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Posted: 9/26/2004 11:52:48 AM EST
GREETINGS TO ALL!!!

I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE IF THIS TOPIC WAS RECENTLY COVERED. I DID A SEARCH AND COULDN'T FIND THIS OR A SIMILAR TOPIC.

Ladies & Gentlemen... What can you tell me about this item which would be useful for evaluation?

Before you reply, let me give you some personal background and define what I am and am not looking for:

1) I spent over two decades as a grunt in the Marine Corps. Based on a few "excursions" on other continents, I have a great appreciate for the AK's designer and his gun.

2) Later on, I will be looking for some exact "copies" of AK-variants which were fielded, but not right now.

3) At the moment, I am looking for a Special Purpose Cartridge (SPC) fed semi-auto.

(Note: Whether DOD ever comes on board with a superior cartridge to the 5.56x45mm (M193 or SS109) before it fields the next mass-issue service "rifle"is not my personal concern. Professionally, however. I strongly support cartridges like the 6.5mm Grendel and the 6.8mm Rem (SPCs) as our trench fighters deserve nothing less than the best!!! The bureaucrat who doesn't think so is welcomed to be my special guest "in theater" and we'll see if his viewpoint changes. None-the-less the Special Purpose Cartridge candidates were measured against the historical and current "winner" which remains the 7.62x39mm cartridge.

3) For this current acquisition, I am attempting to find a balance between the modularity-enhanced AR-15/M-16A3/M-4 and the reliability and stopping power of a .30 cal intermediate round against deer andpotentially a man-sized target.

4) For my current use,

reliability is #1,

accuracy #2, and,

the agility to mount optical/red dot/ and laser modules is third, but remains an important requirement for the post-40 eyes.

I understand the only way to purchase a new on is through RGuns, Marc Kreb's sole distributor. Price is in the neighborhood of a Grand.

For those who have read this thank-you. For those responding a special thanks!!!

"Semper Fi",

USMC-0302

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 12:00:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 12:03:22 PM EST by mattld]
So wait, you want a 6.8 SPC AK variant?

Here is something in 6.8 SPC you might like.

www.robarm.com/xcrtm_modular_weapon_system.htm
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 12:23:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:21:47 PM EST
mattld,

No, not exactly. I think the 7.62x39mm is a proven Special Purpose Cartridge (SPC). I'm sure you know why the US Government won't go that way...1) the existing 5.56mm 30 round magazines wouldn't feed the round., 2) to manufacture new 30 round magazines would entail the extreme curve we all associate with the AK which to many procurement types just isn't copesetic.

Thanks for the link!!!hug.gif
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:50:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By USMC-0302:
mattld,

No, not exactly. I think the 7.62x39mm is a proven Special Purpose Cartridge (SPC). I'm sure you know why the US Government won't go that way...1) the existing 5.56mm 30 round magazines wouldn't feed the round., 2) to manufacture new 30 round magazines would entail the extreme curve we all associate with the AK which to many procurement types just isn't copesetic.

Thanks for the link!!!


Well if you going to get a 7.62 AK variant, then anything from Kreb's will work out just fine.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:32:16 AM EST
There was recently a reivew of the Krebs KTR 03s in the shotgun news. I have owned his other work. It is great stuff
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:33:32 AM EST
how does it keep zero??
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:34:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:10:15 PM EST
Reliabilty- Ak all the way. They may not be as as pretty or tack drivers, but it gets the job done and mine have always function flawlesly (unlike my Ar-15 buddies).

If money is no issue, give ithe KTR consideration or even wait for Robarm's XCR franken-rifle. Its supposed to have the best of the Ak and Ar world.

No doubt, Krebs work is awesome. The KTR is one bad-ass modified Vepr. I thought my Vepr was a bit too much but the KTR cost 2x as much. No disrespect, but if you got more money then sense, by all means get the KTR. I would like to have one but it is darn right expensive for an AK. You can buy 2-3 AKs for that price.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:39:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:10:38 AM EST by USMC-0302]
gargamel,

Thanks for bringing me back to reality regarding yet another factor: COST. My financial resources are limited as are most peoples. Even if that wasn't a practical consideration, is it worth spending nearly $1K on a Krebs VEPR conversion when there are wiser choices to be had.

Semper Fi,

USMC-0302

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:25:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:26:53 PM EST by gargamel]

Good luck on your gun search. The highest priced Aks i would buy :Vepr, Arsenal's SAM or Global Trades Aks. You also can't go wrong with the budget-minded homely Romanians AKs. I don't care what the most avid Ak buyers say, the Romanains can shoot just as good as their high priced pretty Aks. Maybe I got lucky with my old Sar, but it keeps up with my Vepr. Its all about what you want.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:21:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By gargamel:
I don't care what the most avid Ak buyers say, the Romanains can shoot just as good as their high priced pretty Aks. Maybe I got lucky with my old Sar, but it keeps up with my Vepr. Its all about what you want.



I will go a bit further here. I own a VEPR K and owned a Krebs M3A (I like shiny toys) but I went to the reange witha friend who has a SAR1 and it was on that day, the most accurate of the 3. This doesn't reflect on the superior craftmanship of either the VEPR or the Krebs, just that the Romainian can Shoot
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:51:20 AM EST
Well, I think if the KTR is reasonably accruate, reliable and holds zero. Its well worth the price. As a matter of fact, I intend to get one in 5.45 this spring. Just think of how much you'd spend on an AR. I must admit though, I mostly want one because their DEAD SEXY!!
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 8:58:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 8:30:41 PM EST by gargamel]

Originally Posted By davidp14:
Well, I think if the KTR is reasonably accruate, reliable and holds zero. Its well worth the price. As a matter of fact, I intend to get one in 5.45 this spring. Just think of how much you'd spend on an AR. I must admit though, I mostly want one because their DEAD SEXY!!



"accruate, reliable and holds zero"-- what decently built ak doesn't?? Amazing how Americans will spend a grand on an AK when some lucky ass in a foreign nations can trade a cow or 50 bucks for a 100% true non-domesticated Ak. Point is, its its a simple gun made to be reliable and hit human size targets. Yes the KTR is cool and well built. The rear sight is an improvement over the old school rear sights. I doubt a "sexy" Ak is gonna keep me warm like my chic but may impress a few shooters--big deal. A $1000 AR-15 has true potential to be a tack driver and very customized by that price. A $1000 Ak is just a fancy Ak thats just as reliable as a budget Ak and shoots just as good...and guess what? Its still an ak. Just me, but for a $$ thousand bucks, that Ak better shoot as good as it looks, but alas, the cheap Sar can still give it a run for its money and it still no dime shooting rifle.
At all comes down to eye candy and how much you like to burn. My 2 cents and its your money.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:50:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By gargamel:
My 2 cents and its your money.



Good point
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:48:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:26:35 PM EST
I would buy a SAR-1 and spent the extra cash customizing it. You'll get exactly what you want and still have a little money left over.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:02:47 PM EST
I would save up a little more coin and have a Galil built if I were going top drawer,
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:50:16 PM EST

The VEPR / Krebs rifle is heavy and all it really offers over the others is a peep sight for 400 extra dollars. They will not sell you spare parts either.

The Arsenal M-7S is a much better choice. Once you mount a scope or red dot you will never miss the peep sight anyway.

You might even wait to see if Arsenal offers a 7.62x39mm with a stamped receiver. That will drop the weight even further.

For ammunition, 123 grain Winchester PowerPoint is my top choice. It is reasonably priced, easily available, and designed for deer. For soft point plinking or the occasional deer, Barnaul 122 gr SP will do well for a lot less money. Wolf 154 gr SP is better for deer than the Barnaul and is just as cheap, but you might have to adjust your sights more. They would all do well as CQB rounds. Just stay away from the hollow points, they don't expand.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:05:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:02:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
Honestly, I would say build your own. You can do so for much less. It may not have the nice wonder finish that looks so pretty, but it will function the same. You can buy the parts online, and we can help you through the build.

It would be more fun, you would learn all you need to know about your rifle, and have only what you want.

I have nothing against the rifle you are looking at, and nothing against the company, I am just suggesting a different route.



If you know how to make the conversion I'm all ears........ the main selling points for me are the sights and the right-side galil type selector. How would you remove the original leaf sight and get rid of that trunion? I imagine that would be quite a bit of work. then of course theres adding the front sight onto the gas block. I think adapting the handguards wouldnt be too hard and installing the selector would be easy, but the rear sight conversion and the bbl and front sight job seems a little tough for me.

right now I'm debating either getting a Vepr K 5.45 to eventually convert to a KTR, or an M17S which would also be the base for a project gun.

I do think it would be cool/fun to do the mods myself.

Any links for the galil parts?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:18:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 6:20:52 AM EST by hardcorps1775]
colt used to make a 7.62x39mm ar15. not sure how much commonality it had with the standard 5.56 m-16/m-4 but it sure as hell looked the same!

there's also this guy but i've never heard any reviews on his product...: www.ar47.com/index.html
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:29:50 AM EST
AR47??.............................No thank you.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:32:24 AM EST
I talked to Mark Krebs last Friday at his booth at the Creek and his work is outstanding. He had a Saiga modified to KTR which suprised me........and of course VEPR's as KTR. Nice guns but expensive.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:18:34 AM EST
If your talking about the KTR-03VTM then no SAR1, SAM-7 or whatever hell else AK you think will be the same thing. As the KTR-03VTM uses the Vepr as a donor which has an RPK reciever not an AK reciever.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:33:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cleis102:
If your talking about the KTR-03VTM then no SAR1, SAM-7 or whatever hell else AK you think will be the same thing. As the KTR-03VTM uses the Vepr as a donor which has an RPK reciever not an AK reciever.



Yes Im talking about converting a VERR K to a KTR-03 Not talking about turning an AK or clone to a KTR, I was under the assumption that everyone already knew that.
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