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Posted: 4/27/2005 4:27:03 PM EDT

story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/krwashbureau/20050427/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_usiraq_arms_exclusive_wa&cid=2270&ncid=1473
Chinese firm linked to smuggled AK-47s picked to supply Iraqi army

By Jonathan S. Landay, Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army has approved the purchase of more than $29 million worth of weapons for the new Iraqi army from a Chinese state-owned company that's under indictment in California in connection with the smuggling of 2,000 AK-47 automatic rifles into the United States in 1996.


The haul remains the largest seizure of smuggled automatic weapons in U.S. history.


Army Lt. Col. Joe Yoswa, a Pentagon spokesman, said the Warren, Mich.-based U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command approved the contract for Poly Technologies after a check into the company's background. The company wasn't among those banned from doing business in the United States, he said.


The Beijing-based firm is to deliver 2,369 light and heavy machine guns, 14,653 AK-47 rifles and 72 million rounds of ammunition worth $29.3 million by Saturday, according to a Pentagon statement.


It isn't clear whether the deal, which comes as the Bush administration is pressing the European Union to maintain an embargo on high-tech arms sales to China, was discussed or approved by higher-ranking officials at the State and Defense departments. Hungary, Poland and Romania, all members of the U.S.-led military coalition in Iraq, could supply the same weapons. China opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.


Poly Technologies won the competitively bid $29.3 million contract in February from The International Trading Establishment, a Jordan-based consortium. The U.S. Army selected the consortium to supply Iraq's fledgling security forces with as much as $174.4 million worth of radios, night-vision equipment, weapons and ammunition. The consortium comprises coalition partners of corporations from the Czech Republic, Spain and Jordan.


Iraq is awash in AK-47s and other weapons, but American commanders want new weapons for the new army.


Dynasty Holding of Atlanta, the name under which Poly Technologies did business in the United States, was charged in the smuggling case, along with 14 co-defendants, including Bao Ping "Robert" Ma, a former Chinese army general who was the firm's U.S. representative, according to the May 1996 federal grand jury indictment.


Ma and three co-defendants were also charged with smuggling 20,000 AK-47 bipods into the United States from China in December 1994.


Ma is a fugitive believed to be in China, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).


The 30-count indictment stemmed from a sting operation mounted by undercover U.S. Treasury and U.S. Customs Service agents, who posed as organized-crime arms dealers.


The agents paid $700,000 for 2,000 fully automatic AK-47s that were shipped into Oakland, Calif., aboard a Chinese-owned vessel from China in March 1996.


The shipment, which had an approximate street value of more than $4 million, also included about 4,000 AK-47 drum magazines capable of holding up to 40 rounds each.


A key figure in the plot who pleaded guilty, Hammond Ku, a resident alien from Taiwan, suggested to the undercover agents that the weapons be sold to "gang bangers," or street gangs, according to an affidavit from a U.S. Customs agent that accompanied the indictment.


Ma is one of five Chinese nationals indicted in the case who are fugitives. Two other Chinese nationals who were charged, a former Poly Technologies export manager and a former export official of another state-run munitions firm, NORINCO, have been convicted in China, said Lori Haley, a spokeswoman for ICE in Laguna Niguel, Calif.


"It's still a pending investigation," said Haley. "As long as they are fugitives, the investigation is still open."


Ma's lawyer, Joseph Russinello, said his client was innocent.

He said the Chinese government had "basically cleared" Ma in the investigation that led to the convictions of the former Poly Technologies and NORINCO export officials.

According to U.S. federal court records, four other defendants have pleaded guilty, including Ku. He pleaded guilty in 1997 to illegal importation and money laundering charges, but has yet to be sentenced.

"Poly Technologies is not on any list of prohibited sources, nor is the U.S., under existing law, regulation or policy, prohibited from using Chinese companies to supply weapons," said Yoswa, the Pentagon spokesman. "There are firms within China that are on the prohibited source list, but Poly Technologies is not one of them."

He also pointed out that a U.S. arms embargo slapped on China after the 1989 massacre that crushed pro-democracy protests in Beijing's Tiananmen Square applies only to American sales of advanced defense technologies to the communist regime.

An Army official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said Army investigators were aware of the link between Poly Technologies and the 1996 weapons smuggling case. But, the official said, Poly Technologies itself was not named in the indictment.

"We looked at Poly Technologies, not Dynasty Holding. Dynasty Holding doesn't exist," the official said.

The official said the background check on the company was conducted by the National Ground Intelligence Center, an Army intelligence agency in Charlottesville, Va.

Poly Technologies was started by the Chinese military as an arms trading corporation. When the government ordered the military to divest itself of numerous businesses, Poly Technologies in 1999 was placed under the central government.

Link Posted: 4/27/2005 4:30:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 4:30:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 5:36:59 PM EDT
So I'm getting $7,200,000 for ammo @ $.10 a round. and $1,298.32 per weapon. Seems a wee bit high to me!
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 5:42:20 PM EDT
WTF?

Link Posted: 4/27/2005 5:44:23 PM EDT
God forbid they actually use AMERICAN companies to supply Iraq with it's new equipment.

Idiots.
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 5:50:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
WTF?

no shit


Link Posted: 4/27/2005 6:04:06 PM EDT
Nice...give the contract to our fucking enemy.......typical US government stupidity.
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 6:30:17 PM EDT
Yea.... now we can run our m1 tanks over these too!!
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 6:46:04 PM EDT
I also was a post on the Bulgarian AK thread in which, the Iraqi National Guard was issued Arsenal AK's from Bulgaria. Makes you wonder how many countries will be shipping AK's to Iraq by the time this is all over. Maybe we'll see some Romy's after while too.
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 8:06:37 PM EDT
can't the Iraqis make their own damn AKs like they used to?
Link Posted: 4/28/2005 1:28:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2005 1:47:38 AM EDT by mobius]

Originally Posted By Darkest2000:
can't the Iraqis make their own damn AKs like they used to?




the vast majority of their military equipement was bought from the soviets...they may have made some home grown AK.....but it didn't add up to probably a tenth of what he was buying, or buying on credit from the soviets, and other countries
Link Posted: 4/28/2005 1:56:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2005 2:03:15 AM EDT by mobius]

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
So I'm getting $7,200,000 for ammo @ $.10 a round. and $1,298.32 per weapon. Seems a wee bit high to me!



you forgot about shipping and handling charges........and according to the news article it has to be delivered by this saturaday.......so that is express shipping

"the Beijing-based firm is to deliver 2,369 light and heavy machine guns, 14,653 AK-47 rifles and 72 million rounds of ammunition worth $29.3 million by Saturday, according to a Pentagon statement"
Link Posted: 4/28/2005 2:01:49 AM EDT
That is insane, let's give a military contract to the most powerful potential adversary of the US

It's friggen stupid at best.

Should have sold em our old surplus M1 carbines. Never know if we might have to face em down again someday. At the very least give the contract to an american company. Howbout Bushmaster 20" ARs?
Link Posted: 4/28/2005 3:51:09 AM EDT
Are we paying in cash or bartering with some of our nuclear warheads?
Link Posted: 4/28/2005 4:23:33 AM EDT
Most of these contracts usually include a ton - a ton! of magazines (I have seen a Colt contract for a country that shall not be named that supplied, I think, two million ! magazines for 50k rifles or so), parts spares, etc.
Link Posted: 4/28/2005 11:15:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chedderboy:
God forbid they actually use AMERICAN companies to supply Iraq with it's new equipment.

Idiots.



Overpriced and no better quality. Simple open competition they want AKs no american company makes AK's in the numbers needed.
Link Posted: 4/28/2005 11:19:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No1Here:
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/krwashbureau/20050427/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_usiraq_arms_exclusive_wa&cid=2270&ncid=1473
Chinese firm linked to smuggled AK-47s picked to supply Iraqi army

By Jonathan S. Landay, Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army has approved the purchase of more than $29 million worth of weapons for the new Iraqi army from a Chinese state-owned company that's under indictment in California in connection with the smuggling of 2,000 AK-47 automatic rifles into the United States in 1996.


The haul remains the largest seizure of smuggled automatic weapons in U.S. history.


Army Lt. Col. Joe Yoswa, a Pentagon spokesman, said the Warren, Mich.-based U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command approved the contract for Poly Technologies after a check into the company's background. The company wasn't among those banned from doing business in the United States, he said.


The Beijing-based firm is to deliver 2,369 light and heavy machine guns, 14,653 AK-47 rifles and 72 million rounds of ammunition worth $29.3 million by Saturday, according to a Pentagon statement.


It isn't clear whether the deal, which comes as the Bush administration is pressing the European Union to maintain an embargo on high-tech arms sales to China, was discussed or approved by higher-ranking officials at the State and Defense departments. Hungary, Poland and Romania, all members of the U.S.-led military coalition in Iraq, could supply the same weapons. China opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.


Poly Technologies won the competitively bid $29.3 million contract in February from The International Trading Establishment, a Jordan-based consortium. The U.S. Army selected the consortium to supply Iraq's fledgling security forces with as much as $174.4 million worth of radios, night-vision equipment, weapons and ammunition. The consortium comprises coalition partners of corporations from the Czech Republic, Spain and Jordan.


Iraq is awash in AK-47s and other weapons, but American commanders want new weapons for the new army.


Dynasty Holding of Atlanta, the name under which Poly Technologies did business in the United States, was charged in the smuggling case, along with 14 co-defendants, including Bao Ping "Robert" Ma, a former Chinese army general who was the firm's U.S. representative, according to the May 1996 federal grand jury indictment.


Ma and three co-defendants were also charged with smuggling 20,000 AK-47 bipods into the United States from China in December 1994.


Ma is a fugitive believed to be in China, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).


The 30-count indictment stemmed from a sting operation mounted by undercover U.S. Treasury and U.S. Customs Service agents, who posed as organized-crime arms dealers.


The agents paid $700,000 for 2,000 fully automatic AK-47s that were shipped into Oakland, Calif., aboard a Chinese-owned vessel from China in March 1996.


The shipment, which had an approximate street value of more than $4 million, also included about 4,000 AK-47 drum magazines capable of holding up to 40 rounds each.

A key figure in the plot who pleaded guilty, Hammond Ku, a resident alien from Taiwan, suggested to the undercover agents that the weapons be sold to "gang bangers," or street gangs, according to an affidavit from a U.S. Customs agent that accompanied the indictment.


Ma is one of five Chinese nationals indicted in the case who are fugitives. Two other Chinese nationals who were charged, a former Poly Technologies export manager and a former export official of another state-run munitions firm, NORINCO, have been convicted in China, said Lori Haley, a spokeswoman for ICE in Laguna Niguel, Calif.


"It's still a pending investigation," said Haley. "As long as they are fugitives, the investigation is still open."


Ma's lawyer, Joseph Russinello, said his client was innocent.

He said the Chinese government had "basically cleared" Ma in the investigation that led to the convictions of the former Poly Technologies and NORINCO export officials.

According to U.S. federal court records, four other defendants have pleaded guilty, including Ku. He pleaded guilty in 1997 to illegal importation and money laundering charges, but has yet to be sentenced.

"Poly Technologies is not on any list of prohibited sources, nor is the U.S., under existing law, regulation or policy, prohibited from using Chinese companies to supply weapons," said Yoswa, the Pentagon spokesman. "There are firms within China that are on the prohibited source list, but Poly Technologies is not one of them."

He also pointed out that a U.S. arms embargo slapped on China after the 1989 massacre that crushed pro-democracy protests in Beijing's Tiananmen Square applies only to American sales of advanced defense technologies to the communist regime.

An Army official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said Army investigators were aware of the link between Poly Technologies and the 1996 weapons smuggling case. But, the official said, Poly Technologies itself was not named in the indictment.

"We looked at Poly Technologies, not Dynasty Holding. Dynasty Holding doesn't exist," the official said.

The official said the background check on the company was conducted by the National Ground Intelligence Center, an Army intelligence agency in Charlottesville, Va.

Poly Technologies was started by the Chinese military as an arms trading corporation. When the government ordered the military to divest itself of numerous businesses, Poly Technologies in 1999 was placed under the central government.





40 rnd drum WTF?? small ass drum, i hate the liberal media
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 4:55:16 AM EDT
Are we the only ones who can figure this out? How much cheaper would it have been to take all of the impounded AK's and instead of destroying them, inspect them, replace parts that need replacing, do a cheap order of synthetic furniture from Arsenal in Bulgaria, parkerize all of your arsenal inspected/refitted AK's and issue then issue them.

Lets get real here. In bulk, you're probably looking at way less than $200 per AK to put in new parts when needed, new furniture and re-finish. Not only that, your spare parts will be readily available.

Since they are buying Chinese rifles, they're going to have to buy Chinese parts for those items that aren't a match for their European counterparts. Not only that, they're rewarding someone who hasn't been particularly supportive of the US, unlike the former Warsaw Pact nations who have supported us and deserve our business.
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:16:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dorsai:
Are we the only ones who can figure this out? How much cheaper would it have been to take all of the impounded AK's and instead of destroying them, inspect them, replace parts that need replacing, do a cheap order of synthetic furniture from Arsenal in Bulgaria, parkerize all of your arsenal inspected/refitted AK's and issue then issue them.

Lets get real here. In bulk, you're probably looking at way less than $200 per AK to put in new parts when needed, new furniture and re-finish. Not only that, your spare parts will be readily available.

Since they are buying Chinese rifles, they're going to have to buy Chinese parts for those items that aren't a match for their European counterparts. Not only that, they're rewarding someone who hasn't been particularly supportive of the US, unlike the former Warsaw Pact nations who have supported us and deserve our business.





It's cheaper, easier, and less time-consuming just to buy new rifles.

The AK's that are found in Iraq and Afghanistan range from new in the crate Soviet AKM's to worn-out, beat to shit examples of just about every variant in existence. Trying to get spares, to say nothing of individually checking thousands of rifles for serviceablity, would be a nightmare.
Link Posted: 5/2/2005 5:07:45 AM EDT
My grandpa ALWAYS alway used the "Green Theory" and said, "Vato, just follow the green trail, it will take you to where the money is."

Alot of politics involved here. + Our gov't is spending OUR hard earned tax dollars over there like drunken sailors.
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 9:40:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Chedderboy:
God forbid they actually use AMERICAN companies to supply Iraq with it's new equipment.

Idiots.



Overpriced and no better quality. Simple open competition they want AKs no american company makes AK's in the numbers needed.



Or, quite honestly, the quality needed, when mass produced.

Don't get me wrong - there's a number of smiths that can turn out a credible product - just not in any capacity.
Link Posted: 5/6/2005 10:35:02 AM EDT
A country that is fucking FLOODED with ARMS and we have to BUY new ones from China? Here's my credit card - charge it.

Only America would do this. The French & Germans are smarter than I thought. Now please excuse me whilst I puke.
Link Posted: 5/29/2005 8:10:50 AM EDT
And think of all those piles of captured AKs that we burned up. You would have thought that those could have been used.
Link Posted: 6/11/2005 12:57:03 AM EDT
Or better yet..... turned into parts kits!
Link Posted: 6/24/2005 8:56:42 PM EDT
Too bad we can't reward the Polish or the Bulgarians with this contract for their help in Iraq.z
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 5:22:07 PM EDT
PolyTech AK's are probably the best bang for the buck AK out there.

What pisses me off is the import ban keeping US citizens from buying them because they're made by the Chinese military, but hey, why not let the government give them millions of dollars instead?!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:09:51 AM EDT
what a waist of cash
they ruined all the ak's now they are paying to replace them
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:10:59 AM EDT
WTF?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:19:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
40 rnd drum WTF?? small ass drum, i hate the liberal media



I think you're missing the point.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:24:45 PM EDT
Didn't we just DESTROY thousands of these?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:45:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 7:46:30 PM EDT by Schulze]
Edit
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:57:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Didn't we just DESTROY thousands of these?


Absolute insanity.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:44:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 9:36:26 PM EDT by steven1513]
Our tax dollars hard at work. This kind of crap will never end if you keep voting for Republicrats.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:00:08 AM EDT



Originally Posted By No1Here:
... Hungary, Poland and Romania, all members of the U.S.-led military coalition in Iraq, could supply the same weapons. China opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. ...



It's inconceivable that we wouldn't reward our (few) allies in this campaign.



...Ma and three co-defendants were also charged with smuggling 20,000 AK-47 bipods into the United States from China in December 1994. ...


"AK-47 bipods"? Can anyone explain what they're talking about?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:44:01 AM EDT
I gotta wonder who thought this one up. With millions of AKs in that country why they have to go and buy new ones. How long can it take to inspect and issue a servicable AK? I'm sure there are a lot of worn out ones, but Saddam had millions of them of various makes and conditions.

It seems like you could use the new crated and servicable grade ones for a few years until the country was more stabilized and pumping thier oil.

I think it was the same genious that decided that all US soldiers should have a gay beret that was made in some country other than our own. If it's an attempt at buying pride for Iraqi soldiers, give me a break. Either they love their country and will fight for it or they won't.

It must be we just have too much money burning a hole in our national pockets.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:04:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zoom:
Too bad we can't reward the Polish or the Bulgarians with this contract for their help in Iraq.z


ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=76&t=69702
Here's a thread full of Bulgarian AK's being used by the Iraqi Army.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 12:40:09 PM EDT
Well, first of all those AK's that were laying all over the ground in Iraq were thrashed. Too many different makes to repair them.

Second, hopefully the Iraqi's won't break their buttstocks off the new rifles

And why the hell are we buying Chinese shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 1:09:25 PM EDT
There are lots of unemployed Iraqis - I think we should have a Baghdad Build Party!
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 12:52:54 PM EDT
I was talking to someone about this and they didnt believe me. They were convinced the US would NEVER buy arms from Red China even for the Iraqi's, Guess I was right
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