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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/5/2003 2:56:21 PM EST
Simple scenario here guys/gals.

I need input from a variety of knowledgeable sources. I work for a law firm. Criminal defense law firm to be precise. We are representing a client, 20 y.o. kid charged with burglary. One of the things he's charged with stealing is an SKS assault rifle. Granted, burglars who steal rifles of any kind grate mighty hard on my consciousness, but this is a client, and I think the cop who arrested him is a liar, and I'm going to explain why.

One of the items the cop stated was stolen in the burglary was an SKS assault rifle. It was the cop's house, or one of his buddies places that was burgled, so the cop had some inside information on the job.

The cop stopped the kid and stated he found a "clip" with known initials and marks on it in the vehicle the kid was driving, ergo swore out a burglary warrant for the kid, had him arrested and tossed in jail with a huge bond.

We got the kid out, and are representing him in court, but something about that whole deal stuck in my mind. SKS rifles do accept stripper clips and don't have detachable box magazines. The affidavit specifically stated this was a "clip", "detached from the weapon, under the seat of the pickup and was from a burglary"... which was marked with "...known initials and marks..."

SKS rifles don't come stock with detachable magazines. They have internal magazines which are loaded by means of stripper clips. The cop then swears in the affidavit that the SKS has been modified to accept AK-style magazines, and that the same magazine that will run in his AK will run in the SKS.

Is there anyone who knows if SKS rifles can be modified to accept AK magazines? I don't think they can. I don't like burglars but I don't like cops getting innocent kids tossed in prison either, and it lets the real burglar operate longer anyhow... I'm not saying the kid didn't have something to do with it, and he ain't no angel, but the questions remains... can you alter an AK-style detachable box magazine to fit into an SKS. I don't think so.

I think this cop has an ax to grind with the kid and is trying pretty seriously to get him thrown in prison for something he may not have done. Please correct me if I'm wrong. AKs have detachable box magazines which are **NOT** interchangeable with SKS detachable mags. Even if you *did* have an SKS with a detachable mag, you could *not* interchange them.

Of course, this all may be for naught if the evidence room produces a detachable mag for an SKS, but I don't think it will. I really think this information may well either hang the kid or make a second degree felony go away... Please respond, and please don't IM me, I'm about to sign off for the night, but I'm going to log on tomorrow a.m.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:05:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 3:09:19 PM EST by M4_Aiming_at_U]
First of all, a SKS is NOT a REAL Assault Rifle(Even thought the left wing media types say otherwise).
You go into court calling that and he's going to be giulty from the get go. It is a SPORTING rifle.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:07:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 3:08:12 PM EST by M4_Aiming_at_U]

You can buy detacheble Magazines that look like and funcion like Ak magazines. He may have had a 10 round stripper clip though. Try to find this out and exactly what make and model the SKS is. This will help us help you a lot more.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:09:22 PM EST
Let me star by saying that if the kid stole a gun I hope he goes away for a very long time. Now to answer you question, yes there are SKS rifles that accept standard AK47 magazines. They are not really that uncommon.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:12:12 PM EST

As a Doctor and a gunowner, I'm not sure that I like the idea of helping a lawyer with a firearms case. But you were honest enough to put your case before us and I respect that, so..

Can an SKS be modified to accept Ak-47 magazines

Yes, they can though it is difficult if starting form a 'stock' SKS. There are a few variants of Chinese (norinco) that were imported that were/are capable of using AK mags - consquently, they cannot accept the standard SKS mags.

I think it possible that, A. Its possible that your client actually took the weapon; B. purchased the "clip" (your are correct in your terminolgy that it is actually a magazine) from some other source - e.g. a friend, a gunshow, etc.

I any case, it seems that your client was found in possession of stolen property. The explaination as to how that happened is of course up to you and him. Frankly, if he did it, I and most of those of this board hope he ends up being passed around the cell block like a peace pipe. However, we all stanchly believe in the Consitution and that one is innocent until proven guilty.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:43:42 PM EST
How many folks here label their magazines?

I sure don't.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:22:54 PM EST
As a cop, retired police chief, certified police firearms intructor, and qualified expert witness, as well as the moderator of the SKS forum I can tell you that this is possible. While you are correct that the sks rifle in its original form comes with a fixed box magazine, several versions were imported from china that accept standard AK type magazines. Certain domestic gunsmiths have tried to copy this, however the process is expensive and the workability is spotty. In the end it proves more economical to simply buy a domestically produced AK pattern rifle. These have become fairly sought after collector pieces. In addition to this, there are aftermarket magazines designed to retrofit the standard SKS type rifles that function as detachable magazines. The latter type is not however interchangeable with the AK pattern rifles. Most collectors and purists do not use these and stick with the original configuration. They are however somewhat popular with sport shooters. I could never figure out why as all that I have seen malfunctioned horribly and it was actually faster to charge the fixed magazine with stripper clips than these monstrosities. It is also not uncommon for a cop to refer to a clip and magazine interchangeably. Many are not sporting enthusiasts and tend to not use the correct vernacular although can explain what they mean when asked further questions. I hope this answers your questions.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:24:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By WildWes:
How many folks here label their magazines?

I sure don't.

I do, its a cop thing. It ensures you get your own back during qualification and also identifies bad mags for discard.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:28:40 PM EST
So, is there a rifle to go along with that "clip"? Sounds a little fishy though.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:42:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 5:16:05 PM EST by GaryM]
From what I recall Norinco imported a SKS that was made to use AK type magazines. I think it was the type D. They were only imported for a short period of time. I will see if I can find more data for you and post when I do.

Editted to add;
Yup, check this page for more info
Scroll down and read about the type D and type M rifles.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:08:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By GaryM:
From what I recall Norinco imported a SKS that was made to use AK type magazines. I think it was the type D. They were only imported for a short period of time. I will see if I can find more data for you and post when I do.

Yes, its the Type D.

Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:08:06 PM EST
The rifle in question needs to be located and brought in for evidence in order to solve this particular question. If it is not available, then the next thing to do would be to call the gun's owner up for examination. He will of course be asked about the configuration of his rifle, the manufacturer, where and when he got it, did it take magazines or clips, does he know the difference, and so on and so forth. With any luck, you might catch him in a bald faced lie.

Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:16:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 5:21:49 PM EST by SouthernShark]
I think the real issues are:

1) Why did the cop make the initial stop?

2) What lead him to inspect the magazine?

3) Most mags look identical so what was it about this set of circumstances that gave him probable cause to reach into a vehicle and do a search? Or were the initials in plain view too? (that seems unlikely).

4) If the search was based on reasonable suspicion rather than p/c what was the basis? And why would that cause him to inspect the mag? If he was afraid of a threat in the vehicle then why did he examine the mag? If he is telling the truth then his first reaction would have been to look for a gun.

5) Where did they find the gun? Or did they? There might be a seperate suppression issue there.

6) Assuming that this was an AK mag then there are millions of guns on the market which this could have fit. It seems unlikely that a cop could tell much by looking at any individual mag. Which seems to suggest that the subsequent search was unreasonable.

7) Cops might label mags used for qualification, but I seriously doubt that a cop uses an SKS for such a role......... I would want to examine said magazine, if it exists.

8) Try to cop a plea..... I represented a guy who stole two handguns last year and got him 45 days but with ADJUDICATION WITHELD........ The best part was that he had already served 30 days. As a criminal defense attorney, I hope that you get the guy off.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:44:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:42:38 PM EST
Hey why is it that I remember always hearing or was it always seeing ads for SKS-D models but never hear about them now. I know CA banned these specifically and you had to turn them in.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 11:39:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:

I have been on this forum for a while and I dont understand why some people start calling others trolls, whats the big deal a guy asks a question about the sks its not like he is trying to trick someone into breaking the law or anything like that.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:55:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:16:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:17:36 AM EST
To everyone who responded, thanks a lot for your input. As usual, when I need a tech question answered or have an obscure query, this type of forum is the best way to do it, instead of poring hours and hours into the computer through obscure internet searches.

Anyway, there's not too much information out there on rifles that aren't imported any longer.

I really appreciate the information. The real deal here is that we've got to look at all the physical evidence in the matter. There are other issues in the case which may point to the client's guilt, and I can't give out any more information. The principle issue has been answered, however.

For the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been supportive of any criminal activity. I feel I'm a responsible gun owner, hunter, plinker, and am simply a working kinda guy. I also have an ability to know or figure out where to ask hard to answer questions, some of which may be critical to a case.

Please rest assured the justice system grinds slowly but exceedingly fine. All of your input was greatly appreciated.

Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:23:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By WildWes:
How many folks here label their magazines?

I sure don't.

Every single one of my magzines has my name and an ID#. Magazines with know issues also have "Range' as a prefix for the number so I know is a 'range only' magazine.

The Name is for ID (lots of people come to our AR shoots so I want to be able to ID mine).

The Number is so if my magazine does have a problem I can track it - magazines that tend to have problems - get the 'RANGE' prefix.

This is very useful if you have alot of magazines - especially when they cost $20 a pop.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 7:41:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 10:02:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:
magazines that tend to have problems - get the 'RANGE' prefix.

Mine that give trouble get the trashcan treatment.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 10:05:46 AM EST
A friend has an SKS that he uses a high cap mag in. It is awkward to put in, you have hold open the action while doing it. Since the SKS has a fixed mag, is it illegal to modify it? We once asked a gun dealer before my friend bought his about it & he gave us a smartass remark rather than just saying "That's not legal" (That was about 6 years ago before either of us had an experience w/guns).
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:29:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 1:34:28 PM EST by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By tommygs:
I'm not saying the kid didn't have something to do with it, and he ain't no angel...

Sounds like that pretty much sums things up. Screw 'im.

I think this cop has an ax to grind with the kid and is trying pretty seriously to get him thrown in prison for something he may not have done.

I'd refer you back to your above statement. Seems like this is what we pay cops to do. Not to write jaywalking citations, that's for sure.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:39:16 PM EST
I might with a high priced preban that I was never going to sell and was using at a rnage or shooting match with a lot of other people to prevent theft, but not for a dime a dozen AK mag

Originally Posted By WildWes:
How many folks here label their magazines?

I sure don't.

Link Posted: 6/6/2003 7:02:24 PM EST
I had an SKS D and another standard SKS that I had a gunsmith modify to take AK mags. They were both unwieldy. Eventually I grew to dislike them, which is why I don't own either any more.
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