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Posted: 8/10/2005 4:53:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 10:13:42 AM EDT by chapperjoe]
I'm a huge 74 fan and I'm thinking of selling some of my AK's to get the Krebs '74... what do we think? (I'd have to lose a chinese 56S, an SAR2, possibly others....)

plusses (IMO):
safety lever by grip
rail system lets me use rail covers which I think are very comfortable
rail system lets me mount a light properly (no more TDI or barrel mounts)
top rail means real optics can go on (probably wouldn't put any there though)
AR sights means I can install a pair of nght sights that I already have
Vltor stock in line with barrel has trillions of spots for batteries, cleaning kits, etc.
A2 flash hider
Polished internals
Well thought out very tight top-cover fit
I have tons of mags and ammo for the 74

minusses (IMO)
What I'd have to sell to get one
The redundant right side traditional safety




Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:59:11 AM EDT
So what will you have to part with to get this beauty? I guess that is the real question.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:04:05 AM EDT
I'd be willing to sell a Norinco 56S in amazing condition and an SAR2 with a Kobra sight

Thatshould raise enough.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:17:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:16:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I'm a huge 74 fan and I'm thinking of selling some of my AK's to get the Krebs '74... what do we think?



I think the gun in the picture isn't a -74...

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:28:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:36:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:00:12 AM EDT
It's got a funny pistol grip on it ... I'd be afraid to shoot it ....
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:04:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 7:04:48 AM EDT by chapperjoe]
that one is a 47, but I couldn't find a 74 pic with the VLTOR option. I am not a huge fan of AR/AK contraptions, but those I've tried have not been built by krebs! I really do need (NEED) a collapsing stock on all my rifles, my LOP preference is really weird. kind of like a little more than entry-stock length but shorter than the Russian AK stock length....

and you should see the grip! (safety lever in teh FAL lever cutout. it's beautiful.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:51:10 AM EDT
Whats the price tag on one of those babys? I read an article on it on whatever magazine, it looked like a nice AK.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:01:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 9:05:03 AM EDT by jnewt]
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:17:39 AM EDT
I wouldn't base my decision on Fortier's recommendations. They are too slanted to the advertisers of the magazines for which he writes. I would look for the recommendations of other shooters and even other writers.

JMHO.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:31:12 AM EDT
Personally, I would part with that Norinco and SAR to get the Krebs. I had (never should have sold it) a KTR-03V in .223 about 3 years ago and it was awesome. Do this day, I don't know why I sold it. Especially since I am trying to replace it right now and can't find one in .223.

Anyway...DO IT!

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:39:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krinkfreak:
I'm not a big fan of hybrid AKs or ARs, and prefer to keep each one as original as possible.

Krebs does some great work. If you like it, buy it.



If it had a side folding stock(like the ACE ones) that was no longer then a standard AK stock, i'd be all over that thing. Something like this stock.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:12:40 AM EDT
Can't stand folding stocks.... they're for war not the range.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:13:21 AM EDT
and on that note... anyone deal with Rguns before?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:18:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Can't stand folding stocks.... they're for war not the range.



Not really, hell the same could be said for a collapsable stock as well. For my uses, an AK with a folding stock fits the bill, for yours obviously not. Thats the beauty of guns, even if it's the same gun it's going to be set up differntly for different pepople.

I have not had dealings with Rguns. I know a couple people who have had bad experiances, and a couple that had good, it's about split. Sorry I can't be of more help on that part of it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:23:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Can't stand folding stocks.... they're for war not the range.



Not really, hell the same could be said for a collapsable stock as well. For my uses, an AK with a folding stock fits the bill, for yours obviously not. Thats the beauty of guns, even if it's the same gun it's going to be set up differntly for different pepople.

I have not had dealings with Rguns. I know a couple people who have had bad experiances, and a couple that had good, it's about split. Sorry I can't be of more help on that part of it.



The folding stock is there to make it smaller in confined spaces, no?
A LOP adjustable stock is useful for much more civilian purposes.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:39:33 AM EDT
You must read SGN.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:58:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 11:01:19 AM EDT by mach6]
Absolutely spot on assessment. Gun rag writers are often cauight on the horns of a dilemma in which they have partially creted. How do you write up anything but a glowing report on a product that advertises or may advertise in your publication? Some publications are more objective than others which take advertizing -- motorcycle mags in particular can be brutal (perhaps overly so) in their reviews. Gun rags on the other hand hardly ever say anything bad about anyone who may throw advertizing dollars at you.

Emptor Caveat.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:09:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Can't stand folding stocks.... they're for war not the range.



Not really, hell the same could be said for a collapsable stock as well. For my uses, an AK with a folding stock fits the bill, for yours obviously not. Thats the beauty of guns, even if it's the same gun it's going to be set up differntly for different pepople.

I have not had dealings with Rguns. I know a couple people who have had bad experiances, and a couple that had good, it's about split. Sorry I can't be of more help on that part of it.



The folding stock is there to make it smaller in confined spaces, no?
A LOP adjustable stock is useful for much more civilian purposes.



Yup thats what it's for, if ya are in confined spaces it's nice, ya know like a car or truck. You can keep it in the cab of the truck all nice and folded up and tucked away. It has it's civilian uses too.

As for collapsable stocks, well hey the libs didn't think we neded them now did they, they thought only military guns needed them and so banned them on our "civilian" guns. All I was trying to say was different folks like different things, don't get all touchy about it shit man pop a valium or something.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:11:33 AM EDT
I don't like Krebs stuff....always seem like franken-rifles, but I'm just tough to please in general.

take care,
Tec
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:15:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tec_Nine:
I don't like Krebs stuff....always seem like franken-rifles, but I'm just tough to please in general.



What, you mean you don't think this is THE HEAT??


Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:21:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shooter521:

Originally Posted By Tec_Nine:
I don't like Krebs stuff....always seem like franken-rifles, but I'm just tough to please in general.



What, you mean you don't think this is THE HEAT??
www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/6-2-05/kcicustomrifle.jpg




That is kinda pushin it!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:23:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
All I was trying to say was different folks like different things, don't get all touchy about it shit man pop a valium or something.



I hear ya, and I meant no ill will.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:01:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 3:02:17 PM EDT by M4Madness]

Originally Posted By El_Abogado:
I wouldn't base my decision on Fortier's recommendations.



+1,000,000

He was all happy about the AK that he got from Solstice Arms, but the rest of us got burned. In fact, I got my letter in the mail last Saturday from the Gooch's bankruptcy saying that his $605 debt to me is officially DISCHARGED.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:59:49 PM EDT
I'm happy that SGN is covering more black rifles, AK's especially, but goddammit, that thing sucks.

I don't understand why someone would want a telestock on an AK - besides the fact that they look like crap, the only reason the AR has a telestock instead of a folding stock is because of the buffer.

The AK doesn't have that issue, hence, a folding stock is much more optimal.

The whole deal with all the rails is another lame option.

I'm sure the gear queers love them, though.

For all the caterwauling about "it's their gun, let them customize it how they want!" - whatever. If these additions were really that optimal or that much of an improvement, I'm sure the Commies or one of the other hundreds or thousands of customers of the AK would have done something like that some time in, oh, the last 50 or so years.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:36:26 PM EDT



I don't understand why someone would want a telestock on an AK - besides the fact that they look like crap, the only reason the AR has a telestock instead of a folding stock is because of the buffer.

The AK doesn't have that issue, hence, a folding stock is much more optimal.




To me, and I'm sure others, a collapsing stock is simply more comfortable. I've had guns without buffers that just felt better with them, and I that's why I put them on my AR's too.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:00:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 6:01:07 PM EDT by Shooter521]

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
To me, and I'm sure others, a collapsing stock is simply more comfortable.



+1

I've said it for years - "folding stocks are great at folding, but suck as stocks." Or more politely, folding stocks are good for storage, collapsibles are good for shooting.

You can get by with just about any kind of stock on a poodle-shooter like an AR or AK-74, but on a gun with some real recoil to it, skeletonized/wire folders are just brutal. My Saiga-12 taught me that!

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:18:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 6:20:53 PM EDT by smoken44]
I had a KTR-03 (7.62) which had all the features of that one minus the handgard rail. Dont mean to piss in your wheaties but here are a few problems with the design. Sorry Fortier.........

1) Gas tube has no vent holes which allows moisture to become trapped and rust up your piston if not wiped off immediately after shooting. Theres a reason why the russians put them there.

2) Gas tube has a dovetail which slides into the trunion which locks it in.....which in turn locks the reciever cover (and sights).......bolt carrior hammers on it while breaking in......presto it aint tight nomore....and neither are your groups........ or the aimpoint you mounted on it.

3) Rail cover (sights) are too high to allow you to use most any russian military scope / mount which would fit on the side rail........bend over and buy a plain cover.....and forget about using those fancy iron sights.

4) Thumb safety seems like a good idea however...........due to the linkage involved the safety has little to none of the spring (what presses and holds it in the notch) pressure like a traditional AK. While fireing the safety has an annoying tendancy to creep up the reciever untill it jams the trigger.
May not be a problem in 5.45 but it was in 7.62.

Keep the 56s.....sell the sar.....buy a sar2 and put a rail on it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:25:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By smoken44:
I had a KTR-03 (7.62) which had all the features of that one minus the handgard rail. Dont mean to piss in your wheaties but here are a few problems with the design. Sorry Fortier.........

1) Gas tube has no vent holes which allows moisture to become trapped and rust up your piston if not wiped off immediately after shooting. Theres a reason why the russians put them there.

2) Gas tube has a dovetail which slides into the trunion which locks it in.....which in turn locks the reciever cover (and sights).......bolt carrior hammers on it while breaking in......presto it aint tight nomore....and neither are your groups........ or the aimpoint you mounted on it.

3) Rail cover (sights) are too high to allow you to use most any russian military scope / mount which would fit on the side rail........bend over and buy a plain cover.....and forget about using those fancy iron sights.

4) Thumb safety seems like a good idea however...........due to the linkage involved the safety has little to none of the spring (what presses and holds it in the notch) pressure like a traditional AK. While fireing the safety has an annoying tendancy to creep up the reciever untill it jams the trigger.
May not be a problem in 5.45 but it was in 7.62.

Keep the 56s.....sell the sar.....buy a sar2 and put a rail on it.



Well hot damn that sucks. My SAR 2 has a rail and it's a great beater but I was tempted by this Krebs gun.... Guess I'll wait a while and see if more people have such experiences.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:06:15 PM EDT
The collapsible stock on the AR was born out of necessity due to the buffer tube. It is, however, functionally superior to any folder I have ever used.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:09:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
The collapsible stock on the AR was born out of necessity due to the buffer tube. It is, however, functionally superior to any folder I have ever used.



It's also superior to any collapser either. I've tried resting my cheek on teh HK collapsing stocks, but it seems like they were dsigned more to completely retract that to be comfortable, same with Daewoo though I've never had the pleasure.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:46:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By smoken44:
I had a KTR-03 (7.62) which had all the features of that one minus the handgard rail. Dont mean to piss in your wheaties but here are a few problems with the design. Sorry Fortier.........



+1
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 8:58:41 PM EDT
I think that the main reason folks go for Krebs' KTR AKs is the improved sights and Galil style safety lever. I own a Krebs KTR-03V (7.62X39 VEPR based) and love it except for its weight. So when the KTR-03S came out I picked one up in 7.62X39 and its a bit lighter. I went with the fixed stock ($150 less) and just slapped a $60 Tapco AR style stock on it. The KTR-03S is now my trunk gun. The heavier KTR has less muzzle rise and may be a bit quicker on follow up shots but less handy in a SHTF situation. I love these guns. The top cover has stayed tight on my KTRs. i don't use the rails on my KTR-03S but its nice to have that option if I feel I need to 'tac it out' at some point. I'm ordering the KTR-035 (5.45) tomorrow and can't wait to see how it shoots. There should be next to no recoil. I say sell your other guns and get the KTR. You'll never look back.

Kevin
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:08:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
and on that note... anyone deal with Rguns before?



I bought a DPMS AP4 .308 from them last month for $975, great service, fast shipping, great people. I was even eying the Kreb's KTR-03S that was in their catalog too. My problem is that I can't justify spending $1000+ on any AK. I just can't. For me, about $600 is the limit for an AK, that means just quality VEPR's and AMD-65's.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 2:55:07 AM EDT
I don't care for the sights and safety to tell you teh truth, All I'm interested in is the long lower handguard rail and vltor stock. I want a professionally installed vltor, not a hack job with an adaptor piece.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:02:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I don't care for the sights and safety to tell you teh truth, All I'm interested in is the long lower handguard rail and vltor stock. I want a professionally installed vltor, not a hack job with an adaptor piece.



Well everything Krebs does is top notch so I'm sure you'll like the way that stock is installed.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:29:55 AM EDT
I dont like the pistol grip onb it for the AR-15 stock they just look funny to me. I'd put a nato length stock on it nad put a Galil pistol grip and sell that voltar stock and make like 200 bucks to buy some mags or a vertical foregrip or something.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 4:16:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Accomplice:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I don't care for the sights and safety to tell you teh truth, All I'm interested in is the long lower handguard rail and vltor stock. I want a professionally installed vltor, not a hack job with an adaptor piece.



Well everything Krebs does is top notch so I'm sure you'll like the way that stock is installed.



I hear you but then look above, and you ahve folks knocking the sight stability and sefety lever ???? Are they lying?
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 4:23:28 AM EDT
I'm not really that big of a fan of that thumb safety. I've never tried one but...its backwards (you'd have to pull the safety back to fire) and i would imagine that it doesn't have that nice of a feel what with the movement also swiping off the traditional safety on the right side.

It might be good for my Saiga 12 ga in that i could use it to lock my bolt back using my notched safety lever, but other than that i would classify it as one of those things that looks like a good idea but is found lacking in execution.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 6:54:29 AM EDT
My son's pride and joy was his Kreb's built AK74M. He loved that AK more then his other three combined and that included his AK-USA AK103, his first AK that was an SAR1 which he put a ton of time and money into getting to look the part and his AK47 underfolder built by In-Range (I think)

Still when it came right down to it, if he had to choose one, it was always the Krebs AK74.

I remember helping him with that one. The waiting was murder while they built it for him

Dan
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 7:13:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 7:14:25 AM EDT by chapperjoe]

Originally Posted By Guppy35:
My son's pride and joy was his Kreb's built AK74M. He loved that AK more then his other three combined and that included his AK-USA AK103, his first AK that was an SAR1 which he put a ton of time and money into getting to look the part and his AK47 underfolder built by In-Range (I think)

Still when it came right down to it, if he had to choose one, it was always the Krebs AK74.

I remember helping him with that one. The waiting was murder while they built it for him

Dan



I've had a krebs 103 and it was golden too. Right now I'm operating two custom builds and I'm selling all my others to fund this krebs project. are they taking custom orders? Cause If so I'd ask them just for the VLTOR and the railed handguard.... probably would cut down on wait time too! If not I might have to drop alot of money on theRguns version.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 7:42:49 AM EDT
I'm starting a poll on this......
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 7:52:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:13:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By Accomplice:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I don't care for the sights and safety to tell you teh truth, All I'm interested in is the long lower handguard rail and vltor stock. I want a professionally installed vltor, not a hack job with an adaptor piece.



Well everything Krebs does is top notch so I'm sure you'll like the way that stock is installed.



I hear you but then look above, and you ahve folks knocking the sight stability and sefety lever ???? Are they lying?



Not lying. Everybody has their own take on things and set of priorities. I'm not sure if the top cover with the rail is too high to use side-mounted optics since I use the top cover rail for my Eotech. That issue doesn't impact me but it might be something for you to consider depending on your optics plans. No complaints here on the safety. I wouldn't buy a full length AK without the Krebs safety and improved iron sights.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:15:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I've had a krebs 103 and it was golden too. Right now I'm operating two custom builds and I'm selling all my others to fund this krebs project. are they taking custom orders? Cause If so I'd ask them just for the VLTOR and the railed handguard.... probably would cut down on wait time too! If not I might have to drop alot of money on theRguns version.



I'm pretty sure that Krebs' web site (under News) says that it is out of the custom building business in order to focus on slightly higher production volume for limited run guns like the KTR series, etc.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:19:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By curt:
I'm not really that big of a fan of that thumb safety. I've never tried one but...its backwards (you'd have to pull the safety back to fire) and i would imagine that it doesn't have that nice of a feel what with the movement also swiping off the traditional safety on the right side.



I read this and thought I recalled that it was a forward click of the thumb safety to fire on my KTRs. Just checked the trunk gun (KTR03S 7.62) and it is forward for fire, click back for safe.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:51:23 AM EDT
and rguns aren't gonna screw me?
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:09:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
and rguns aren't gonna screw me?



I wouldn't count on it my friend.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:26:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By h8mtv:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
and rguns aren't gonna screw me?



I wouldn't count on it my friend.



we're playing with double negatives here.... are they worth dealing with or not?
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