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Posted: 12/20/2003 11:58:08 AM EDT
Whats the split world wide 5.45 vs 7.62x39?
A guy told me that 75% of the AKs issued are 7.62x39.  I thought there maybe more 5.45 than he thinks.

Thanks for your help guys.    
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 12:06:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 12:08:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 12:22:02 PM EDT
Thanks much!  Whats the better combat rd, 5.45 or 7.62?
I love the M193, and would bet on that any day, however we are talking AKs and 5.45 vs 7.62.
                                     
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 1:08:00 PM EDT
Which do you think the Russians perfer?

Link Posted: 12/20/2003 1:18:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 1:35:20 PM EDT
Campy (or anybody else in the 'know'), did Romania make their own AK74 mags?  I've never seen any for sale anywhere.  Tons of the E German bakelite & Bulgarian polymer, some Soviet bakelite & Polish steel & poly but no Romanian mags at all.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 2:14:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoldtopDude:
Thanks much!  Whats the better combat rd, 5.45 or 7.62?
I love the M193, and would bet on that any day, however we are talking AKs and 5.45 vs 7.62.
                                     



IMO I like the 5.45 the best. Low recoil,and its twice as accurate, and can make more hits further out.To me its a very good improvement over the 7.62x39 round.WarDawg
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 2:20:27 PM EDT
As far as a military round, i think the 545 has the upper hand because it has the air pocket and 762 is only fmj which is really only meant to wound.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 6:16:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RiffRandall:
Campy (or anybody else in the 'know'), did Romania make their own AK74 mags?  I've never seen any for sale anywhere.  Tons of the E German bakelite & Bulgarian polymer, some Soviet bakelite & Polish steel & poly but no Romanian mags at all.



Romania produced steel 5.45x39 mags but the supply that came into the U.S. was very small and dried up rather quickly. I didn't buy any as I thought the price was too high and ended up spending even more dough for a Polish Tantal AK74 steel mag. It does give the rifle a very different look compared the the E.German bakelite and Bulgarian polymer mags, well worth the investment!
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 6:22:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoldtopDude:
Thanks much!  Whats the better combat rd, 5.45 or 7.62?
I love the M193, and would bet on that any day, however we are talking AKs and 5.45 vs 7.62.
                                     



5.45 does the same thing as the 5.56 just a bit differently. Delivers actual energy to the body darned well, and 500 rnds 7.62 and 750 rnds 5.45 both weigh about 18.5 lbs so which do you want to take into the field?
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:03:05 PM EDT
Very cool.  Does the 5.45 frag like the M193?  
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 6:51:43 AM EDT
No, it tumbles earlier and is longer but does not fragment.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 6:54:58 AM EDT
No, but it does tumble hard upon entry at virtually any velocity/range instead of the 2700fps minimum for the 5.56 to frag. 1/4" air pocket in front creates lots of motion on impact. And the skinny shape keeps it's velocity better over long ranges, and offers nice sectional density for penetration to offset it's lower initial muzzle velocity compared to 5.56.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:43:35 AM EDT
Thats pretty wild.  It's a better round than I thought, however I'd still prefer M193 if I had the option.
                                         
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 6:56:08 PM EDT
Then get a 5.56 ak... ;)
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:25:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:56:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 4:57:42 AM EDT by StariVojnik]
The 5.45 is a great bullet when there aren't any obstructions in its path and those bullets tend to tumble in all sort of directions when they hit branches and other foliage.  I still prefer the 7.62 cartridge.  
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 1:35:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Romania make their own AK74 mags? I've never seen any for sale anywhere.

yes. they are a ribbed, steel magazine. interordnance put them on sale at $18 each. they sold out fast.



Story of my life...day late & a $ short.



5.45 is one scary round. once you see what it can do, you will be as cautious as i am when shooting it.


After reading about the 5.45 ('80s in SOF magazine & after the first 5.45 semi sporters started coming in) I decided that if I ever bought an AK my first choice would be 5.45x39.  Now that I've got one I want a 7.62x39 AK also..  ::arfcom:: "..get both!" ::arfcom::
It does kinda get old explaining the 5.45x39 to the non-hardcore gunnut people..."AK74??? don't you mean 47???".  When I first showed my dad the 5.45x39 he was amazed how icepick like the bullet was.  
Nothing new for me though, owning pistols in 7.62x25 & 7.62x38R means I'm used to oddball cartridges that the general shooting public is unaware of.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:31:22 PM EDT
RiffRandal, i'm familiar with the 7.62 x 25 TOK round seeing as how i own a cz52 (looking to buy more, as a matter of fact turned one down today), but am completely unfamiliar with the 7.62 X 38R, in fact, i'm not sure i have ever heard of it until i read your post.  would you please enlighten me as to what pistols chamber this round, availability, ballistics, prices, etc. (including any links you may have). you've got my curiosity aroused. the 7.62 x 25 is a fairly nasty little round; this must be one hell of a wicked round.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:55:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2003 5:06:11 PM EDT by RiffRandall]
7.62x38R (or 7.62x39R, I've seen it both ways) is the funky cartridge for the 7 shot M1895 Nagant gas-seal revolver the Russians used before the Tokarev.  The bullet is seated below the case neck with the brass crimped slightly over it, making the cartridge look like a blank.  The cylinder cams forward to make a 100% gas seal, getting more velocity (and makes the Nagant about the only revolver able to use a suppressor).  Ballistics still aren't real impressive...about like a .32 H&R Mag.  The 7.62x25 Tokarev has about half again the muzzle velocity ~1500fps to the 7.62x38R ~1000fps.

www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/4064/PersCollection/M1895page.html


Prices for the gun are real fair, but the ammo is expensive.  Fiocchi loads it but supply is iffy sometimes.  .32-20 brass can be used but the rims might need some trimming.  .32 S&W Long & .32 H&R Mag can be used but the cases swell upon firing .  An aftermarket cylinder is available that converts the M1895 to .32acp.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:02:52 PM EDT
okay, i got it.  i've always heard expressed as a "7.62 nagant", not a "7.62 x 38".
sorry for my boneheadedness; hey i learn something new everyday.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:00:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 6:01:25 PM EDT by RiffRandall]
I've learned not to ask the gunstore clerk if they have any "7.62 Nagant" because either they get a blank look on their face, hand you a box of 7.62x54R or 7.62x39 rifle ammo or ask if you mean 7.62 NATO .  Same thing for 9x23 Largo...if I wanted 9x23 Winchester I'd have said 9x23Winchester.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 7:00:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 7:06:27 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
No, it tumbles earlier and is longer but does not fragment.







Link Posted: 12/25/2003 7:15:31 PM EDT
So much great info!      
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