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Posted: 6/12/2003 1:18:39 PM EDT
I've said several times I don't see a need to harden these receivers because of my own test. I spoke to Bob Landies ( the owner of O.O.W.) yesterday. He does not advise to have these things heat treated. If you have any questions give him a call, 440-285-3481. He is very knowledgeable on anything firearms related and a pleasure to talk to. If they needed it, they would have done it.

Troy Sellars
IN RANGE inc.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 4:48:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 5:15:31 PM EDT
There's more to it than that. Give him a call. I formed the same opnion he has before he told me. I'm not sure they will warranty any heat treated receivers if they split or crack. Also if not done properly it will anneal the spots already hardened.
Troy
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:03:57 PM EDT
Y'all:

It's my understanding that the Century International Arms guns are not well put together, and I wonder if their AK47/SAR-1 guns have receivers that will take the test of time after several thousand rounds.

Can anyone on these boards comment reliably on the receivers used by Century and whether they are good or not? Thanks to all who reply.

Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:11:37 PM EDT
Century only changes the compliance parts like the p-grip and piston and FCG IIRC.

They are barreled and pressed and riveted etc in Romania.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:18:11 PM EDT
So what kind of process are some of the builders using to heat treat the receivers? There's a fine line with heat treating, between too soft or too brittle. I definitely don't want a warped receiver, and I'm assuming the builders have come up with a way get the proper (commie) hardness without warpage.

I understand C-Bob's point, and I agree. Those guys don't spend money on processes that aren't needed. I don't know crap about AK receivers, other than what I've been reading here, so when OOW claims that everything is good, I'm a bit confused. I'm sure they could come up with some sort of a successful heat treating procedure if they thought it was worthwhile. BTW, I already asked my builder to use the treated receiver on my -74 build (IndyArms), so hopefully I made the right decision.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:42:54 PM EDT
For some reason I feel this may be another very long thread on heat treating the OOW receiver.

If it were me I would build my kit on a heat treated receiver as well, but that is just my gut feeling. I am going to sit on my 74 kit a while longer to see if it will actually matter.

In the mean time I am happy and content with my new AK-74 built on the FEG receiver by Ohio Rapid Fire.

This heat treating controversy is enough to drive one nuts.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 1:40:31 AM EDT
I think I would prefer to have mine heat-treated, because I like my things overbuilt/heavy-duty. I am waiting until a consensus is met though.

If his debate keeps on long enough, I might just start sending money to The Firing Line and build on milled recceivers.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 1:51:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 1:52:18 AM EDT by WildWes]

Originally Posted By Mbsk01:
If his debate keeps on long enough, I might just start sending money to The Firing Line and build on milled recceivers.



Ain't that the truth!

Damn, first it was avoid Hexxe, now heat treat the OOW. Of course Hexxe says everything is good, then OOW says everything is good. Builders disagree...

Screw it, for $60 I think I'll take my chances with a rifle my grandchildren won't be allowed to own--much less enjoy.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 3:04:53 AM EDT
I've built on both O.O.W. receivers and NEVER had any problems. I did heat treat the sear hole. I've never had any problems with the Hexxe receiver either, as long as the rails are straight. I also prefer the Bulgarian milled receiver. To each their own. Really, call Bob if you have any questions. He's a wealth of knowledge on this stuff.

Troy Sellars
IN RANGE inc.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 3:14:25 AM EDT
Troy, in the interest of saving a bit of time, can you elaborate to us simpletons why you advise against heat-treating?

A simple answer is fine. Is it that it's not worth the time/money? or does it screw up the rec? or is it some sort of trade secret?

I can appreciate you recommending that we call Bob at OOW, but it seems like it would be a waste of his time for 15-30 of us to call him individually.

TIA
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 3:50:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 4:00:16 AM EDT by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 3:55:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
mb, you bring up an excellent point in mentioning the milled receivers.




Can I get this posted in the form of an announcement???
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 6:24:47 AM EDT
I can tell you this, Global's new receiver will be heat treated. We just have to wait for it to come out.

(ya, I know, 2 more weeks!)


Brick
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 1:10:03 AM EDT
Heat treating is a difficult thing to do at home. I experianced my first heat treat disaster on a Hesse receiver this week. While installing the trigger guard rivets, the receiver split. It broke again on the lower right side when the buttstock was pushed in. It was not excessivly tight. Inspection also showed one of the upper rails was cracked. The whole thing was as brittle as glass. I've seen about 12 Hesse guns built. This was the first process based failure.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:31:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:52:00 AM EDT
Put me on record as stating that the heat-treating issue does NOT concern me one bit. I have a Bulgarian AK-74 built on an OOW receiver by In Range and trust Troy when he says that it's okay. Heck, I'm sure that Troy can attest to thousands of rounds from full-auto AK variants with no indications of wear caused by the lack of heat treating. Krinkfreak is pretty "rough" on his rifles as well, and I've yet to see a complaint from him. During the last In Range AK-74 production run, the majority of us used OOW receivers. Granted, mine will see a lot less use than the rifles some of you own, but I feel that this is all being blown out of proportion a little. Aren't ALL of the critical areas (rails and pin holes) heat treated to begin with? If we are talking about the entire receiver needing to be heat treated, I must ask why. At the rate I fire mine (60 rounds total in the couple of months I have owned it), it will last an eternity.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:43:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:05:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 4:35:23 PM EDT by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:08:40 PM EDT
Campy is right. six of one, half dozen of another. If you want it hardened do so. If not, It won't matter.

Troy Sellars
IN RANGE inc.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:22:35 PM EDT
In Inrange I trust...
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:57:28 AM EDT
Campybob, thanks for the link. I've seen that footage before and, in fact, had it saved on my hard drive. I'm just saying that I myself am not too concerned with the whole heat-treating issue. I do not own a full-auto AK, nor do I bumpfire mine. The average shooter who takes slow, decisive shots should not have problems arise from "minimal" heat treating of OOW receivers. Now if mine ends up wearing under the tender treatment it receives, I will gladly admit that my opinion was in error.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 8:26:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 8:26:41 AM EDT by _disconnector_]
A better question is, why NOT have it done for only 25-35 bucks and an extra two week wait? Kind of reminds me of Pascals Wager concerning religious belief - if you DO believe in God and are wrong, you lose nothing. If you DON'T believe and are wrong, you lose everything.

Anyhow, I sent my OOW to Chris @ AKUSA for him to apply his tender minstrations and harden my receiver. What's funny is that OOW said that it couldn't be done . . . just sounds like pure cost-cutting to me.

BTW, when Global Trades finishes its AKM style receivers (possibly next month!), the whole point will become moot. If it is half the receiver that Jimmy states it is, all of our prayers will be answered. I hope that all of the other rec. manufacturers are aware of this and attempt to bring their product into compliance with their purchasers wishes.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:15:25 AM EDT
Does it make a difference if one only fires in semi-auto, and slowly, for that matter? The original receivers are heat-treated, but then they are fired full auto. My range doesn't allow bump-firing nor fast firing. Would that make a difference?

I put a buffer in my InRange-built '74 (they're sold at Tapco) -- would that help minimize the stress on the receiver?

I suspect my '74 will be banned and confiscated by scary agents of the government long before my unheat treated receiver falls apart.

Just wondering...
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:33:36 AM EDT
Interestingly, I do not remember the B-West receivers, which were not heat treated, failing around the trunion rivets. They did so about the trigger and hammer pin holes. Correct me if I am wrong, of course.

Now, once again:

Can anyone tell me what the commies do to heat treat their receivers???? ?? ??? ?????
As I've said, it cannot be some big secret. Hell, someone around here, or one of the manufacturers in the US must know. It would really be good to know this before everyone jumps on the bandwagon and goes off half-cocked, potentially damaging their receiver. Just because it sounds good don't mean it is!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:11:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 6:12:13 PM EDT by _disconnector_]
For my earlier rant on this topic, see

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=56007

:)
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:54:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zougou:
Does it make a difference if one only fires in semi-auto, and slowly, for that matter?



Basically what I meant was that it will take a lot of rounds for the rivet holes to become eliptical, if they even do. If you don't blow through a bunch of ammo in a short period of time (full-auto or bumpfiring every session), then it will be a long time before you amass enough rounds through the AK to cause damage.

Again, Troy Sellars has built quite a few FULL-AUTO AK variants on OOW receivers and if he says that heat treating makes no difference, then I believe him.
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