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Posted: 8/23/2004 6:38:08 AM EST
I am in the market for my first 7.62 x 39 AK. I know, what took me so long.

Was at a fun show this weekend and saw a lot of NIB WASR 10s for just under $300. I also saw several NIB milled receiver Arsenal AKs for about $560. The Arsenal definitely had much better fit, finish and furniture.

So, great gurus of the AK, is the Arsenal really worth almost twice the money? I am looking for a decent shooter for plinking (love the price of the ammo), but have a thing about buying quality the first time. Or should I just get the WASR and spend the extra $250+ on LOTS of ammo? If I get a WASR, what should I look out for (slanted sights, etc)?

We have another show nearby in three weeks, and many of the same dealers will be there. Thanks in advance for your counsel.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 6:45:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 6:46:06 AM EST by Ripcode]
Owning both, I would say yes.

But if you want to maximize the bang for your buck, a stamped receiver AK will allow you to buy more for less.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 7:41:02 AM EST
IMO, the milled Bulgarians are some of the best quality AK variants out there, so I would say yes - definitely worth it.
But if you're looking for a gun you can throw around and abuse, I would get the WASR.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 7:46:26 AM EST
yes
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 7:55:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:11:42 AM EST
yes
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:32:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:37:33 AM EST
I've shot an Arsenal and own a WASR10 and I would say just save your money, especially if this is your first AK. The WASR is really a fine weapon. Who cares if the gun isn't absolutely perfect from Century, you can fix problems with a couple seconds on the dremel (if you want perfection the WASR in stock form isn't for you). And most importantly, it doesn't matter how much you say you won't, you'll end up owning both one day anyway. Might as well get your feet wet with a $300 Romanian and work up to an Arsenal.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:55:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:15:54 AM EST
I have one and it's VERY nice! I can't speak for any other AK, the Arsenal is the only one I own. However, I have shot others and the Arsenal seems the best.

Although, some folks do not like Milled receives, not sure why but everyone has their opinion.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:25:43 AM EST
I wish one could purchase just the milled receiver. I never cared for the fugly synthetic stock, or the 90 degree gas block on the SAM series- just doesn't seem right on a 7.62 from an aesthetic/purist standpoint.

They are well made, though.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:36:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
I wish one could purchase just the milled receiver. I never cared for the fugly synthetic stock, or the 90 degree gas block on the SAM series- just doesn't seem right on a 7.62 from an aesthetic/purist standpoint.

They are well made, though.



Uh oh, SSR99 will have to set you straight.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 1:09:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:

Originally Posted By Mach1:
I wish one could purchase just the milled receiver. I never cared for the fugly synthetic stock, or the 90 degree gas block on the SAM series- just doesn't seem right on a 7.62 from an aesthetic/purist standpoint.

They are well made, though.



Uh oh, SSR99 will have to set you straight.




Why? It's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 1:14:58 PM EST
I can't believe what you guys are telling him.

<­BR>

Get both.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 2:06:52 PM EST
Thanks for the info guys. I can't believe it took almost four hours until someone implored me to GET BOTH. You guys are slipping.

I think I'll get the Arsenal. Sounds like those who have them find them worth the extra cost. I prefer to buy quality over quantity, as long as the additional cost is for real value.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 2:15:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:

Originally Posted By Mach1:
I wish one could purchase just the milled receiver. I never cared for the fugly synthetic stock, or the 90 degree gas block on the SAM series- just doesn't seem right on a 7.62 from an aesthetic/purist standpoint.

They are well made, though.



Uh oh, SSR99 will have to set you straight.




Why? It's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.



I have had the debate with him before. That's all. I agree with you.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 2:44:46 PM EST
Arsenal is the only way to go if quality, fit, and finish are even remotely important to you. I looked at a WASR about a week ago and it wasn't even close to my Arsenal Inc. Having said that I will probably buy a Romainian at some point only because I already own the quality firearm and $300 is hard to beat. Here is a good article about the Arsenal.

Arsenal Review
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:13:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
Thanks for the info guys. I can't believe it took almost four hours until someone implored me to GET BOTH. You guys are slipping.

I think I'll get the Arsenal. Sounds like those who have them find them worth the extra cost. I prefer to buy quality over quantity, as long as the additional cost is for real value.

Thanks!




It's been an hour since you decided you wanted the Arsenal, did you order one yet? J/K
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 5:08:40 PM EST
I was sighting in my PKAS-V scope on my SLR95 yesterday, and I can tell you that the Arsenal milled is a damn good rifle. Why? Same hole. as I was sighting in (with 2 shot groups) I kept shooting in the same hole working my way towords the bullseye. Whatever I place the Red dot on (literally) is what I hit every time. Awesome rifle.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:17:20 PM EST
I have a arsenal rpk 7 and it is beautifull. I am glad I went with it. It shoots great well worth the money.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:49:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 3:56:19 AM EST by SSR-99]
Ummm, did I hear my name being mentioned?

Hey, if someone does not like the look of the 90 degree gas block and of a black synthetic stock set......... that's fine with me. It is the look of the standard SAM series, and that of some of the more modern variations of Bulgarian AR-M1 select fire assault rifles. Not liking the look does not say he is bashing the gun at all, just that it's not his style

The Arsenal Inc firm has offered the more traditional AK-47 look that has the heavier barrel, 45 degree gas block, and wood stock set (via the SA M-7 Classic), but of course those have been discontinued, and finding one can be tough.
But............. they do show up from time to time

As for Arsenal Inc not offering their milled receiver as a stand alone item, that is very true. I know that many folks have wished they would start doing so.

At one time I wondered why a company would choose to not sell their receiver as a stand alone item. After putting myself in their shoes, I was able to come up with some good reasons why they probably don't, so I very much respect their decision.

Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:18:10 AM EST
Get the Arsenal AK. I have the SLR101S and it's the nicest AK I have. I have Rommy's also.You need to get ba Rommy later on. But like most you might have to do alittle work on it . No biggie... Congrads... WarDawg
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:44:19 AM EST
It's been said many times here, and I think PAEBR332 decided, but my .02 is that the Aresenal Incs. are well worth the money.

Sly
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 8:07:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By SSR-99:

At one time I wondered why a company would choose to not sell their receiver as a stand alone item. After putting myself in their shoes, I was able to come up with some good reasons why they probably don't, so I very much respect their decision.




Ok, I'll bite...Why?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 9:01:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:

Originally Posted By SSR-99:

At one time I wondered why a company would choose to not sell their receiver as a stand alone item. After putting myself in their shoes, I was able to come up with some good reasons why they probably don't, so I very much respect their decision.




Ok, I'll bite...Why?




Mach1,

I had tried to imagine what the upside and downsides would be, and please remember that these are only my guesses on what may have kept them from the stand alone receiver market, not based on anything they have personally stated.

I first thought of the positives of selling them as stand alone items, and $ signs was my immediate guess

So then I wondered why the heck not sell them, and I thought it could be as simple as them wanting to concentrate and be looked at as a complete rifle manufacturer, and not be tied in as being a supplier of stand alone receivers.
I also wondered if they did not want to have to deal with folks that may not be as AK savy as they thought they were, that may try to assemble guns on the receivers they offer. Some of these folks may damage or make mistakes that they then try to blame the receiver (and therefore the manufacture for). Or maybe, for similar reasons, they were worried that some AK's built on their receivers would be such bad representations, that they may cause bad reputations to sprout up that the receiver manufacturer had no part in doing. Even if they sold the receivers under another name to eliminate the receivers from the complete guns, some would manage to screw up their AK builds, and maybe blame the receiver for it. Then, the rumors would start that not only does this John Doe receiver suck, but that so does Arsenal Inc, since they are the manufacturers of the Jon Doe receiver. There was more, but these are some of the reasons I could see them wanting to stay out of the stand alone receiver business. Again, these were just guesses, and maybe none of my guesses even come close

See ya
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 10:58:35 AM EST
Sounds plausible, thanks.

I might shoot them an e-mail just for the hell of it, asking them why they don't sell receivers separately. I still think they are missing out on a viable market.

I'm a curious fellow.



Link Posted: 8/24/2004 11:51:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
Sounds plausible, thanks.

I might shoot them an e-mail just for the hell of it, asking them why they don't sell receivers separately. I still think they are missing out on a viable market.

I'm a curious fellow.



My .02 FWIW concerning Arsenal Inc receivers only...

Imagine a newbie to ARs. He finds a "BUSHMASTER" rifle for sale. He buys it, takes it home.... Later he finds the trigger pull to be grossly heavy and gritty. (Yes, even more so than usual) Upon firing he discovers the rifle doubles every once in awhile... He reads the Bushmaster manual that states all Bushmasters except the varmint series and SS rifles feature chrome lined chamber and bore. The upper gets wet and he finds rust in the bore and barrel.... Later the gun jams intermittently, the gas key allen heads loosen, the titanium firing pin breaks as well as the hard chromed extractor... This newbie will flat out rail against Bushmaster products.

For those who aren't newbies to Bushmaster AR15s... You would be able to say, "Wait a minute- Bushmaster FCGs meet or exceed milspec trigger pull, they are fitted by 'folks who know' and shouldn't have an out of spec disconnector as they are test fired at the factory.... Further the vast majority of BMs barrel offerings are chrome lined, the gun shouldn't jam, the gas key screws should be staked in place, BM would never use Ti firing pins as they're a piece of shit solution in search of a problem and since hard chromed extractors are not mil-spec they certainly wouldn't be factory installed...."

So this newbie has a Frankenstein AR with a quality receiver, put together by a monkey in his basement and sold to a newbie under the guise that it's a "Bushmaster" rifle. (After all the receiver has BM's name and logo on it) Since the newbie didn't know what he was looking at in the first place, he will assume Bushmaster turns out a poor product even though in reality, Bushmaster only made the lower which received crappy 3rd rate parts and a crappy 3rd rate upper...

I can certainly see why Arsenal Inc. would prefer to keep their reputation untarnished. IMHO, the AR is much simpler to cobble together than an AK... And there are plenty of ARs out there that were cobbled together and are in need of many hours of troubleshooting to get them running properly.... Imagine the disaster of a newbie buying an "Arsenal Inc" AK which has a canted front site base or gas block, crappy trigger, refinished &/or shot out parts kit barrel etc. etc...

Sly
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