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Posted: 1/17/2006 6:56:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Go here to upload photos....just upload the picture on to their website and copy/paste the link they provide to you and hit preview before you submit the post to make sure the picture will show. If it doesn't...then you copy and pasted the incorrect link. Very easy.
www.imageshack.us/ |
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Posted: 1/17/2006 7:09:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks, It is a bit late to start that up (it can be a bit adicting) so maybe later.
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Posted: 1/17/2006 7:25:58 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 1/17/2006 7:31:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Ok I did it anyways and now I feel stupid. I was actuly a gun called the PP-19
Thanks anyways I have a milling machine and the CAD skills so this style mag might be a project for me |
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Posted: 1/17/2006 7:40:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Big red X
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Posted: 1/17/2006 7:48:25 PM EDT
[#6]
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3808/pp193pq.jpg
Sorry my mistake. It's my first pic. Yes it is the Bizon, or at least they look the same. |
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Posted: 1/17/2006 8:03:37 PM EDT
[#7]
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg08-e.htm
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Posted: 1/18/2006 1:48:03 PM EDT
[#8]
1. Yes there is a 45 round 5.45x39.5mm magazine. You see it in Bin Laden's AKSU-74 in his propaganda videos. It was designed for the RPK-74.
2. Yes that gun exists, called the "Bison", and the "Bizon". It was designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov's son and uses a hellica style feed system (also seen on the FN P-90). It has been made in 9x18mm and 9x19mm. PP-19 may be another name for it, as PP stands for Pistolet-Pulemyot (its Russian, roughly it means Machine Pistol). I am not sure of the exact translation, but it is also found in the name "PPSh-41"... "PP" being the weapon classification and "Sh" standing for Shpagin who designed the weapon. |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 9:23:00 AM EDT
[#9]
The P90 does not use a helical (notice the "L") magazine. It simply turns the rounds 90 degrees before feeding. The Calico family of 9mm and .22 calibers from the 80's used helical drums.
That Bizon is a special 9mm version and the gun and mag are not interchangeable with other AKs and mags. It isn't going to be a very good CAD and CNC project unless you want to build a completely new receiver, barrel, trunnion, carrier, bolt, spring, etc. |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 6:03:43 PM EDT
[#10]
I have looked in to my manufactures licence. You never know.
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Posted: 1/19/2006 6:14:14 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm not doubting your abilities, I'm doubting whether you can build an ENTIRE 9mm AK47- helical mag and all. Can you?
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Posted: 1/19/2006 7:19:59 PM EDT
[#12]
I am not saying I will have it done by tommarow. Alot of reasearch and hard work it can be done. I was more interested in the mag designe. If I could make that in 7.62 then that would be cool.
I have taken college level engineering courses and I am lineing myself up to work for an engineering company. You ask can I, I say why can't I. Funds and field knowlege are really it. Out of all the pieces the barrel is really the hardest. Next being the reciever. Everything else is actualy rather easy. But that is another broject. The mag it what I really want to build. There might not be much of an advantage but it will look cool. |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 7:28:15 PM EDT
[#13]
making that mag in 7.62 would require it's overall diameter to be the full length of your 7.62 cartridge plus about 1/2". That's going to equate to almost 4" in diameter. Rifle cartridges are a little too long for this idea to work. .22 and 9mm are a whole other story though...
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Posted: 1/19/2006 7:37:42 PM EDT
[#14]
I would do it for more of the novalty and challenge of it. It doen't need to be practicle. It is a just because I can thing.
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Posted: 1/19/2006 7:48:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Hold on... we are thinking of two different things here. I now know what design you are thinking about. The stye I am thinking about is way different. I think it is the way the bison even works. I say that because here is the link to the Calico
world.guns.ru/smg/smg57-e.htm On the bison section it says that this is the gun it was based on. I want the cases to be lined up with the barrel and in a spiral patern. Does that clear things up? |
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Posted: 1/19/2006 8:00:26 PM EDT
[#16]
aw damn. I was thinking of a drawing of what must have been something else where the bullets are pointed outwards (inwards.)
I want to say it was a huge diagram of the ammo container for a GAU from an A-10 but I may still be wrong... yeah, this is the pic i was thinking of and for some reason thought even smaller helical feed magazines worked this way: 
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Posted: 1/20/2006 7:19:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Really? * The real Bizon helical mag holds 64 rounds, not 45. * The Remington 11-87 is a semi-automatic shotgun, not a pump. * The Saiga-12 accepts mags holding 5 or 8 rounds, not 7. And that's just off the top of my head. Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but it's not without its flaws. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 8:42:51 AM EDT
[#18]
-First off, the Saiga-12 5 round mag can hold 6 rounds with mild work to the floorplate. In fact, on Gunsnet there was an entire thread on modifying Saiga shotguns, from bayonet lugs to flash hiders. So 6 rounds in the mag +1 in the chamber is 7 rounds in a Saiga. I have never played Battlefield 2 but I am telling you right now what is possible.
-Second off, I apologize, I did spell helical wrong. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 3:06:15 PM EDT
[#19]
The bizon was named a PP-19 so there might be a difference. I never looked at the remington for thier action type listed in the game. As far as the player is comcerned it is semi (not full auto or bolt) I don't remember thier being a saiga 12 by I don't play as an egineer very much. I agree with you that there is flaws. The rag doll pyisics are way off but kinda funny to watch. For the most part it is pretty good. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 3:58:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Video Game designers work hard enough to get normal details correctly. They couldn't possibly fiddle around on gun forums long enough to find out about mild tweaking... Besides, would the average Saiga 12 magazine hold 6? No. |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 8:20:51 PM EDT
[#21]
No offense to you if you like this game, but the people who made it must be retarded or something, because anyone who actually knows anything about the weapons in the game will be able to pick out a lot of problems with it. One thing that made me laugh was the Arabs using Aks in 5.56, as far as I know they use 7.62x39mm.... |
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Posted: 1/21/2006 8:24:21 PM EDT
[#22]
that's why good game designers have military advisers, to make sure things like this don't happen. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 9:25:47 AM EDT
[#23]
You said the Saiga 12 could NOT hold 7 rounds, only 5 or 8. I simply corrected you and told you that yes it can. Also, if I was in a war type situation, I'm pretty sure I would hack up whatever I had to to get extra rounds in my magazines.
Just insight. I haven't played the game so I wouldn't know the specifics of this one. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 12:49:27 PM EDT
[#24]
I don't know of any real troops who will "hack up" anything just to get an extra round. This board is full of guys who have firsthand knowledge of war or are LEOs and who can tell you that they don't mess around with anything that works just to squeeze another round in. You are definitely just an armchair commando/ computer gamer knowitall it seems. zaphar- are you telling me that good military advisors would have told him that there is a group of civilians who have modified their mags to hold +1? This game is about armies and gear available to them. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 8:53:17 PM EDT
[#25]
I guess I wasn't clear, but what I meant was that game designers should have military contacts (peope who where/are in the military) to make sure that what they make is right. So you don't have 25 round AK-47 magazines and stuff... |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 9:16:07 PM EDT
[#26]
While I don't expect much from video games in terms of firearms accuracy, clearing up most of the mistakes you see is as simple as snagging a copy of "Jane's Guns" from your local library. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 10:27:44 AM EDT
[#27]
JosephR, what is crammed up your butt? I do not even PLAY computer games, as I mentioned earlier! Heck, I have dial up internet!
On the AK-47 magazines board, there was a picture of a magazine that a US soldier had captured. It was a training magazine, wrapped in tin foil so it could be used. On Dragunov.net, there is a picture of a Dragunov with a 10 round PSL magazine cut up to fit into it. Maybe most US military personell would not modify something to make it hold more rounds, but there are alot of people in the world who would. Most people I have talked to that have Saiga shotguns modify the magazines, it is not exacly rocket science. |
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Posted: 1/27/2006 1:16:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Nevermind, there is a blur in the upper left corner that I think is the casing....that puppy tosses them hard. |
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Posted: 1/27/2006 12:21:30 PM EDT
[#30]
If that is a newer design, why doesn't it have a AKSU style rear sight on the dustcover instead of the old style? Longer sight radius would come in handy on that short of a weapon.
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Posted: 1/27/2006 2:03:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Sorry Q-gunner. I was assuming it's not a standard practice- especially a standard military practice. The video game designers must have consulted with foreign experts then- something I wouldn't have guessed.
I guess I should have stated something like "I'd believe it if it were common for foreign militaries to do AND that the video game designers would have the insight to find and consult with one. If not then I would say NO!" sorry 
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Posted: 1/27/2006 3:04:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Look. A video game designer would take less than 5 minuites on here or gunsnet to find an article about the Saiga 12 that contains info on modifying a magazine. Since the US military doesn't even USE the Saiga 12 you have no reason to say they wouldn't mod the mags. If an M-16 was a Saiga 12 then maybe you would be right. But it isn't. And as of now, you aren't.
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Posted: 1/27/2006 4:44:50 PM EDT
[#33]
hey, as much as it bothers all of us, do you really think they designers, let alone the people who play them regularly are gonna notice stuff like this? most of the people i know that play these sort of games have never even held a real gun before so it's not like its gonna cost the company to overlook some details. who's gonna notice, let alone care? (besides diehard gun nuts with a keen eye...)
and besides, that's nothin until you play counterstrike and watch the guy recock the M4 by pulling on the forward assist 
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Posted: 1/27/2006 6:00:33 PM EDT
[#34]
OK. Now you are pissing me off. I was trying to be nice. But now I'll agree with what you just said. What was our original argument? I got involved when someone stated that even though the number in the game is wrong, it can be done with modifying mags. I said that it is stupid to modify or alter mags used in war just to hold one extra round- for obvious reasons. I said "sorry" because I conceded to the fact that maybe it is done elsewhere around the world on an army-wide basis and then continued to just say "oh well, they missed it because they don't consult with foreign experts." Then you had to go and be a dick. If the stock mags hold a certain number of rounds and the game developers have it hold a greater number, why are you calling me an idiot or so insistent on saying I'm wrong? Someone else said that it was possible that they could hold more and I said it was UNLIKELY THAT THE GAME DESIGNERS KNEW THAT. You wanna calle me out on that still? It's fucks like you that give noobs a bad name. Go figure. You probably wouldn't know a fucking thing about the AR15 if it weren't for video games. You are the same jackass that says P90s use a "helica feed system" when you had no clue it's called "helical" (even though you claim it was a spelling mistake- you simply knew no better) and the P90 doesn't use it. |
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Posted: 1/27/2006 7:43:06 PM EDT
[#35]
YOU are the kind of dousche bag that gives gun owners a bad name, intolerant screwups that can't understand that a videogame designer just might look on a site to get some info and can't understand that people modify things all the time. Look at the videos of Iraqi captured guns! Taped magazines, cut magazines, everything screwed up in all types of wierd ways. Also, US military personell add scopes and grips and things to their rifles all the time! Adding one round may not seem important if you already have 30, but if you have 5 and each additional round can hold 9 pellets of 000 Buck, it makes a huge difference!
The first time I saw an AR was when I was out shooting with my brother. Shot it, didn't like it. The only thing I liked was being able to disengage the bolt hold open with an empy magazine still in the rifle (makes single round loading easier). But then again you with your nerdy 5.56 Inside icon probably didn't know that, or even know what a forward assist DOES! I talked to a dealer at the last gun show and he said the mag system was helical. I took his word for it. I do not have the $1,800 to blow on a PS-90 and do not go around like a nerd reading every gun book in existance. I would rather go shoot and have fun. So excuse me for 1. Being right on this thread and 2. Upsetting your precious little world by accidently calling a magazine system on a relatively new weapon "helical". EDIT: hey moron, amazing news: "Helica" is "Helical" without the L! Its called a typo! Astonishing! I apologize for not obsessively spellchecking my posts like a nerd, maybe you can learn to GET OVER IT. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 7:24:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Guys, cool it down. does it really matter? I simply was wondering if something existed. Not how accurat everything is. So what if the are or are not accurate. It is only people like us who know the difference. Most people eather don't know of don't care if it is accurate. By me saying accurate I was trying to get at that they wouldn't just make something up. They got it from some where. I was wondering where. That is answered for me know. I thank you guys for your helping me out. But really, what did you gain from arguing?
Anyways yekimak was looking for the casing. If you look by his nose it is there. It blends in with his face at first but once you find it you can't miss it. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 8:07:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Sounds like you've got sand in your vagina. You also sound like you don't know anything about what you are spewing on and on about.
The game designers went to a certain extent to get information. Just because they didn't visit your favorite forum dedicated to hacking up mags for POS rifles doesn't mean they are any less of a person than you. Hell, they have a job and make products that people enjoy. You just make french fries. Bolt hold open? Most decent rifles have a bolt hold open. You think I don't know what a bolt hold open is or what a forward assist is for because I have "5.56 Inside" for an avatar? Where do you get off little man? What makes you think it's even possible to own an AR and not know either of those two things. There isn't a person alive who owns an AR15 and doesn't know what the bolt hold open does or what a forward assist is for. The PS90s are $1400. You typed "helica" because you thought it was "helica." You didn't know you made a mistake until I told you. I don't have to be a nerd to know English. But then again, I didn't grow up in Virginia. I'm guessing you might be really close to the mountains, huh?  The fact is someone had asked a silly question about the capacity of a magazine in a game being off and you spouted at the mouth about how if you do this and that then you can cram in an extra round or two. After that you went on and on about other bullshit that was wrong and incorrect. You haven't said anything correctly thus far. You ought to just keep your cock warmer shut. Stay over on the AK side and keep them busy with your bullshit and whining. ARs are for guys with a little more class and money than you can afford. No offense to the AK crowd but you belong over there. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 8:20:37 PM EDT
[#38]
1. The Saiga 12 is a SHOTGUN, not a rifle.
2. The AK-47 is one of the most succsessful rifles in history, adopted and in service with more countries than the AR-15 could ever hope to be. And... no bolt hold open. 3. Shotgun News says the price for a PS-90 currently is $1,800. FN gives it an even higher MSRP of $1,900. 4. You said I have said nothing correct thus far. So you can't release the bolt hold open on an AR-15 with an empty mag in it? There, I just gave some facts. I edited this because I originally made an insulting post worthy of banning. But I will not argue with those with the minds of children. You know what, JosephR, if you want to argue, then I'm sure the wall will listen. I have better things to do than waste my time on some guy who has nothing better to do than fight on the internet. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 8:45:34 PM EDT
[#39]
You talk the good talk. You say you don't want to argue like I am and that I'm an idiot for arguing but you aren't shutting up. The word around here on the price of PS90s is $1400- but that is a moot point. You brought up the price as the reason you couldn't possibly know the magazine isn't helical when you stated it was. What? You state you can't know what the feed system is because you can't afford the rifle but you had already told us what it is- kinda wierd. You seem to open your mouth a lot around here with "guesses" and always edit your posts later. You accuse me of being a nerd and reading all sorts of crap about guns. You just explained that you got your incorrect info from reading "Shotgun News." |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 8:55:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Here is how I choose to end this...
OK. You win, you are the victor, you know everything, you are the king, whatever you want to believe. Now will me typing that stop you from going through all of my posts and following me around on topics just to try to find something to make fun of? Seriously, that is just creepy. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:22:58 PM EDT
[#41]
I do have a slight smile only because I knew you were going to type "You win" but I didn't expect the other stuff.
You decided to be a dick when you assumed you knew what video game gurus were supposed to do regarding researching. I was only trying to get you to realize they might not be able to get too involved in researching every aspect and you just had to give me crap about ARs and how I was probably too stupid to understand what a FA is for or how the bolt release works. I'm past that shit dude and have been for 20 years. I just didn't need a guy with 140 posts on an AR15 board try to insinuate otherwise. Thanks and have a nice day! 
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:33:04 PM EDT
[#42]
I didn't ask for your life story. Seriously, WTF does someone have to do to shut you up? Jeez if you were past it you would have not even started stalking me or arguing.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:43:08 PM EDT
[#43]
My life story? You are one ignorant SOB. You seem to like to knock me for saying something when you are guilty of saying the same sort of thing. You've told me more about you shooting your brother's AR than I've told you.
How am I stalking you? Are you talking about the thread I found where you were talking about kissing some dude on the mouth for an AK47 magazine? Sorry  you say
Was I arguing when I made the following post? No, it wasn't until after you threw a little tantrum about your expert knowledge that I got pissed.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:46:39 PM EDT
[#44]
You mean a joke I made about getting a good deal on magazines that you dug up after it hadn't been posted on in over a week and harrased me on it because you wanted to feel big?
That post? Yeah, I would consider that a little creepy. Just a little. BTW, if anyone is interested, the link is here. Anyway... go home. Go to sleep. Relax. Really, I said I was fine and you posted crap, so I said OK you win and you still posted crap, so now I am just getting really annoyed. GO AWAY. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:47:47 PM EDT
[#45]
I meant to make a comment on this earlier. You are wrong in this case. The US does not modify weapons and equipment like that. We don't win wars because we jerry-rig weapons and magazines. ETA: I am looking for correct Polish mags for my PMKMS. I look at a lot of AK threads regarding mag IDs and pricing. I want just a few correct mags, nothing fancy but something that's correct. What are you doing? Keeping track of me and my posts? Checking to see if I post in the same general vicinity as you? You aren't a member and don't have an active topics list. You are basically accusing me of tracking you down- is that how you saw me post there? |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:50:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Wow... this guy is like the energizer bunny of the mental ward...
Anyway, hey, about that Bizon SMG... is the one pictured in 9x18mm or 9x19mm? I've read about two models existing, just curious. EDIT: I subscribe to threads of intrest. See, there is a little button that says "Subscribe" at the top and bottom of each thread. Some of these I subscribe to if I am interested in them. Now, I get an email notification of these threads when new posts are put on them. After almost two weeks I get a notice on this one thread. Lo and behold, you went through all of my posts just to find something to make fun of. Almost an hour afterwords, you try to cover your tracks by claiming you were looking for Polish AK mags... but you made no mention of wanting Polish mags in the first post. You called me a queer and then left. Do you REALLY want Polish mags? OK, fine. The Sportsmans Guide has them on sale, 2 or more for $9.95 each. The two I got were in pretty good condition, no dents or rust, just minor scratches to the finish. Good mags for use. If you want the polymer style mags, www.jandcsales.com/ had them for $15 each, less if you buy in bulk. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:58:42 PM EDT
[#47]
There are 5 calibers available.
9 x 18 Makarov PM, 9 x 18 Makarov High Impulse PMM, 9x19 PARA, 9x17 Short, 7.72x25 TT That would probably be the 9x18mm version. The 9x19 is newer than the 9x18mm version. This is the 9x18 http://world.guns.ru/smg/bizon.jpg the forearm and muzzle device are different than the color photo from above. The color photo above appears to have the original AK rear sight while the b&w photo has the sight with the ears. Then again, both photos are probably of the 9x18mm because supposedly the 9x19 and 7.62 was available with a smaller capacity magazine- 45 as opposed to the 64 of the 9x18mm. ETA: the color pic is a Bizon-2 |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:07:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Uhhh... are there 3 or 5? I started to post on the claim there were 3 but then you edited again... so I guess 5 unless you update again...
Anyway are you sure that version shown is the 9x18mm? It looks newer, and as we know Russia is switching to the 9x19mm NATO so it seems logical that Russia would want their newer weapons systems to be in line with the new changes. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:09:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Do you really need a list of all of the threads I looked at?
Do you really need a list of all the threads I've responded to in the last few days? Will you sleep easier at night knowing you aren't that damn interesting to me? After reading what you wrote in that thread, how could I resists making that comment anyway? Don't feel too special- I would have given anyone shit for that comment. I will check into the polymer mags. Thanks. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:10:08 PM EDT
[#50]
well I've also got this pic of a Bizon-3
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