Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 3/7/2006 8:05:24 AM EST
Guys, read this post from an Arsenal, INC employee. Arsenal AK's with free floating firing pins are not safe to fire with boxer primed ammo. Only Berdan primed ammo is kosher. To rectify this, Arsenal was claiming to move to spring loaded firing pins. However, internet forum members report that Arsenal has NOT started using spring loaded pins except for a small handful of limited edition rifles. Does anybody have any info on this? How is Arsenal fixing the issue?


Posted by: Arsenal-DPC Jul 16 2003, 02:57 PM ARSENAL INC. of NEVADA TECHNICAL ADVICES

Subject: About the SPRING LOADED FIRING PIN (SLFP) system to be incorporated in all new manufacture Arsenal Inc rifles.
Q: So what is the big deal with this spring loaded firing pin? My AK works just fine with the standard floating style firing pin.
A: Actually, it’s all about the ammunition. 99.9% of the ammo fired from AK’s worldwide utilizes a Berdan type primer for ignition. The reason the Berdan priming system has such widespread use is it’s inherent safety and stability. The Berdan priming system is significantly different from the Boxer style primer, popular in the US, in both construction and design. A discourse on the differences would be lengthy, technical and boring so I won’t delve into that question here. Just take my word for it. If it wasn’t important to introduce this technical innovation of the SLFP, we sure as hell wouldn’t be going through the major R&D and manufacturing expense to create it and incorporate it in our current manufacture products.What this really is about is the future. We build our guns to last. Not for a year or two, or ten years or even fifty years. We are building what we consider to be legacy rifles that will stand the test of time, remain serviceable and current, and be handed down generation to generation. Think of granddaddy’s Parker Shotgun or great great granddaddy’s Sharps Rifle that has been handed down for generations. That is what we are shooting for, and why we constantly look towards the future in our manufacturing plans. This isn’t particularly altruistic, it’s just good business. Well, actually, it’s a little more than good business. To tell the truth, we are gun nuts, just like you and we really enjoy this stuff. The concept of heritage is significantly bolstered by our Arsenal of Bulgaria partners who bring a stellar history of quality reaching back to 1874, yet welcome the innovations we have introduced. Bottom line, we all just want to produce something to be proud of. Profitability is a happy side effect. With these points in mind, we can get down to the crux of the matter, just as it applies to us here in the United States. As mentioned above, in the current state of affairs 99.9% of the ammo fired through AK type rifles is Berdan primed and is currently in plentiful supply. There is, by way of comparison, a very small amount of US manufactured and reload ammunition in circulation which is “Boxer” primed. So, for the moment, the most significant benefit of this SLFP improvement affects a very small percentage of AK type owners. So, why bother?We are all aware of the constant chipping away of our 2nd amendment rights, which were earned at great cost to generations of law abiding, patriotic Americans. My feeling is that if you had to carry a gun to defend this country, then at the very least you should be allowed to have one in your house to defend what you work so hard to attain.Holding on to that thought, let’s step into the time machine.As I said, at present, Berdan primed ammo is in ample supply and is pretty much the standard fodder for AK based rifles in the US. For the moment, there’s tons of it. Move ahead five years or so. Who’s to say that under some pretext or another, or so some politician can get reelected, a bill or regulation or ruling or any other legal shenanigan causes the banning of imported ammo. After a few years the Berdan primed ammo dries up or gets so expensive that your only recourse is to use US manufactured Boxer primed ammo or Boxer primed reloads. Now you have a problem.The current incarnation of the AK family is designed to fire Berdan primed ammo.This issue is specific to the United States. Should the imported Berdan supply dry up in the US and we are limited to Boxer primed ammo, the whole rest of the world will happily carry on without missing a beat. There will still be loads of Berdan primed, all over the world, maybe just not here.To safely fire Boxer primed ammo from an AK, you’ll need a SLFP. It’s that simple.Looking ahead to this, Arsenal Inc will be producing all new manufacture rifles with the new design SLFP technology as our existing stock and current production are depleted.Alexander WolfeArsenal Inc. - DPC Posted by: DonK Jul 16 2003, 05:17 PM So can we upgrade our existing SAM7s to the new spec at reasonable cost ? Posted by: Ugh! Jul 17 2003, 04:49 AM Swapping bolts can affect headspace. If you swap bolts make sure you check the headspace. Posted by: DonK Jul 17 2003, 05:38 PM Sounds like it could get expensive. Cheaper just to make sure your rifle is pointed in a safe direction - good practice anyway

Posted by: Fallschirmjäger Dec 1 2003, 02:36 PM OK, so the question remains; If I bought a SA M-7 without the SLFP, and since the issue of longevity is being bounced around, what is Arsenal doing for it's customers who already have the rifles? Posted by: downsouthmoe Dec 6 2003, 09:26 AM So what's stopping U.S. companies from producing Berdan primed ammo? If the depand sharply rises suddenly because of an importation ban, wouldn't it be a good economical decision for U.S. manufacturers to begin producing (more) Berdan primed ammo?How does the SLFP affect the overall reliability of the AK?Would the SLFP be more prone to wearing out after extended use?What amount of work would it require to retrofit existing AK weapons with an SLFP?

Posted by: GlennAK Mar 5 2006, 09:56 PM
I don't know when Arsenal started using spring-loaded firing pins, but the way you can tell if your firing pin is spring loaded, is to press on the back of the firing pin. If there is spring tension as you push it, and it always returns to its original position, then you have a spring-loaded firing pin. If it stays pushed in and there is no spring tension when you push on it, then you have a floating firing pin. Most AKs, including all your parts kits, will have the floating firing pin.


Posted by: Zane Zackerly Mar 6 2006, 11:07 AM
It seems the spring-loaded firing pins were installed on a few of the limited edition rifles and not much else.
Most "standard production" rifles I've seen have the free-floated firing pin.
It seems the SLFP is a casualty of the company's wartime contracts.

Posted by: 100 Round Drum Mar 6 2006, 06:48 PM
I just checked my SLR95 and Bakelite Classic and neither one have the SLFP. Not a big deal to me since I only shoot hard primered military ammo.

Posted by: Ligament Mar 6 2006, 08:38 PM
can you buy the spring loaded firing pin elsewhere and install it? where to buy? thanks.

Posted by: GlennAK Mar 6 2006, 10:21 PM
I don't think it would be cost effective to buy a SLFP, if as Zane put it, was only made in limited quantities. Good luck finding one!
Take 100 Round Drum's advice and shoot only Military ammo. Spend the money on something else, like more ammo!
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:24:54 AM EST
this would not concern me
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:27:15 AM EST
From the comments, I wonder if my "limited" SFC has the SLFP? I'll have to check.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:53:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By TacticalOpsAR:
this would not concern me

or me....
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:59:23 AM EST
The AK rifle isn't the only rifle to have a floating firing pin. AR15/M16, M1/M14 and others. These rifles haven't had any problems when using boxer primed ammo. So what makes the AK so different?

I know that some floating pin shooters have moved to using the mil-spec boxer primers for their reloads but I haven't had a problem using the standard primers in any of my rilfes.

Is Arsenal just covering all the bases for retail sales?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:02:42 PM EST
Just checked my rifles:

SA-M7 Carbine - Free floating firing pin

SA-M5s - Spring loaded firing pin

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:09:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:11:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 12:19:26 PM EST by FALARAK]
This sounds like a load of BS to me. Who cares if it is boxer or berdan? The difference should be the hardness of the primer cup, not where the anvil is or how many flash holes are present?

They probably got some reports of some slamfires on soft primed US commercial primers.... you can make military hard primers in boxer.

I love this part:

A discourse on the differences would be lengthy, technical and boring so I won’t delve into that question here. Just take my word for it.

I always love it when people wont explain their actions, and just want you to take their wrod for it.

And I dont think Berdan's adoption had anything to do with "inherent safety and stability" It was abous cost and ease of manufacturing.


Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:17:45 PM EST
Trust me, I am not going to loose ANY sleep over it. yawn.....yawn....yawn........zzzzzzz.....zzzzzz
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:15:37 PM EST
SA M-5S here = SLFP.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:46:12 PM EST
....SLFP is NOT new..............Years ago, PolyTech AKs came with SLFPs................Just keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction, when chambering a round(for those with sticky firing pins)
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:11:08 PM EST
Follow the four rules, and you won't have any problems.
Top Top