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Posted: 1/21/2007 7:03:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/1/2007 4:42:04 PM EST by getit]
there is a gentleman(DT) that started this type conv...works Very well....i have a 7.62X25 ak conv already but wanted to use my supprsr on something so decided to build one! i am using a flawwed nds2 DCI rec($40 Thanks halan!) and a magwell from a suomi kit.. decided on barrel(uzi) but it is coming along
Here are some pics so far...alittle taste of overall deal
rec cut for magwell to fit and clearance for the drum!






Some pics of the modded magwell





all pieced together




Thx Randy(sledgehammer arms works) for all the help my friend!!!
Link Posted: 1/21/2007 7:43:15 AM EST
umm that's cool! got more info? I wonder if I could make one that shoot .40 cal?
Link Posted: 1/21/2007 7:43:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2007 10:40:28 AM EST by Ndenway]
I started one last year, it'd probably be finished by now if I'd ever get a chance to work on it,

I used an uzi barrel I picked up for $10, and an barrel less AMD kit for the hardware, theres pics posted of all of it somewhere on the forum,

all I've got to do now is install the barrel and fit the bolt/carrier when I get the chance, hopefully that'll be soon.


EDIT:

I shortend my receiver 3/4" so that I didn't have to install the barrel so far into the trunnion.
Link Posted: 1/21/2007 9:40:21 AM EST
HMMMMM ?????!!!!!!
Wheels are starting to turn . . . albiet , slowly. Very interesting. Please share information, such as boltcarrier mods, etc.
Thanks
Link Posted: 1/21/2007 12:09:36 PM EST
Getit
Great job!! You did some excellent and serious work to salvage that Suomi mag well. It looks like it will fit and work just fine. Hope you didn't burn or grind your fingers as bad as I did on my first Suomi mag well. Keep us posted on how your project turns out.
Rodger
Link Posted: 1/21/2007 1:50:57 PM EST
gajeep94yj......that is my next project! maybe mp5 .40 parts?

guys for some great info check out Rodgers site!

and Doubletaps write up HERE!

i am still good rodger...no wounds or burns YET LOL...i am going to look into that .40 deal then i would something else to shoot besides my sig229

Link Posted: 1/22/2007 4:11:36 AM EST
To be honest I would probably set it up for a 357 sig since that is my pistol round of choice and that is what I reload! But if someone has it for a 40 and you have the barrel info for a 9mm I am set!

Thanks for those links I am going to have to start researching now!
Link Posted: 1/23/2007 6:04:45 AM EST
Wow. I would love to have one in 7.62x25. Could you post photos of it and any info on the build? I think i need one in my life.
Link Posted: 1/23/2007 7:48:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgt5th:
Wow. I would love to have one in 7.62x25. Could you post photos of it and any info on the build? I think i need one in my life.



heres a link to a previous post:

jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=51&t=91048
Link Posted: 1/23/2007 6:10:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/23/2007 6:17:18 PM EST by getit]
Thx Ndenway for posting that......got the barrel out to Randy(sledgehammer) getting turned down..decided to thread the end of the uzi barrel 14mm and i will just get an adapter made for my suppressor to fit it...also picked up my 6.8 barrel! should be coming along soon
i recommend getting ahold of rodger at www.lichtenbergresearch.com for a 7.62x25 magwell adapter for that build

oh and BTW for a .40 ak one could use THIS for the barrel and THIS to make it 16"
and These mags and make a new magwell(if ya can handle it LOL)

kinda costly but one of a kind!
Link Posted: 1/23/2007 10:23:21 PM EST
his magwell adapter is worth the $40, with it installed you can eliminate the center support, and the time it takes to grind down a sunami well,

I haven't finished fitting mine, I need to take approx. .050 off the sides to square it in the receiver, then I need to get my other projects organized so I can hit the shop, install the barrel, fit the feed ramp and mod the bolt and carrier.
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 7:10:37 PM EST
Ive got some questions...


What 9mm barrel are you all using on this? Will it need to be turned down to fit in the trunnion?

What kind of gas system? I see guys welding their bolts to the carrier, is it just a straight blowback? If so, how does that work?

I need someone to explain the operation of it, I dont get it.


Pics would help also. Im interested in doing one of these, as I can shoot pistol cal. rifles at the local indoor range, but not full rifle cal. rifles.

It's either this or get an Uzi, and I see that AK-builder has his own magwell, and flat too.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:21:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1BMF:
Ive got some questions...


What 9mm barrel are you all using on this? Will it need to be turned down to fit in the trunnion?

I'm using a uzi barrel, but if you can find a sunomi kit cheap enough you can go that route also, you'll have to bush the barrel to fit into the AK trunnion, look on rogers site and it'll give you a better idea on the entire process

What kind of gas system? I see guys welding their bolts to the carrier, is it just a straight blowback? If so, how does that work?

most are strait blow back, but I guess you could do a gas operated

I need someone to explain the operation of it, I dont get it.

look on rogers site, its posted on one of the links in this post
Link Posted: 2/1/2007 3:18:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/1/2007 3:20:00 PM EST by getit]
1BMF did u see rodgers site?? did it help w/ info?? lmk

<added pic to first post>> alittle taste of what will take shape shortly!

I am going to shorten the rec in the front and back...hopefully 2 inches
Link Posted: 2/9/2007 11:30:32 PM EST
a few more pics






Link Posted: 2/21/2007 5:55:48 AM EST
I really need to build one of these!

I am curious about the bolt... I have an extra Tantial kit and that bolt wouuld be the the right size but I see most people are using 7.62x39 kits... Is there a reason for that?

Also, as mentioned above, these are gas opperated (as oppoed to blow-back) right?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:46:38 AM EST
Quarterbore
Your approach of using a Tantal or AK74 kit is sound. The Tantal bolt and carrier (ak74) is an ideal and a minimal effort way to go. The reason I built all mine on AK47 kits was because they were cheaper. The problem is with a AK47 kit you need to reduce the size of the bolt face to hold the 9mm case. If you use a AK74 bolt and a AK47 carrier you need to sleeve the smaller AK74 bolt stem to the larger AK47 carrier. The easiest option is use a AK74 bolt and carrier but that is expensive to buy separately. Complete AK74 bolts can be difficult to find as well. I will use AK74 parts when I can find them at a reasonable price. I started making and selling bolt face pocket bushings to adapt the AK47 bolt to hold the smaller 9mm or 7.62x25 case so builders would have that option. I also make and sell the sleeve to adapt the AK74 bolt to the AK47 carrier. The down side to using these adaptors is that it takes some welding skills to properly install the bushing and sleeve.
Rodger
http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/index.html
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:55:39 AM EST
Quarterbore
These are blow back not gas operated. I am currently working on a gas operated 9 and have got it to fire, cock and eject with only one round in the chamber and no drum installed. When the loaded drum is installed there is too much friction on the underside of the carrier and bolt. This project may not work out but I am not giving up yet. There is just not much energy to work with.
Rodger
http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/index.html
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 10:28:22 AM EST
Thanks!

I wasn't thinking when I made the gas comment as obviously if you are using an UZI barrel there must not be a gas port & system!

I need to do some soul searching as I have a couple Tantial kits but you are correct that they rare worth quite a bit more then the Romy G or AMD-65 kits that I stuck away when the buying was good!

I had better get my bench cleared off and finish a couple more of the builds I had planned so I can do one of these soon...
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 4:10:54 PM EST
heres a pic of my receiver (front shortened 3/4"):


and a pic of my barrel assembly:


I haven't got any pics of these yet, but I'm using a 47 carrier with a 74 bolt I recently got, I was mod'ing a 47 bolt which is a pita, but I found the 74 bolt cheap and it only needs a bushing to work with the 47 carrier and needs no mods to work except shortening the tail and firing pin a bit,

its been too cold to work in my shop for the last couple months so I haven't even installed the barrel assembly yet, once I get that done,

I'll finish fitting the magwell adapter, feed ramp and concentrate on fitting and welding the carrier/bolt assembly so I can set head space and test fir.,



Link Posted: 2/21/2007 4:55:02 PM EST
Ndenway
That looks good. You may have to weld up a little on the feed ramp and grind it smooth to tip the bullet nose up to get into the chamber.
Rodger
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:58:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By RodgerL:
Ndenway
That looks good. You may have to weld up a little on the feed ramp and grind it smooth to tip the bullet nose up to get into the chamber.
Rodger


thanks man, I'd of never started one of these without your magwell,

its warming up a bit here now, so hopefully I'll find the time to get out and finish it, I haven't did a thing since about the first of dec. on it,

I plan on shortening the amd folder to approx "entry length", it'll fold just behind the drum and if I measured right should still clear the safety selector, but hell I'm getting ahead of myself, I need to get the tough stuff done first.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:29:39 PM EST
Ndenway
I really like the shortened receiver configuration for the 2XTM build. It places the drum closer to the chamber but still allows for an easy mag catch mod and head spacing with the original bolt stop. (Carrier to trunnion). With the three I have built with the shortened receiver I have had to build up the feed ramp on my mag well just a little bit so the ogive of the bullet hits the feed ramp and tips the bullet up into the chamber.
Rodger
http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/index.html
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 8:09:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 8:10:46 PM EST by getit]
Ndenway....looking good! out of curiousity why do u need to shorten the end of the bolt and firing pin?
if u make the bolt able to run back and fourth in the carrier it will act as normal when carrier is all the way to the back of the rec and not stay protruding out
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 9:22:15 AM EST
Getit
All of my 2XTM builds have shortened bolts and firing pin. This is not relate to the shortened receiver but the relationship between the feed lips of the mag and the chamber. This distance short be as short as possible. The barrel is located back closer to the mag so the short pistol rounds will feed into the chamber without any assistance. This means the bolt sits back about 3/8" farther back than in a typical AK. The Hammer should be dead vertical when hitting the firing pin and bolt. To achieve this the end of the bolt stem and firing pin are trimmed. There are other approaches that can be used to get the correct geometry between the hammer and firing pin but this appears to be the simplest. Rodger
http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/index.html
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:58:25 AM EST
Getit, like Rodger posted above, when it bolts/barrels head spaced on the shortened receiver the tail end of the bolt will stick too far out the back of the carrier and the hammer will not be able to hit it squarely,

look in the 3rd pic you posted on 2.10 at 330am, the bolt's tail is sticking about approx. 3/8" to 7/16" out past the tail of the carrier, thats what I'm talking about having to trim down to length when it gets head spaced, it should be pretty close to the same length as the tail of the carrier.

on Rodgers builds, he's built up and welded a piece to widen the rear of the carrier so it doesn't beat the hell out of the rear tang or buffer if ones installed.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 2:45:34 PM EST
wow...is anybody building these into compolete rifles, or willing to do so If I sent them the parts and a 100% receiver?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 4:33:48 PM EST
did you guys start these build with a 47 or a 74 kit?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 7:20:04 PM EST
Panhead

74s are expensive but require the least amount of work. A 47 requires bolt face mods to hold the smaller 9mm case. Also the bolt lug that strips the round from the mag needs to be narrowed slightly to pass between the drum lips if not using a stick mag.
Rodger
http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/index.html

Link Posted: 2/22/2007 7:22:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By panheadchopper:
did you guys start these build with a 47 or a 74 kit?

I started with a flat, barrelless AMD 65 kit, uzi barrel and the magwell Rodger makes, I've recently aquired a 74 bolt for cheap, its the best way to go as it need very little mods, the 47 bolt takes some mod's to make work with the 9mil case head


wow...is anybody building these into compolete rifles, or willing to do so If I sent them the parts and a 100% receiver?

afaik, these are homebuilds only right now, I don't know of any builder thats doing them, if you can build a regular AK, then you can build one of these, but these take a hell of a lot more work, your not gonna be able to build one of these in a couple of hours,

plus what ever barrel you use will have to be turned, so you'll have to find someone willing to do the machining on it,

that was my greatest hold up next to finding time to tinker with this build, no machine shop in my area was willing to turn the barrel do to liability reasons, finally found a place after several months of looking for a very reasonable fee.

Link Posted: 2/24/2007 12:01:22 AM EST
Ndenway....i know what u mean now....just got back to messing w/ this and seen that
what i am saying is u dont need to add anything at the back of the carrier if u let the bolt slide forward in the carrier so it doesnt hit the rear trunion

but i do see why the tail is shortened! i looked at it w/ the bolt in chambered position and thought DAM that hammer aint gonna fly
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