at the range I will do it. I might even add some Wolf ammo to the test.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:10:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:47:33 PM EDT
Oh boy, something else.

I had this happen at roughly the same ranges. 25-70 yards maximum. Same Wolf FMJ ammo. Roughly same frequency (less than 5-6 per 30 rounds) I assumed it couldn't possibly be keyholing. Time to go shooting again.

C'mon baby, someone say this is an ammo issue.

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:04:32 PM EDT
I have never had wolf do that. Worst rounds I have shot in awhile were probably the brown bears I used today. There was noticable less recoil from some shots as others. Some felt like I was shooting a .22 rifle while others felt normal. It was wierd. Had one go 10 feet over the target and hit a pin tree....what is some good 7.62x39 rounds?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:52:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:37:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:34:26 PM EDT
Hey tax_monster... Just curious, but was your target holder firmly in the ground or hanging by something? The change in target angle will give you the tumbling effect. Or you bullet could be tumbling. Either way you shot the shit out of you target. I know I would hate to be on the other side of your paper.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:39:14 PM EDT
The target holder was firmly set. The range where I shot this (LeeKay Center in SLC) has a frame that looks a lot like a football goalpost with a cardboard rectangle stapled to the boards that go on the right and left side. Then there is a 2x2 post that goes into a metal post holder buried in the ground, so the target stand is quite stable, can't spin, turn or twist in the wind, so I'm certain it's not the target itself.

I am trying to find Barnaul ammo here locally but am having a rough time. I will try one last store that I think will have it. If they don't, I'll have to order from the web and wait a week. I'm not really sure how to get the brake off, but I'll take a look at it and play around a little. I think there's just a small spot weld holding it on.

I will post an update with new ammo and brakeless (if possible).

223ordy: As far as the groups on the target, I'm not all that pleased. The distance was only 25 yards and I'm still learning to shoot a rifle. I won't really be happy until I can put all my shots within an inch at 25 yards with the AR, and within 2 inches with the AK. My groups right now are about 4-5". But thanks for the comment.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:08:44 PM EDT
Just one more thought. AR's and AK's accuracy isn't that bad for a battle rifle, but when they are combined with a healthy 30 rounder, I can't help myself but to spray every single round. So what if only a few hit bullseye. The other 27 were just as fun to shoot. Happy shootin'.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:03:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:52:29 PM EDT
Update: I thoroughly cleaned the gun and the brake. Inspected the brake to see to look for any bullet strikes, saw none. Found one whole box of Romanian 5.45 ammo in the entire valley, so I shot that along with another 60 rounds of Wolf. Same result - about 20% of bullets tumbling. Tried to remove the brake to see if that was the problem, but I can't get it off without ruining it.

So, I sent an email to Ohio Rapid Fire to see what they suggest. I may have to send the rifle back to them to tweak. Further updates will be posted when necessary.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:32:46 PM EDT
Sounds like a muzzle problem to me but I am no expert on the problem. New bbl required? More than likely.
Surely aggravating, no doubt. If you are keyholing at 25m you will probably not even be on paper at 50m, much less 100m. Definitely get it resolved.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:39:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 6:52:30 PM EDT by Scotter260]
Forgot to add in my "tagged" post.

Took mine out this past weekend and fired 50 rounds at 25 yards. Was able to find 3 that appeared to be "keyholed".

Attempting to find some Barnaul to purchase and try out.

I thought it must be the ammo since it's keyholing with so few rounds.

Thanks for the posting this question tax_monster.

Also, tax_monster, when Campy says ORF will TREAT YOU RIGHT, HE ISN'T KIDDING. They are absolutely spectacular when it comes to taking care of their customers. I'm one that's had some issues and they took such good care of me that I really don't think they made much money selling me the rifle.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:14:02 PM EDT
Oh, man. I hope this doesnt reflect a common problem with the SEAKs. I am waiting on my SEAKII right now. Good luck to you, I hope it is just a bad lot of ammo.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:36:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
sounds like time for a recrown or new pipe.

let orf handle this. they will not mess around and WILL treat you right.

I've shot exactly 1019 rounds through this gun, I can't imagine the barrel is shot already. I'll post the response I get from ORF when they respond to my email.
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