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Posted: 12/15/2009 4:02:28 PM EDT


To start, this will be long so bare with me.

On November 12th, I went to one of  a well, not so local, shop (about 25mi one way), to order the SGL-21. This shop had been pretty good with me in the past so we worked out a deal that would cost me nearly $30 more but instead of them getting just the $15 transfer fee, they would order it and make $50. Not a big deal to me cause I figured with it being my 4th large purchase with them this year that it would be a good start to a great relationship. On top of that there is a shop that is only about 5mi away that also has just a $15 transfer fee but Ive never really delt with them. Even better, the local shop is in KY and because I get delayed EVERY TIME, literally every time, I got my ccw which will allow me to fill out the 4473 and walk out with the weapon with no NICS call. This shop is in IN which does not allow that so that means once the rifle arrived, Id have to go there to fill out the 4473 and then get delayed and then go back once I get the proceed. Again, all of this didnt bother me because I am very loyal to people who treat me good.

I placed the order with the manager (the only one Ive ever dealt with) who knew of the deal and how long it lasted, I also told him as a reminder.

Anyhow, I put a $110 down payment.

A few days later I call do see if it has arrived and they say it hasnt.

I call back again a few days later, nothing, this time I got some sort of excuse how KVAR lost their information and they had to re-order. By now the price had gone up to $550 but I was told that they were promised the original price by KVAR.

Call back again a couple days later, still not in.

Flash forward to a week or so later and a couple calls later to today. I am now told that the owner of the store has not ordered my rifle because its too much work to make one phone call and order my rifle for $50 and that I will need to come in and pick up my down payment.  

I then explained to him (the manager) all what Ive sacrificed besides the few extra dollars, as outlined in the first part of my post,  to do business with them. I do believe the manager genuinely feels bad and wants to rectify the situation. He says he will try to get the owner to order and hopefully for KVARs original sale price. If not, I guess I will have to get my money back.

Now, if it turns out to happen, I am going to be PISSED as now I really doubt I will be able to get the rifle at the original sale price and I know I wont be able to shell out the extra cash for their current price anytime soon.

If I cant, is there anything I can do? What does the hivemind think?
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 4:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2009 4:09:47 PM EDT by sporter]
Go somewhere else.  Order it yourself and have a dealer fax in their FFL.

The sale is over.
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 4:13:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2009 4:13:59 PM EDT by JD762]
Originally Posted By sporter:
Go somewhere else.  Order it yourself and have a dealer fax in their FFL.



I would, but now I believe the price is $100 more and with Christmas coming up, there is no way I can swing it.

But I will tell you what, like I am loyal to people who treat me good and will go out of my way to promote them and do as much business with them I can, if you treat me wrong, I guarantee you that you will not lose just my business but others as well.

Link Posted: 12/15/2009 4:13:53 PM EDT
Dude get your money and run!

Link Posted: 12/15/2009 4:33:05 PM EDT
That dealer is a rat a real low down rat. I know how it feels to think you can trust someone in a firearm store,later to find out they are worthless robbing rats.
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 4:46:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rifleshooter474:
That dealer is a rat a real low down rat. I know how it feels to think you can trust someone in a firearm store,later to find out they are worthless robbing rats.


I feel really cheated. But seriously, how good is your business doing when its not worth your time to make a 5 minute phone call?
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 5:33:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JD762:
Originally Posted By rifleshooter474:
That dealer is a rat a real low down rat. I know how it feels to think you can trust someone in a firearm store,later to find out they are worthless robbing rats.


I feel really cheated. But seriously, how good is your business doing when its not worth your time to make a 5 minute phone call?


A wise man once said, "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery.  What are you going to do today?"

Get your money back, find another FFL, and order the Lancaster AK-74 from AIM.  The SGL-21 is not $150 better (33% more!), even if they "used to be $800."  If money is an issue, 5.45 is the way to go anyway.
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 5:47:31 PM EDT
I already have a very nice Bulgy AKS-74 that has been professionally cloned into a Russian Izzy clone, complete with soviet proofs and I wanted the SGL-21 to be a nice AK-103 to match. PLus I sold my only other AKM-47 clone (rommy g) to fund this rifle.
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 8:12:37 PM EDT
Obviously, this shop does not care for your business.

Get your deposit back, and go somewhere else.

It's really that simple.
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 8:20:25 PM EDT
BIG + 1 on taking your business elsewhere!
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 10:17:12 PM EDT
Better yet, out this place so all of us in a position to do so can boycott the store.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 2:23:48 AM EDT
Oh trust me, if they havnt ordered it by Saturday, I will get my money back and I will NEVER set foot in that place again and will be sure to tell any one interested to not shop there.

However, my big dilemma is getting the SGL-21. Does any one know the rep at KVAR that took the orders? I'd be interested in calling him to see if the shop actually ordered like they said in the beginning and that KVAR really indeed lose their information.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:55:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JD762:
Oh trust me, if they havnt ordered it by Saturday, I will get my money back and I will NEVER set foot in that place again and will be sure to tell any one interested to not shop there.

However, my big dilemma is getting the SGL-21. Does any one know the rep at KVAR that took the orders? I'd be interested in calling him to see if the shop actually ordered like they said in the beginning and that KVAR really indeed lose their information.


Hell why not just call them and get some real answers, don't see how it could hurt things anymore. Man if was I you bet I would be calling them and NOW!!!!.
K-Var Corporation
3300 S. Decatur Blvd., #10601
LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89102
Tel.: 1 702 364 8880
Fax: 1 702 307 2303
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 10:17:54 AM EDT
Make sure you tall that shop that you will not buy from them again.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 10:25:59 AM EDT
Sounds like the manager was a stand-up guy but the owner is an asshole.  $50 plus $15 for the transfer fee wasn't worth the owner's time.  I'd tell him what I thought and then advise him that he'd lost your business forever.  Then proceed to tell him you're going to post in the local forum and advise people not to do business there as well.  

In the meantime, get friendly with the guy who's 5 miles from your house and in your home state.  Might turn out to be a lot happier with him anyway.  The fact of the matter is, yes, an FFL isn't located on every corner.  But there are enough of them around to where you don't have to do business with someone you don't want to, regardless of what your personal reasons are.  Welcome to Free Enterprise 101.  I'd be done with them after that one visit, regardless of the manager.  Unfortunately for the manager, his boss is a shmuck and his boss (the owner) is the one that ultimately calls the shots.  Go elsewhere.  He's not the only gig in town and he knows it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 12:19:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tommo0:
BIG + 1 on taking your business elsewhere!



+1

An unreliable dealer is not worth your time or money.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 1:25:28 PM EDT
Why wouldn't you just order the rifle yourself, and pay a transfer fee?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 1:51:47 PM EDT
Yeah thats how i did it, just order it yourself and pay the transfer fee!
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 1:54:43 PM EDT
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:11:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Why wouldn't you just order the rifle yourself, and pay a transfer fee?


Yup, if you want something done right...do it yourself.



Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:22:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.




$550 OTD is not too much for a real Russian AKM clone.

As far as ordering it my self with a credit card, I have a wife and have to stash away cash...nuff said!

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:00:43 PM EDT
What I have found in my little firearm funny City,is the dealers buy the AKs then they get as much as the buying market will allow.
If I want something I just pay their price. I don't expect getting any real deals and I am not surprised when I don't. I think I payed about $60 to much for my AMD-65 and $80 to much for the SGL-20. Both are great shooting rifles with no problems. IMHO it was a good deal.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:04:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JD762:
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.




$550 OTD is not too much for a real Russian AKM clone.

As far as ordering it my self with a credit card, I have a wife and have to stash away cash...nuff said!



Without getting into your home life, there are certainly "creative" ways to get around those obstacles.

Prepaid cards, Money orders, MommaNoSee accounts, etc.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:06:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Originally Posted By JD762:
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.




$550 OTD is not too much for a real Russian AKM clone.

As far as ordering it my self with a credit card, I have a wife and have to stash away cash...nuff said!



Without getting into your home life, there are certainly "creative" ways to get around those obstacles.

Prepaid cards, Money orders, MommaNoSee accounts, etc.


Duly noted, Ive only served a little over a year so far so Im still learning!
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:19:53 PM EDT
I'd call K-Var, tell 'em the story and see if you can get the reduced price.

Every time I've dealt with their staff they've been very professional, helpful, etc.

All of their rifle prices have not gone back to normal and even though they said they were going back up on the 07 DEC they are now saying 21 DEC.

At the PHX, AZ gun show a couple of weekends ago they did make a point of putting a big sign on the 21s saying this was the last day for that price, though.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:20:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JD762:
Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Originally Posted By JD762:
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.




$550 OTD is not too much for a real Russian AKM clone.

As far as ordering it my self with a credit card, I have a wife and have to stash away cash...nuff said!



Without getting into your home life, there are certainly "creative" ways to get around those obstacles.

Prepaid cards, Money orders, MommaNoSee accounts, etc.


Duly noted, Ive only served a little over a year so far so Im still learning!


it took me 5 years to even think about bringing guns into "our" home, now im snatchin em up as fast as my wallet will let me. going to purchase an AK this weekend i think
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:40:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 4:41:57 PM EDT by Bladeswitcher]
Originally Posted By JD762:
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.




$550 OTD is not too much for a real Russian AKM clone.




You missed the point entirely. It's not about the price of the gun. It's about the OP's your whining.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:31:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 2:40:32 PM EDT by JD762]
Well, come to find out he wont order it after all. So I guess I wont be able to my SGL-21 after all. I am pretty upset and will never step foot in there again after tomorrow to pick up my deposit.

The shop is 111 Gun Shop off Kopp LN in Clarksville, IN. DO NOT TRUST THEM!
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:57:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 3:02:30 PM EDT by Marksman14]
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Originally Posted By JD762:
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.




$550 OTD is not too much for a real Russian AKM clone.




You missed the point entirely. It's not about the price of the gun. It's about the OP's your whining.


The OP started a post to vent a little bit.

If you have a problem with that, you're more than welcomed to GTFO and stop shitting in his thread.  You do realize that the only contribution you have made is....well, whining about the OP "whining"?  

I'd be pissed too.

To the OP, glad you informed us of the situation.  Your HTF might want to know about this too.  Douche bags like this do not deserve our hard earned money.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:22:04 PM EDT
This is exactly why I just buy things online myself and have a local shop do the transfer for $20. Most of the local shops around me are complete idiots whereas most of the online shops

have been extremely helpful/nice (BCM, Spikes, Noveske, KVAR, Rainier, Aim, GunGallery(jax), etc.). I don't see why so many people are so stuck an being "loyal" to their local shops when

the vast majority are unhelpful assholes with an attitude like they don't need you.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:44:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jeep297:
This is exactly why I just buy things online myself and have a local shop do the transfer for $20. Most of the local shops around me are complete idiots whereas most of the online shops

have been extremely helpful/nice (BCM, Spikes, Noveske, KVAR, Rainier, Aim, GunGallery(jax), etc.). I don't see why so many people are so stuck an being "loyal" to their local shops when

the vast majority are unhelpful assholes with an attitude like they don't need you.


I agree 1000%

It seems almost backwards. Local shops should be extra friendly because they have more overhead to pay for than an online shop, and have higher prices. Instead they are self righteous dicks who are uninformed and pompous in their interactions with customers. Online shops have good prices, and also seem to give a shit about customer satisfaction.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 3:53:15 PM EDT
I'd tell them to go eff themselves and check out the other local place.

Too many gunshops have a crappy attitude, so much so that I generally don't buy anything local anymore. I've gotten waaaaaaaaay better service from online dealers and have been lucky enough to find a local FFL who does the transfer for cheap. I honestly don't know how many of these shops stay in business. They are often completely ignorant of what they sell and completely out of touch with taking care of customers. Many of them seem to think everyone is a sucker and knows less than they do about firearms.




Z
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 5:38:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 5:38:53 PM EDT by rifleshooter474]
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
I'd tell them to go eff themselves and check out the other local place.

Too many gunshops have a crappy attitude, so much so that I generally don't buy anything local anymore. I've gotten waaaaaaaaay better service from online dealers and have been lucky enough to find a local FFL who does the transfer for cheap. I honestly don't know how many of these shops stay in business. They are often completely ignorant of what they sell and completely out of touch with taking care of customers. Many of them seem to think everyone is a sucker and knows less than they do about firearms.
Z


Around my sweet City the oldest shops one owned by a really rich family, they built a brand new Big sporting good store for the sons to have. They stock a lot of firearms but don't deal, you buy at their price or you don't buy.

The other married one of the daughters of of a store that had been open 60 years. Small really dirty and really jammed with stuff. Most Ammo. of any store in state. He does not give a hoot if you like his prices or not, and could care less what you think.

New store just opened guy seems fairly nice he sells AKs, has IMHO fair prices so I have been buying from him. So far so good, time will tell if he stays a nice guy.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 8:02:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Life sucks and then you pay too much for a Russian AK clone. Get over it.


Good thing I only paid 500 for my Izhmash rilfe built from brand new parts at the same factory that builds actual authentic AK military rifles for soldiers that actually use them in actual fighting.  I'm hating myself for buying one right now.  
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 9:08:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2009 5:00:54 AM EDT by Dragunovluv]
Perhaps Im reading this wrong but when a Dealer uses their own time to order a Firearm, uses their computer or phone, uses their Checking Account or Credit Card to order that Firearm its NO LONGER a "Transfer". The buyer would also be subject to Sales Tax in the State he buys the gun from too, but Im sure there would be some "objections" to that too.

Now, If the customer calls K-Var, orders it, and uses his credit card, has the Firearm sent to a FFL then thats a "transfer"

If there is any blame for this inappropriately labeled "Transfer" it lies with the guy who made the post. He should just have found a way to pay K-Var and ordered it himself. So now hes wanting to trash a business for his inability to pay for something because "Someone in his life might find out"

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 10:41:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 11:05:47 PM EDT by 56type]
Originally Posted By JD762:
Well, come to find out he wont order it after all. So I guess I wont be able to my SGL-21 after all. I am pretty upset and will never step foot in there again after tomorrow to pick up my deposit.

The shop is 111 Gun Shop off Kopp LN in Clarksville, IN. DO NOT TRUST THEM!


For anyone interested the owner was locked up for breaking into a house not that long ago. Check the Indiana Hometown forum for some other shit that 111 has pulled. He screwed my buddy on an FAL consignment deal then tried to blame it on another guy !! OP I hope you actually get your deposit back.

Link to article on theft conviction....

http://www.news-tribune.net/floydcounty/local_story_306220049.html
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 12:07:13 AM EDT
I wonder if the problem was,,,,

"is it there yet, is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet" "is it there yet, is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet,is it there yet".



Link Posted: 12/19/2009 5:48:35 AM EDT
I have brought some dealers a SGN with good deals advertised, asked them how much they would charge me to order it for me. Hell I would have paid 50-75 bucks in some cases. They had no interest what-so-ever, many of them said "I only do business with my supplier" or they would have a similar gun, but to a knowledable person it is not actually the same gun. They would try to sell me the gun I didnt want.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 6:02:25 AM EDT
get you money back and never do business with them again...
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 6:45:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dragunovluv:
Perhaps Im reading this wrong but when a Dealer uses their own time to order a Firearm, uses their computer or phone, uses their Checking Account or Credit Card to order that Firearm its NO LONGER a "Transfer". The buyer would also be subject to Sales Tax in the State he buys the gun from too, but Im sure there would be some "objections" to that too.


This is what I was thinking too, I order all my firearms off the computer, and send a money order with signed FFL copy to seller/dealer. I do not want tribute to go to the state in the form of taxes and no intrest for the credit card comp, I am good with cost shipping and transfer fee. Maybe I am missing something here, $499.00 + $20+/- for shipping + Indiana state sales tax of 7% $35+/- + $50 fee from said dealer, is already more than current 599.00 from kvar.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 2:00:59 PM EDT
One of the reasons this happened to you was due to the goofy way you went about getting the KVAR SGL. Next time take the simple route. It does suck what the shop did to you though.
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