I'll tell you what...Im far from a liberal...pretty right wing mostly...but Bush is a first class piece of shit and the sooner you guys realize it the better off were gonna be....hes not on our side...hes on his side......the rich guys side. What there doing in NO should be stopped by armed citizens. we have troops from other countries being billeted and trained on how to disarm us here in the US.....one of the main reasons for our war of independance...I think those fellows would be mighty down hearted to see what their blood and guts has finally achieved....just the opposite of what we have today. When is enough enough???? Where does it stop??????????????
******************************************************

Total Gun Confiscation of Law Abiding Citizens Begins
Federal forces lead criminal gangs of police in America-killing gun grab

Alex Jones/Infowars.com | September 9 2005

“The balloon has gone up, the shoe has dropped. Anyone doubting the criminal intentions of the social engineer control-freaks in Washington need only look at middle-class neighborhoods being stormed by black-masked wearing jackboots on a mission to steal guns.

This is a precedent setting case for national gun confiscation. This is a clear declaration of war by the Federal Government against the American people. This is exactly how Lexington and Concord started the Revolutionary War in 1775.”

– Alex Jones

The federal government has been chomping at the bit for decades to disarm the American people, and now an amalgamation of state and local police led by the BATF are having their deepest desire fulfilled in New Orleans.

Major newspapers are reporting that in middle-class neighborhoods undamaged by floodwaters paramilitary police are going door-to-door demanding citizens’ firearms.

The New York Times even admitted that this is so the citizenry cannot resist when they are physically forced to leave their homes.

Most of the residents are contentious nurses and power plant employees who are currently working in key areas of infrastructure. Others refuse to leave because early on they were told they would have to break up their families to do so. Still more refuse to leave and give up beloved family pets.

Hold outs, many of whom have a year’s supply of food and water filters, tell the police, “We’re the people who stopped the looters when you guys were nowhere to be seen in the first six days.”

So the Federal Government does a horrible job delivering food and water to people they told to go to the Superdome, and now, almost two weeks later, they say the city is under their control. Their main mission: going door-to-door and confiscating American citizens’ lawfully owned firearms. This is treason. This is sedition against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and our way of life.

I have been to over 10 urban warfare training drills where the military and the police work together. The national news always reports that it’s disaster relief training, when the truth is that they greedily train to subdue peaceful populations, disarm them and break up families.

Remember back in 1993, when Bill Clinton announced weapon sweeps of public housing without warrants? They did it to the disadvantaged then, and most people didn’t care. Now, they are doing it to the middle-class in plain view of the world.

They’re setting a precedent to take your property, to take your children, to take your guns. The courts have ruled over and over again that the police have no obligation to protect the public. At the same time, police have been trained that there really isn’t a Second Amendment and that Americans really don’t have a right to protect themselves.

This unfolding gun confiscation tragedy stands as a monument to the true intentions of this parasitic government. It wants you disarmed and under heel. It wants slaves – subjects, not citizens.

The law-abiding gun owning citizens of New Orleans are having their life line severed and the American people are witnessing a giant gun confiscation drill.

There should be a howling, screaming the likes of which has never been heard against the Bush administration that is in control of New Orleans. If we let them legitimize gun confiscation for security, they are going to use this all over the country.

Lord Bush is already licking his lips and talking about making Gonzalez, a person who is adamantly anti-gun, his pick to succeed Rehnquist.

All Americans can now count on this: when you're in trouble or when you're in crisis, the "authorities" aren't going to come with aid. They're going to send a squad of goons to take advantage of the situation, take your guns and drag you off to a FEMA camp. This is what we pay taxes for.

Related: New Orleans Begins Confiscating Firearms as Water Recedes

First off, this should be in the General Discuccion section. Sorry.

As for New Orleans and the gun control? Yes, it is against their constitutional rights, but instead of blaming the Gov. blame the handfull of idiots that were shooting at the rescue helicopters when this all began.

It's all those idiots fault.

blah blah blah

BS....the people thier taking guns from are the law abiding citizens who protected theirselves from the scum bags....to justify any type of gun control shows a lack of integrity......and I'll post the damn thing where I want...since when are you a mod here on the boards?????????? Or is it I bad mouthed your boy?????? The anti constitution president.

Quoted: I'll tell you what...Im far from a liberal...pretty right wing mostly...but Bush is a first class piece of shit and the sooner you guys realize it the better off were gonna be....

I agree 100% The problem is that the Republicans and Democrats have both been very sucessful in deviding America into one or the other. If you point out problems with Bush, then you must be a liberal. I say if you ignore the truth about any politician, it doesn't matter which side you're on. For me it doesn't matter what party you belong to, if you disregard our Constitution you are the enemy.

Quoted: First off, this should be in the General Discuccion section. Sorry. As for New Orleans and the gun control? Yes, it is against their constitutional rights, but instead of blaming the Gov. blame the handfull of idiots that were shooting at the rescue helicopters when this all began. It's all those idiots fault.

???? It's the Gov. that taking away the guns.

What you seem to not realize is, The Best and Brightest in our society don't make it to the higher levels of gov't like the Presidency.

Often times you are choosing between to mediocre people at best.
You have to decide that if Kerry and the dems were in power do you think your gun rights would be increased or decreased?

Compare your gun rights Now to when say clinton and hillary ruled the oval office.
These days you can buy Hi Cap Anything , Full auto, SBRs. AOWs, Silencers, etc. But this is mostly in Red states. ....If this does not tell you something already.


You Will NEVER find a politician that will completely agree with you 100%.

You are essentially choosing between the lesser of two evils. Bush or Kerry.
Which one do you stand the most to gain from? Which one do you stand the most to lose from? (when it comes from your right's as a gun owner) I think the choice is simple.
I never thought I would see another AK with a bayo lug or brake brought into the country. Nor did I ever expect to have an AR with all those evil features. But I voted, and so I can look here on the EE and have alllll the stuff which was illegal a number of years back.

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day: But a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of Ministers, too plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to Slavery"

Thomas Jefferson, Author of the Declaration of Independence ...

Quoted: What you seem to not realize is, The Best and Brightest in our society don't make it to the higher levels of gov't like the Presidency. Often times you are choosing between to mediocre people at best. You have to decide that if Kerry and the dems were in power do you think your gun rights would be increased or decreased? Compare your gun rights Now to when say clinton and hillary ruled the oval office. These days you can buy Hi Cap Anything , Full auto, SBRs. AOWs, Silencers, etc. But this is mostly in Red states. ....If this does not tell you something already. You Will NEVER find a politician that will completely agree with you 100%. You are essentially choosing between the lesser of two evils. Bush or Kerry. Which one do you stand the most to gain from? Which one do you stand the most to lose from? (when it comes from your right's as a gun owner) I think the choice is simple. I never thought I would see another AK with a bayo lug or brake brought into the country. Nor did I ever expect to have an AR with all those evil features. But I voted, and so I can look here on the EE and have alllll the stuff which was illegal a number of years back.

Understood, and good point, and I'm not suggesting Kerry would be any better. I just wish Bush would step up to the plate and defend our Constitutional Rights. That's one thing the Federal Gov. is supposed to do. Defend those rights when they are threatened.

Quoted: Quoted: First off, this should be in the General Discuccion section. Sorry. As for New Orleans and the gun control? Yes, it is against their constitutional rights, but instead of blaming the Gov. blame the handfull of idiots that were shooting at the rescue helicopters when this all began. It's all those idiots fault. ???? It's the Gov. that taking away the guns.

Yeah, see, I look at things at a more basic level. No political parties, or evil government conspiracys.

When the first choppers went in to survey the damage after the hurricane, several of them took fire from several idiots. Now, if I were working with the rescue organizations, I sure wouldn't want to be shot at, especially when trying to help. It was those handfulls of idiots taking pot shots at choppers that drew the attention to firearms. Those guys blew it for the rest of the citizens.

(pertaining to New Orleans, nothing else)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: First off, this should be in the General Discuccion section. Sorry. As for New Orleans and the gun control? Yes, it is against their constitutional rights, but instead of blaming the Gov. blame the handfull of idiots that were shooting at the rescue helicopters when this all began. It's all those idiots fault. ???? It's the Gov. that taking away the guns. Yeah, see, I look at things at a more basic level. No political parties, or evil government conspiracys. When the first choppers went in to survey the damage after the hurricane, several of them took fire from several idiots. Now, if I were working with the rescue organizations, I sure wouldn't want to be shot at, especially when trying to help. It was those handfulls of idiots taking pot shots at choppers that drew the attention to firearms. Those guys blew it for the rest of the citizens. (pertaining to New Orleans, nothing else)

So you think alcohol should be banned because of DUI's? Maybe regulators on vehicles because of speeders? Maybe ban dog ownership because of dog fighting? No, you punish criminals when THEY brake the law, not everybody in the name of "safety". You should be the first one to get in line for your I.D. # Tattoo.

Quoted: (pertaining to New Orleans, nothing else)

I like how you pick and choose when to give up OUR rights. "pertaining to New Orleans, nothing else" Yeah, right.......

i'm liberal, very liberal and i dispise what bush is doing to this country on many levels. that isn't to say that i thought clinton did a great job. just the opposite. i suppose my liberalism has escaped definition and in fact falls to a level of idealism more over extremism. i aplaud anyone who is willing to break partisan lines that are so deeply sewn now to see that governments are no pro-people and that are in fact working in a very clear manner against the very things it says it isn't. jakethesnake, you described well who makes it to office, it isn't the smart, its the rich and money has to exclusive nature as to checking to make sure that brains are required for power.

troop, you said he was on the rich persons side and that was made most true to me by an audio clip i have somewhere of him saying "some people call you the elite, i call you my core".

i believe i already saw the jefferson quote on single acts of oppression, i would like to submit a few others that i find pertinent to the consersation.

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.

Abraham Lincoln

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy

James Madison

when i fall asleep at night, i ask myself why so many people today have to worry about tomarrow and why in a land of so much that anyone is being forced to go with so little. i'm as disguisted now with the way our country is becomming as i believe is possible to ever have been before. Not only now do i fear for the future, i fear for the ability to change it.

Quoted: "Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day: But a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of Ministers, too plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to Slavery" Thomas Jefferson, Author of the Declaration of Independence ...

Apache659...no truer words have been spoken.

Compare your gun rights Now to when say clinton and hillary ruled the oval office. These days you can buy Hi Cap Anything , Full auto, SBRs. AOWs, Silencers, etc. But this is mostly in Red states. ....If this does not tell you something already.

Dont kid yourself, ok. Things are only better now because the AWB had a sunset clause. The republicans would never have lifted a finger to remove it, just like they're unwilling to do anything about other gun control laws while they control the .gov.

And as far as i'm concerned i cant buy full autos. I could have a full auto AK for $400, but with the screwed up laws we have it would be more like $20,000.

krink...it says at the top of the article.....Alex Jones/Infowars.

Quoted: Post the links to the newspapers that are reporting the mass confiscations of privately owned weapons.

Here's one.

How do you like 'em apples now?  Fuck your 2nd Amendment, said the superintendent of police and all participating governmental agencies.  This is happening and will happen to you some day.  What would you do?

Quoted:  This is happening and will happen to you some day.  What would you do?

Some things are better left,un-spoken.

I can "kinda" see why they don't want people armed.... but this is a little ridiculous.

It's the age old tale that "criminals will always have guns" !

If I were a national guardsman or policeman I would be a little on edge about everyone having guns.... but I cannot understand why they would be taking the guns from people that have them legally  

They've basically started a profiling system, real quick. It goes something like this : " If you have a gun, legal or not, you are considered hostile and dangerous"

Also, what is the definitive story about the men shot by police ?  Was it contractors for the Army Corp of Engineers or "gunmen" ?
I still cannot find an accurate article on that incident.

Anyway, I can see both sides to this argument, but those ignorant asses ( elected officials & .gov agencies ) still don't get it !!! Armed citizens with legal guns are not the problem... They never have been !  It is and always will be the criminals that keep their guns and make all the trouble. If they take all our guns today, the criminals will still have them tomorrow !

When are they going to realize that  

Quoted: Post the links to the newspapers that are reporting the mass confiscations of privately owned weapons.

apnews.myway.com/article/20050910/D8CHFDIO1.html

N.O. Police Say They Are Regaining Control


Sep 10, 11:07 AM (ET)

By ERIN McCLAM


NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The first street-by-street sweep of this swamped city revealed far fewer corpses than originally feared, and the police chief said Saturday his hard-pressed force was regaining control despite a shortage of roughly 300 officers.

"We're much more organized at this point," said Police Chief Eddie Compass. "We have our logistics in order and the patrols are going very well."

Compass said more than 200 people had been arrested in recent days and were being held in a makeshift jail.

Of a force of 1,750, Compass said he is short about 300 officers, but he had offered no details about where they were or why they were not available for duty.


"I can't worry about that now," he said. "We're doing the job we have to do."

Mayor Ray Nagin and others had predicted up to 10,000 deaths in New Orleans, but that number appeared less likely after a count on Friday, said retired Marine Col. Terry Ebbert, the city's homeland security chief.

"Some of the catastrophic deaths that some people predicted may not have occurred," Ebbert said.

He declined to give a revised estimate, but said: "Numbers so far are relatively minor as compared to the dire projections of 10,000."

Also Friday, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers projected it will take a month to dry out New Orleans, which had been 80 percent covered following the storm and levee breaches. The Corps previously said it could take 80 days.


The news came as authorities shifted most of their attention to counting and removing the dead, after days spent cajoling the living to get out of a city beset by fetid floodwaters and scattered fires.

Since the hurricane struck Aug. 29, residents, rescuers and cadaver-sniffing dogs have found bodies floating in the water, trapped in attics or left on broken highways. Some were dropped off at hospital doorsteps or left slumped in wheelchairs out in the open.

Police and soldiers had been marking houses where corpses were found, or noting their location with global positioning devices, so that the bodies could be collected later.

Nagin had suggested last weekend that "it wouldn't be unreasonable to have 10,000" dead, and authorities ordered 25,000 body bags. But soldiers brought in over the past few days to help in the search were not seeing that kind of toll.

"There's nothing at all in the magnitude we anticipated," said Maj. Gen. Bill Caldwell, commander of the Army's 82nd Airborne Division.



Ebbert said the search for the dead will be done block-by-block, with no news media allowed to follow along.

"You can imagine sitting in Houston and watching somebody removed from your parents' property," he said. "We don't think that's proper."

State officials could not provide an exact count of the dead recovered so far. Corpses from New Orleans were taken to a morgue in nearby St. Gabriel, where medical examiners worked to identify the remains.

Still, thousands of stubborn holdouts were believed to be staying put in the city.

"There are still quite a few still holed up in their homes," said Oklahoma Army National Guard Brig. Gen. Myles L. Deering. "We'll continue to check on them to make sure they're OK and try to encourage them to leave."



Health officials also noted that aerial spraying of pesticides will begin Sunday to curb mosquito-borne illnesses such as West Nile virus.

There were no widespread reports of anyone being taken out by force under a three-day-old order from the mayor, and there were growing indications that that was little more than an empty threat.

"We're trying our best to persuasively negotiate and we are not using force at this time - I cannot speak to the future," said city attorney Sherry Landry.

Police fearing deadly confrontations with jittery residents enforced a new order that bars homeowners from owning guns. That order apparently does not apply to the hundreds of M-16-toting private security guards hired to protect businesses and wealthy property owners.

In a shift, the military began providing cages to homeowners to allow them to evacuate with their pets. "We got the capacity, and it seemed like the right thing to do," said Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore.

Meanwhile, the floodwaters continued to recede, with about three dozen of the 174 pumps in the area working and an additional 17 portable pumps in place. About 350,000 people in the New Orleans area were still without electricity, but utilities said some power has been restored to the central business district.

Authorities said the airport will reopen to commercial flights Sept. 19. And a $30.9 million contract was signed to rebuild the Interstate 10 bridge over Lake Pontchartrain that sustained major hurricane damage.

The developments in New Orleans came against an increasingly stormy backdrop in Washington, where Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown was relieved of his command of the onsite relief efforts amid increasing criticism over the sluggishness of the agency's response and questions over his background.

They won't get it.  More accurately, they pretend that they don't get it.  It's all about power and control.  I have been there.  I know how it works.  My mother land used to be like that.  To a large extend, it still is like that.  I remember the days when those who dare criticize the government would simply disappear overnight and never to be seen again.

Better left unspoken?  When should I say it?  When I am in a dark dungeon somewhere in the US wondering when I am going to be executed?  I did not come half way around the world to get pushed around.  I could have gotten that back in the mother land.

Those who never have to live without know not what they have.

Quoted: Better left unspoken?  When should I say it?  When I am in a dark dungeon somewhere in the US wondering when I am going to be executed?  I did not come half way around the world to get pushed around.  I could have gotten that back in the mother land. Those who never have to live without know not what they have.

I did'nt mean you,I mean me.I'll not announce what steps I'll take in a similar situation.

Quoted: I did'nt mean you,I mean me.I'll not announce what steps I'll take in a similar situation.

ETA: I thought you were saying that I should not have the dooms day attitude of "this will happen to you some day."  LOL!
I didn't say what I would do either.  Frankly, I don't know for sure until I am forced to make a sad decision like that.  I can say whatever I want regarding what I would do but who knows if I will just piss in my pants and hand the guns over or overcome my fears and fight back.  Talk is cheap especially on the internet.

This is why it says in the bible ' put not your trust in men'

I watched police help a guy load almost 100 guns including a 50 cal BMG into a moving truck so they could be saved.

I think they are trying to get rid of the OK corral environment not disarm law abiding citizens.

LOL...sure they wernet stealing them LOL

The "shall not infringe" crowd really needs to read the Constitution....especially Article 5.

There simply are no absolute rights afforded by the Constitution.  The document creates polititicians by design.  It's what the founding fathers intended and it's why this country has survived the insueing 216 years since it was written.  

Article 5 has been used successfully 27 times up to this point.  To assume the 2nd amendment can be pushed to provide unlimited "gun rights" only invites #28.



P.S.  If I were a resident of NO right now and doing nothing more than protecting my property and the government came to confiscate my guns, I would probably end up dead or in jail but I sure as hell wouldn't be blaming Bush.  My question is why the hell isn't someone filing suit in Federal Court to stop such confiscations?

I have to say that I am somewhat disgusted at the general resopnse of the authorities in the wake of this horrible storm...what a clusterfuck of ineptitude was displayed by every government service in the first few days after the storm...it makes me bow my head in shame that such a thing could happen in this country...sickening.

That said I am also very disgusted by the actions of people in New Orleans who used the time during the storm and the lawlessness afterward to Rape , Pillage and murder.....steal everything they could get their hands on, and run in murdurous gangs in the street while reporters sent video of it to a greedy worldwide media...which also makes me hang my head in shame...to share a common nationality with these scumbags makes me sick.

I also am a fervent advocate of the right to keep and bear arms in this society...and for this reason I feel conflicted when supporting the police and military forces in New Orleans who want to temporarily disarm the refugees who are still in that city...I wouldn't want anyone to take my gun from me, and if I wanted to stay there I would expect that I should be given that right...However the people who are there in an effort to keep the peace seem to think that to stabilize the situation, everyone should leave( be evacuated) and they don't want the evacuees to be able to shoot at them while they are evacuating them....At least they don't want to be shot at anymore, and I respect that..

I guess the true test of what the government's intentions are, will be what occours in the coming months in Washington...will the anti-gun lobby be able to use the actions of a few misguided souls to jeopardize my second ammendment rights? I feel like we will most certainly find out sooner than later..

I also think that this kind of tradjedy is unprecedented in most everyone's lifetime....and  no-one was prepared for such a terrible aftermath...I also know that this country will survive, and things will get back to normal...it's sound minds in the center of chaos that always prevail...Keep your eyes on Washington and those anti-gun snakes is the best advice I can give .....

Quoted: It's all those idiots fault Those guys blew it for the rest of the citizens. (pertaining to New Orleans, nothing else)

Well how about this.. The pigs in NO are breaking the law.. So I say ersidents of NO get NO Federal aid since the un-Constituional acts of the few, will cause great pain for the many..

Republicans / Democrats = Same Shit / Different Stink

Great post OldTroop

myit