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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/26/2005 3:52:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 7:17:44 PM EDT by LArifleMAN]
OK, after reading the artilce in the latest SGN about AK building I have decided that I, as mechanically uninclined as I am, need have a go at it.

Questions:
1) Out of a screw and a rivet build which is easier?
2)Riveting, I don't actually grasp how to do this completely yet and if someone could explain exactly how it is don I would appreciate it.
3)Which kit should I get?
4)Which reciever and from whom?
5)The barrel pin, I don't exactly grasp this so if someone could explain the process of removing and replacing I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, guys.....be gentle and patient
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:20:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 5:17:27 PM EDT by FireBase]
To rivet, you need to make yourself up a tool like this. It's what squeezes those solid steel rivets that hold the trunnion to the receiver.


Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:22:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 5:33:47 PM EDT by FireBase]
The best build duplicates what the factory has done, the rivet build. Why risk drilling into your chamber trying to do a screw build?

I'll tell you what LaRifleMan. I just got in two more Romanian 1986 G rifles and this time I have the camera on the scene. I'll begin to release photos from beginning to end of a rivet build.

This one is the barrel pin you asked about. It's the first place I start in getting the barrel out of the trunnion. I tapered and heat treated a piece of rebar to take tons of pressure and supported the trunnion and barrel so as to not cant the rear sight base. That pin finally popped loose and what a sound they make!





Here's another Romanian with a very, very tight barrel pin. The type of pin that makes you want to just drill it out. Even this one popped loose. I found a rock steady way of holding the trunnion as I crank the press up to all 12 tons. I clamp the rear part of the trunnion tight in a drill press vise with a 1/2" block of steel under the barrel pin area. There is a hole drilled in that block so the barrel pin can pass through it.


Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:23:14 PM EDT
Look! Here's that troublesome little pin. No banging, no drilling, no cursing or bloody knuckles. Now the barrel can ease on out.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:29:18 PM EDT
Set your barrel up like this under the press ram. The trunnion is supported by blocks that span the press. I have two pennies on the face of the chamber, a small piston wrist pin (which is super hardened steel) under the ram. This is much easier to press out than that small barrel pin.


Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:32:47 PM EDT
Is that one of those harbor freight presses?

Thank you for the great pics
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:33:17 PM EDT
Here's the barrel free from it's trunnion. Now we can later do some riveting to the Tapco bent up flat.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:35:10 PM EDT
Yes, sometimes you can get the HF 12 ton press on sale for $99. It comes in three boxes, and needs assembly.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:52:25 PM EDT
tagged.
Looking good so far FB
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:13:31 PM EDT
Take that front trunnion with torched receiver piece still attached and grind those old rivet heads completely off. Use something smaller than a rivet shank to punch through the trunnion whats left of those rivets.



Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:21:24 PM EDT
The front trunnion is out and ready to rivet into the new receiver, which I'll be working on tomorrow. Good night for now!


Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:28:36 PM EDT
Thanks, this is great.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:46:37 AM EDT
Another question:
If I got a kit such as this www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=123&t=296489

would I still have to remove the barrel from the trunion in order to rivet it into the reciever?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 8:25:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 8:26:32 AM EDT by CousinIT50]
Thanks, this will help alot. I am going to get my press from Northern tool thursday, if their not sold out again.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:30:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 1:48:08 PM EDT by FireBase]
With so many different receivers and kits on the market, You really should begin with a receiver that has no trunnion holes. Then the order of build is:

1)Rivet in trigger guard.
2)Slide in front trunnion until it fits against inserted magazine, be sure it's properly latched in. Then measure, mark and drill the 6 correct size holes.
3)Once front trunnion is rivetted, the rear trunnion location can be determined by using the top receiver cover to measure back to the groove in rear trunnion. Mark, measure, and drill these four holes.

I've been building with some known variables, as these are receivers that I make, so I chose to show my build in this order.

This series is geared for the beginner who would like to see dismantle of a parts kit, and some rivet techniques.

Okay lets do some rivetting. Take the new receiver and trunnion.....


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:34:20 PM EDT
Place trunnion into new reciever, line up rivet holes and push rivet in.....


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:37:34 PM EDT
Now, take that modified bolt cutter, place both jaws over each end of the rivet, and keeping everything straight, squeeeeeze that sucka!


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:40:15 PM EDT
Firebase, I IM'ed you about the rivet tool, could you make another one I'd buy it. I'm not so mechanically inclined as to make one of those.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:57:43 PM EDT
See how rivet squeezer can reach into that trunnion....


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:03:50 PM EDT
Rivets get nice and flat on the inside of trunnion....


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:09:15 PM EDT
The rivet squeezer needs to be dimpled out like this to support the rivet head.


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:11:27 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:16:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 11:27:35 AM EDT by QuasiMRW]
LArifleMAN


I have done several screw builds, a couple weld builds, and am now doing some rivet builds. Some of my projects are online on my project page. I have used the fold-n-weld flats, some pre-bent blanks, and am now using flats bent with a press/jig.

My opinion:
Rivets - building with rivets requires more investment in tools (jigs, etc), but once acquired, is quite easy to do. Probably the easiest as far as technical skills go. The barrel removal/re-install steps are the main added complication, requiring tooling and time (if pin is stuck hard)
Screw - A screw build can be easy and cheaper (tool wise), but can be frustrating if done wrong. Breaking a tap inside a hole can really ruin your day, as can drilling too deep. If you are careful with your tools, though, it goes quite quick and easy. Some remove the barrel to make the tapping easier (much easier).
Welding - Welding is just plain easy and produces and non-standard, clean looking build that is just as tough as your welding is good. Obviously, this requires equipement and skill. Ask anyone who uses a spot welder on the rails how nice that is.

I think that you should just go in the direction that most interests you as far as learning and experiencing this hobby. Things such as existing tools, your current skill level, prior experience, feelings about aesthetics, etc, all play a factor in someones choice.

be safe, have fun
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:58:57 AM EDT
You're right Quasi.

That's exactly why I put up some photos showing how involved a rivet build can be. One does need to have basic skills. I'm not a pro builder, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express .

Quite a few people are buying these kits, only to have them lay in the closet for the next 10 years because of that fear of taking the plunge. So, through pictures, I can tell the story of a Romie's rebirth, and let the people decide if it's really worth getting involved with a rifle build.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:56:25 PM EDT
I've made up my mind to do the rivet build but I need one of those rivet squeezers. If one of you guys could make me one I'd be willing to pay for it.

Please IM or email me about it.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:03:54 PM EDT
Firebase, you need to put all of these pics in their own post and then get it tacked. A post like this has been needed for some time.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:42:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 8:11:25 PM EDT by FireBase]
I know a lot of folks here can tell how it's done. I figured I could spend time showing how it's done. I just want to make a little contribution here. A picture is worth a thousand words (and hopefully a thousand AK's).

Right now I'm working on the second segment, the rear trunnion. I'll start a new post with that one.The third segment will be the dreaded trigger guard. Then lastly, it's install the barrel and barrel pin time.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:57:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JimTh:
Firebase, you need to put all of these pics in their own post and then get it tacked. A post like this has been needed for some time.



Yeah it needs a tac.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 9:26:49 AM EDT
Nice tutorial.

However, You should attach the TG first and use a mag to locate the front trunnion.

By mounting the trunnion first, you will now have to make any adjustments necessary, by moving the TG, which is much more difficult
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:41:07 AM EDT
Yes, that would be the technique for using a receiver with no trunnion holes. First trigger guard, front trunnion, then use top receiver cover to space the rear trunnion.

I'm trying to keep it easy for the newbies here that would go out and buy a pre-drilled receiver and hope it's in spec. My folded up Tapco flats are working out good with the Romy Red "G" kits as is. Their holes are pretty close to being exact.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:54:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 10:56:18 AM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By FireBase:
Yes, that would be the technique for using a receiver with no trunnion holes. First trigger guard, front trunnion, then use top receiver cover to space the rear trunnion.

I'm trying to keep it easy for the newbies here that would go out and buy a pre-drilled receiver and hope it's in spec. My folded up Tapco flats are working out good with the Romy Red "G" kits as is. Their holes are pretty close to being exact.



Just a note to be careful here... depending on the kit the holes in the front trunion could need to be relocated... this is why many places are now selling flats without the front trunion holes! I have had to egg out a couple holes on a front trunion in order to get the mag well to work and I saw another gun at a receint build where the builder went and installed the trigger guard and front trunion wthout checking the mag and the mag didn't fit! He had to fix that by grinding away at the mag latch fo the trigger guard which isn't a good idea either...

The best way to do this is as follows...

1. Trigger Guard
2. Set Front trunion based on fit of SEVERAL mags off trigger guard and rivet (or screw)
3. Install and headspace barrel
4. Set rear tunion based on top cover fit off rear sight base and rivet (or screw)

Sometimes the predrilled flats will work perfectly, sometimes they will not... Some of the problems may come from the way they kits were demilled but it can also be something unique with your kit. This is why I prefer the non-predrilled trunion hole flats myself...

Now, I am documenting my build and you can see some of the outline here... I do have well over a thousand pics now but I need to crop them down and get them organized before I can upload them to my server... See

www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=542
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 12:32:47 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:07:03 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:06:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FireBase:
Yes, that would be the technique for using a receiver with no trunnion holes. First trigger guard, front trunnion, then use top receiver cover to space the rear trunnion.

I'm trying to keep it easy for the newbies here that would go out and buy a pre-drilled receiver and hope it's in spec. My folded up Tapco flats are working out good with the Romy Red "G" kits as is. Their holes are pretty close to being exact.



Even with predrilled trunnion holes, starting with the TG is still the way to go.

I have found that although all the trunnion holes will rarely line up, a couple usually will.
If you mount the TG then locate the trunnion properly, You should have at least one or two trunnion holes that will line up.
Use them as is, then egg the others slightly as necessary to fit.

It's much easier and cleaner to slide the trunnion fore or aft slightly, for proper fit, than to have to mess with the TG and magwell.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:07:09 PM EDT
Bump
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:47:28 PM EDT
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