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Posted: 3/23/2004 4:18:49 AM EST
All,

Based on a few of the SEAKs experiencing feed problems, I spoke with ORF over my concerns. ORF spoke with the manufacturer of the AK-74 receivers and found out that some of the receivers during production inadvertently received 7.62 ejectors instead of the correct 5.45 ejectors.

After checking the SEAK records, only 11 of the SEAKs in batch one were affected. Emails are being sent to those individuals at this time requesting the rifles be sent back to ORF for repair.

From what I understand, OOW AK-74 receivers with serial numbers under 1000 could have the wrong ejector installed.

OOW receivers (with the wrong ejectors) in stock at ORF are being pulled from the shelf. However, there are more than enough to finish the SEAK rifles in batch two and three.

Remember, SEAK rifles are guaranteed for one full year from ORF. No worries.

More details will follow.

Mods please tack this thread.

KF
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 4:37:11 AM EST
Emails sent to all eleven purchasers.

All remaining receivers for the SEAK project are being checked for the correct ejectors at this time.

KF
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 5:02:24 AM EST
Is there anyway we can check this ourselves and perhaps correct the problem without shipping the rifles back?

Obviously, if I'm asking this question I don't at the moment have the knowledge to correct the problem but if it's a simple fix I'd much rather do it than be without my SEAK.
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 5:16:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By krinkfreak:
All,

Based on a few of the SEAKs experiencing feed problems, I spoke with ORF over my concerns. ORF spoke with the manufacturer of the AK-74 receivers and found out that some of the receivers during production inadvertently received 7.62 ejectors instead of the correct 5.45 ejectors.

After checking the SEAK records, only 11 of the SEAKs in batch one were affected. Emails are being sent to those individuals at this time requesting the rifles be sent back to ORF for repair.

From what I understand, OOW AK-74 receivers with serial numbers under 1000 could have the wrong ejector installed.

OOW receivers (with the wrong ejectors) in stock at ORF are being pulled from the shelf. However, there are more than enough to finish the SEAK rifles in batch two and three.

Remember, SEAK rifles are guaranteed for one full year from ORF. No worries.

More details will follow.

Mods please tack this thread.

KF



Excellent !


5sub
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 6:03:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:
Is there anyway we can check this ourselves and perhaps correct the problem without shipping the rifles back?



I'm going to contact Mike and ask him to measure the ejector height on a correct receiver. If you have a set of calipers or micrometer to measure yours, then you may be able to check the ejector yourself.

The correct width from the outside of the receiver to the tip of the ejector should be at least .580 for a correct ejector.

One of the affected OOW receivers was measured at .557 which is incorrect.

Corrective action should most probably be accomplished by ORF to make sure the SEAK functions correctly, all of the time.

KF
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 8:02:22 AM EST
Guys,

The total difference between the ejector lengths is only .020". If you can measure it, go for it. If not, try this:

1) Put a spent case in the chamber.

2) Allow bolt to close on said round.

3) Cycle the action by hand.

If the case ejects normally, you should be fine. If it doesn't, get ahold of us.

That is about the easiest way to tell if you will have problems. They should throw the spent case a good 10', or so, when firing. The problem may or may not appear right away. It may take a few rounds to develope.

The manufacturer told us that serial numbers of 1000 or less could have this problem due to the AK-47 rails being installed instead of the AK-74 rails. I never had any thought to check this at assembly. We just found out about it a few days ago.

We regret any and all problems for you guys and will make it right, our fault or not!

Mike

Link Posted: 3/23/2004 12:54:38 PM EST
Bummer, both of mine measure out to .557.

I'll send the back ASAP.
Thanks for the info and prompt response guys.
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 1:00:14 PM EST
Motopix,

My apologies for the problem with your rifles. This defect was beyond our control with the SEAK project, but ORF will make it right.

On a positive note, lessons learned will definitely apply here.

"Murphy's Law ~ There's no such thing as a sure thing."

ORF will double-check all receivers for the correct ejector in the future...no matter what the receiver.

Take care,

KF
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 1:11:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/23/2004 6:51:28 PM EST by motopix]
Stuff happens, no big deal. It's how it's handled that's important and I'm happy with how it's being handled.

No worries here.

edit to add: I had no problems with either; 60 rounds through one and 20 through another.
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 1:21:27 PM EST
Well,

mine measured to .57", so I will be sending it back. It did eject ok, but I would rather be sure.

Thanks KF and ORF for looking out for us.
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 2:51:05 PM EST
Mine will be heading back as well. At least ORF is handling this the way it should be. Nothing like good guys standing up for their product.
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 4:03:24 PM EST
Guys, you have nothing to worry about, Todd and the ORF Team is a real stand up bunch of guys. I purchased a rifle form another FFL holder,out of state, and the rifle came in to ORF without a firing pin. Todd out the blue, offered the firing pin out of his own personal rifle without hesitation so I would able to test fire the rifle that weekend with Todd waiting for a replacement from the out of state dealer. I have nothing but good to say about Todd and crew. Patience gentlemen. ORF will make it right and worth your time.
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 4:45:58 PM EST
Shipped out this evening. Should be there in 2 days.

Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 3/23/2004 6:26:24 PM EST
Mine measures .580" exactly. Test firing is this weekend.
Link Posted: 3/24/2004 2:02:36 AM EST
Seak #74 will be going out Thursday or Friday. It's just been a hectic week for me.

Travis


Link Posted: 3/24/2004 2:39:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/24/2004 3:24:50 AM EST
Forgot to mention above that the ones coming back will take precedence over anything else. I plan to get them done and shipped back within 24 hours of receiving them, unless we get them on a Friday, then they will be shipped the following Monday. KF or I will email you when yours ships and supply a tracking number. Please don't give a return address with a p.o. box. UPS will not ship to them. Thanks for the understanding guys! Again, we are sorry about this,

Mike
Link Posted: 3/24/2004 4:20:15 AM EST
Are the guys here who have measured their own ejectors sending their rifles back as part of the original eleven (11) or additional receivers that have the problem? Just wondering since I have no way of measuring it myself.

Link Posted: 3/24/2004 5:05:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By me223:
Forgot to mention above that the ones coming back will take precedence over anything else. I plan to get them done and shipped back within 24 hours of receiving them, unless we get them on a Friday, then they will be shipped the following Monday. KF or I will email you when yours ships and supply a tracking number. Please don't give a return address with a p.o. box. UPS will not ship to them. Thanks for the understanding guys! Again, we are sorry about this,

Mike




Sounds good to me, Mike. Hey, you guys have nothing to be sorry about. You installed an receiver that was manufactured wrong. You didn't make it, but you are fixing it. That's all that counts.

You could have been like some other outfits that sold me a gun and when there was a problem(damage in shipping, bent barrel), their answer was to take it up with the manufacturer of the rifle, who was out of business.

So, you guys ar A-OK with me.

TRS

Link Posted: 3/24/2004 6:47:39 AM EST

They should throw the spent case a good 10', or so, when firing.



008 throws spent cases far enough to hit the 25M target stand.....now if I can just figure out how to aim them.....
Link Posted: 3/24/2004 6:48:20 PM EST
Anyway to post a photo of where to measure? I have gotten rid of the slide lock problem by adding a bit more disconnector, but tonight I was having some failure to feed problems. After my IDPA match, I stepped over to the rifle range and slow fired a 30 round mag to check the fcg adjsutments that I had made. I had 4 FtF in that mag. The bullet would be nose up with the tip in the chamber but not stripped completely off of the mag. Sadly I got kicked off of the range before I could test fire another magazine. Or might this be a bad mag? -Thanks
Link Posted: 3/25/2004 12:42:20 AM EST
BushyM4, yours was not one of the recalled receivers. You can measure from the outside of the receiver to furtherest part of the ejector.

Sounds like you either have a bad magazine, or the FCG still needs tweaking.

KF
Link Posted: 3/25/2004 2:47:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/25/2004 4:53:20 AM EST by BushyM4]
Thanks KF. I've marked that mag and will do some more testing this weekend.

Edit: btw, the ejector works fine, and the rifle is accurate. Groups are tightenig up nicely as round count goes up.
Link Posted: 3/25/2004 4:30:57 AM EST
Mine shoots the shells 3 stalls down at the range so I don't think I have a problem
Link Posted: 3/25/2004 5:14:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By BushyM4:
Sadly I got kicked off of the range before I could test fire another magazine.


Not to change the topic of this post but why were you kicked off the range? Seems kind of odd....
Link Posted: 3/25/2004 7:04:02 AM EST


Not to change the topic of this post but why were you kicked off the range? Seems kind of odd....



for terrorizing the customers with my evil black commie death ray. no, no, it was just closing time. idpa is over around 9 PM. :)
Link Posted: 4/5/2004 12:25:35 PM EST
To follow-up on this one, 260 more rounds this weekend with different mags, and no malfunctions. SEAK #003 ran flawlessly.
Link Posted: 4/5/2004 2:51:34 PM EST
Good to hear!!!

Mike
Link Posted: 4/5/2004 5:26:52 PM EST
Mike -

When you ship the repaired rifles back, do you provide tracking numbers? And also, how is the repair on #84 coming along? Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 1:49:50 AM EST
Matt,

Yours is done. Just sent an IM to you. We changed from UPS to FedEx and had software problems. Got it all staightened out and shipped back all rifles we had yesterday. Have to check on the tracking numbers.

Mike
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 12:36:02 PM EST
Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 2:40:22 PM EST
Mike,

I'm sure you'll hear a hundred different opinions on this but I just want to chime in and say that FedEx ground is terrible.

I have had more packages destroyed and/or arrive late at about a 100:1 ration versus UPS ground. And that is no exaggeration. Any other FedEx service has been great but the ground people are terrible.

Jeff


Link Posted: 4/6/2004 2:55:36 PM EST
I have to agree with mp.

Nearly every lost/delayed package I've had has been with FedEx ground. And it happens nearly every time with them.
To be fair, I live in a 'rural' area, but there have been times when they have had my package at the Toledo hub for 2 or 3 days before they even attempted delivery.

Maybe it is OK for those in larger cities, but for this country boy FedEx ground sucks major ass.


YMMV

Link Posted: 4/6/2004 3:11:14 PM EST
[>(][>Q][>(] Finally tried my SEAK today. Not good, seems to jam almost every round, even with different mags. Even jams if I load one round at a time. It did actually eject the spent case correctly about 5 times... out of 60.

Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to send it back for repair.
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 3:32:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By gunman0:
[>(][>Q][>(] Finally tried my SEAK today. Not good, seems to jam almost every round, even with different mags. Even jams if I load one round at a time. It did actually eject the spent case correctly about 5 times... out of 60.

Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to send it back for repair.


Was yours one of the few that may have had ejector problems? Krinkfreak sent an e-mail to everyone who had a rifle with a serial number below 1000 notifying them of the possible problems. Did you get such an email?
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 3:39:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By mattld:

Originally Posted By gunman0:
[>(][>Q][>(] Finally tried my SEAK today. Not good, seems to jam almost every round, even with different mags. Even jams if I load one round at a time. It did actually eject the spent case correctly about 5 times... out of 60.

Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to send it back for repair.


Was yours one of the few that may have had ejector problems? Krinkfreak sent an e-mail to everyone who had a rifle with a serial number below 1000 notifying them of the possible problems. Did you get such an email?



I didn't get one originally... he forgot me. But, he sent me one recently, and I finally got to the range to test the rifle. Yes, my SN# is under 1000, so it more than likely the ejector problem.

Link Posted: 4/6/2004 3:44:25 PM EST
Ok, sounds good. Get that thing back pronto! Mike and Todd will take care of you.

I am awaiting the re-arrival of mine soon this week.
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 4:30:30 PM EST
I'm glad to hear yours was one of the recalled ones. Sorry you got one, but glad it's not unexpected.

I must be one lucky mofo because neither of my recalled SEAKs had any problems at all which makes it all the more difficult to send them back for repairs.
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 4:58:33 PM EST
MP -

Did you send yours back? Because my SEAK had no problems whatsoever, but I sent it back just in case because it was one of the recalled ones. Better safe than sorry.
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 5:21:36 PM EST
Yea, the plum one I pulled from EE went out today and the other will go out tomorrow.

Better to deal with it now rather than have problems down the road. And especially if I go through with selling the one, I don't want someone else to have a problem with it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 5:33:05 PM EST
You were selling one!?!?!

Link Posted: 4/7/2004 4:56:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By gunman0:

Originally Posted By mattld:

Originally Posted By gunman0:
[>(][>Q][>(] Finally tried my SEAK today. Not good, seems to jam almost every round, even with different mags. Even jams if I load one round at a time. It did actually eject the spent case correctly about 5 times... out of 60.

Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to send it back for repair.


Was yours one of the few that may have had ejector problems? Krinkfreak sent an e-mail to everyone who had a rifle with a serial number below 1000 notifying them of the possible problems. Did you get such an email?



I didn't get one originally... he forgot me. But, he sent me one recently, and I finally got to the range to test the rifle. Yes, my SN# is under 1000, so it more than likely the ejector problem.




I received the email that should have gone to you. Since we used the same FFL there was a mix up.
Link Posted: 4/7/2004 1:01:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By mattld:
You were selling one!?!?!




I know, I'm a heretic. I'm still debating about it. I originally thought my friend would take one off my hands but he's on a non-spending spree.

Link Posted: 4/7/2004 2:31:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:

Originally Posted By mattld:
You were selling one!?!?!




I know, I'm a heretic. I'm still debating about it. I originally thought my friend would take one off my hands but he's on a non-spending spree.



I'll take it off your hands. How's $5 sound?
Link Posted: 4/22/2004 2:22:07 PM EST
Jeeze I'm a slacker.

I finally got mine sent in this week. You guys should have it by now. The only thing it did a couple of times was get a fired brass stuck in the chamber that I had to tap out with a cleaning rod.

Seems like it did it more and more the hotter the rifle was.

Any ideas?

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:53:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 6:38:16 PM EST by motopix]
Got my repaired SEAKs back today but no mags or tee shirts. I sent Todd an email, I'll let you know if they are being shipped seperately in case there are others receiving their repaired rifles without the compensatory goodies.

update: Todd responded, shirts and mags will follow when the shirt supply is restocked.

And I just want to say again, this has been a great group buy. looking forward to more ORF purchases (I think a CETME built by ORF post-ban will be next).
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:58:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:
Got my repaired SEAKs back today but no mags or tee shirts. I sent Todd an email, I'll let you know if they are being shipped seperately in case there are others receiving their repaired rifles without the compensatory goodies.

update: Todd responded, shirts and mags will follow when the shirt supply is restocked.

And I just want to say again, this has been a great group buy. looking forward to more ORF purchases (I think a CETME built by ORF post-ban will be next).



ahhh...should have read this before I sent Troy an email.
So they're doing that with all of us then?

Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:30:40 PM EST
That I do not know. He thought mags had been sent to me but was aware that the tees had not. Did you get neither mags or tee shirt?
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 7:26:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:
That I do not know. He thought mags had been sent to me but was aware that the tees had not. Did you get neither mags or tee shirt?



Nope, no mags or tee shirt. Just my seak back. Kinda chapped my ass to be honest with you since I paid my own shipping out there.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:48:52 AM EST
Guys,

For those of you who paid your own return shipping for the SEAK recall, ORF offered:

1. Free T-Shirt and Two Free AK-74 Bulgarian Magazines

or

2. They would issue a "call" ticket and the weapon would have been picked up from your front door at no expense to you.


Unfortunatly, they ran out of T-Shirts and have them on order right now. They will be sent to you. ORF stands by their products, reputation, and their valued customers.

KF
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:16:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By krinkfreak:
ORF stands by their products, reputation, and their valued customers.

KF



Yes they do.

Remember too, that this problem is the responsibility of thier supplier, not ORF.


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