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Posted: 11/2/2009 12:48:56 PM EST
I need a way to be able to easily change lets say four to six 30 round magazines. Spent magazines are dumped. Currently being used are standard vests with magazine pouches, but getting the magazine out of the pouch and into the rifle can take up to 10 seconds in stressful situations, so what I need to find is a solution similar to what Magpul offers for the M16 platform, but obviously for AKs. Of course duct tape and a looped cord is the answer but Id prefer something more professional.

Someone came up with an idea of attaching velcro to the mags and vests and have them just hang but I honestly doubt it would face up to any rigorous testing.

Blade tech offers something called a Tek Lok system, but honestly it doesn't look very reliable.
http://www.blade-tech.com/AK-47-mag-pouch-with-Tek-Lok-attachment-pr-884.html

Does anything like this exist? Anyone have any ideas?

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:40:24 PM EST
10 seconds? I think you just might be slow...

Watch these:

Ak Drill - Ergonomics
How to use an Ak-47 - Technique
Ak-74 Fast Reloading - Speed
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:59:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 1:59:22 PM EST by wesmerc]
TMHonfire101 is pretty fucking crazy but a 2 second reload is pretty good. Vietricer is right around 3 seconds with very good technique. I can do an emergency reload in 3 as well so I think that is a pretty good benchmark to aim for. By the way I found that I can remove the empty mag before going for the fresh one just as fast as the technique where you knock out the old with the new.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:47:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By GreenJelly:
10 seconds? I think you just might be slow...

Watch these:

Ak Drill - Ergonomics
How to use an Ak-47 - Technique
Ak-74 Fast Reloading - Speed


I think the porno music in the first vid is a nice touch.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:58:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 3:01:44 PM EST by wesmerc]
Vietricer got me wanting to make my own albeit abreviated video. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtD725lynkg

attempt at embedding FAIL
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:50:07 PM EST
If you want magpuls for your AK the AR ones fit just fine.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:07:31 PM EST
Take a look at the HSGI Taco Magazine Pouch..
My new Favorite Mag Pouch Period...









Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:15:58 PM EST
What light mount are you running?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:30:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By millsusaf:
What light mount are you running?

Its an old Shotgun Mag Tube Clamp...
I added some split fuel line as a shim between the clamp and the Gas Tube..
Works VERY well...

CXS
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:37:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 4:41:33 PM EST by AzNooB]
Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By millsusaf:
What light mount are you running?

Its an old Shotgun Mag Tube Clamp...
I added some split fuel line as a shim between the clamp and the Gas Tube..
Works VERY well...

CXS


That is genius. Do you know if they sell those separately?

Originally Posted By bolshie:
I need a way to be able to easily change lets say four to six 30 round magazines. Spent magazines are dumped. Currently being used are standard vests with magazine pouches, but getting the magazine out of the pouch and into the rifle can take up to 10 seconds in stressful situations, so what I need to find is a solution similar to what Magpul offers for the M16 platform, but obviously for AKs. Of course duct tape and a looped cord is the answer but Id prefer something more professional.

Someone came up with an idea of attaching velcro to the mags and vests and have them just hang but I honestly doubt it would face up to any rigorous testing.

Blade tech offers something called a Tek Lok system, but honestly it doesn't look very reliable.
http://www.blade-tech.com/AK-47-mag-pouch-with-Tek-Lok-attachment-pr-884.html

Does anything like this exist? Anyone have any ideas?



I think I saw/read reviews about the Blade-Techs being pretty good. However, if I were to get them, I'd want them to orient the bullets rearward since that is how I would grab an AK magazine.

For the price, you might as well get a chest rig if you want to hold 4-6 mags. I bought a used SKD Universal Chest Rig for $52 off of the EE.

I don't see a need for Magpuls on AK mags since there's a lot to grab, unless you have an Eastern European rig or pouches that cover the entire mag.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:42:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By millsusaf:
What light mount are you running?

Its an old Shotgun Mag Tube Clamp...
I added some split fuel line as a shim between the clamp and the Gas Tube..
Works VERY well...

CXS


That is genius. Do you know if they sell those separately?

Originally Posted By bolshie:
I need a way to be able to easily change lets say four to six 30 round magazines. Spent magazines are dumped. Currently being used are standard vests with magazine pouches, but getting the magazine out of the pouch and into the rifle can take up to 10 seconds in stressful situations, so what I need to find is a solution similar to what Magpul offers for the M16 platform, but obviously for AKs. Of course duct tape and a looped cord is the answer but Id prefer something more professional.

Someone came up with an idea of attaching velcro to the mags and vests and have them just hang but I honestly doubt it would face up to any rigorous testing.

Blade tech offers something called a Tek Lok system, but honestly it doesn't look very reliable.
http://www.blade-tech.com/AK-47-mag-pouch-with-Tek-Lok-attachment-pr-884.html

Does anything like this exist? Anyone have any ideas?



I think I saw/read reviews about the Blade-Techs being pretty good. However, if I were to get them, I'd want them to orient the bullets rearward since that is how I would grab an AK magazine.

For the price, you might as well get a chest rig if you want to hold 4-6 mags. I bought a used SKD Universal Chest Rig for $52 off of the EE.

I don't see a need for Magpuls on AK mags since there's a lot to grab, unless you have an Eastern European rig or pouches that cover the entire mag.


I agree with AZnoob. Magpuls dont lend themselves well to a rock in mag since you would probably have to re-position your hand to insert the mag. sounds more like practice or the pouch is the problem.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:56:45 PM EST
why have a carrier when you can tape 4 mags together and dual wield for a total of 8 mags?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:10:56 PM EST
The fancy schmancy gear will only help you so much. Any mag pouch will do more or less. I personally prefer to have a flap over an open top but everyone has their own preferences

The best way to get quicker is to practice the techniques to the point where you can do them with your eyes closed. By the way to get to that point takes a LOT of practice....I wouldn't even begin to speculate the ammount of time because it's a lot and it's very mind numbingly boring. Then once you get to that point go sprint 100yds and try doing it perfectly, or do 25 pushups and then try it. It's easy to do mag changes quickly when you're calm and your heart isn't pounding. Add in a little adrenaline or simulated stress and you'll see just how quick your fine motor skills go to shit and a handbasket

...and that goes for pretty much everything too by the way, not just AK's
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:11:33 PM EST
Watch a pro do it.
From his issue gear too.
Polish commando fast reload
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:36:04 AM EST
I once saw a retired Russian Spetsnaz soldier do a "tactical reload", he kept his strong hand on the PG and pulled a new mag out of it's pouch with his weak hand. He activated the mag release lever with the new mag and in one motion rocked out the old mag with a forward motion and rocked in the new mag when his hand came backward. This was all done in a matter of a couple of milliseconds...needless to say I was most impressed!

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 9:13:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
Watch a pro do it.
From his issue gear too.
Polish commando fast reload



Is the little flip before the change checking for a stoppage?

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 9:51:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dracster:
Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
Watch a pro do it.
From his issue gear too.
Polish commando fast reload



Is the little flip before the change checking for a stoppage?


Correct. A lot of guys do this on their AR platform as well.
Just to check if the Bolt is locked back, a stovepipe, ect.
Reloading will do you no good if you have a double feed..
Stovepipes are usually resolved on the rack when reloading with an AK if you don't check.
Being a lefty I don't have to flip flop my Rifle all over the place to see a stoppage..

CXS
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:16:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dracster:
Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
Watch a pro do it.
From his issue gear too.
Polish commando fast reload



Is the little flip before the change checking for a stoppage?



It's a dance move we all like to do when we reload our AKs.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:28:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Correct. A lot of guys do this on their AR platform as well.
Just to check if the Bolt is locked back, a stovepipe, ect.


So it's a daylight-only technique?


Reloading will do you no good if you have a double feed..


I think reloading is actually the AK doublefeed remedy. At least that's the Suarez solution IIRC. Mag out, 2nd round is released, bolt goes forward and re-catches the rim, mag in, work the bolt.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:16:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Originally Posted By Dracster:
Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
Watch a pro do it.
From his issue gear too.
Polish commando fast reload



Is the little flip before the change checking for a stoppage?



It's a dance move we all like to do when we reload our AKs.


Yet another thing I find out I've been doing wrong.






Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:34:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 2:35:18 PM EST by Custom-X_Sponjah]

Originally Posted By vandal:


Reloading will do you no good if you have a double feed..


I think reloading is actually the AK doublefeed remedy. At least that's the Suarez solution IIRC. Mag out, 2nd round is released, bolt goes forward and re-catches the rim, mag in, work the bolt.

Thank you for pointing that out.
I have found that the mag out does not always release the 2nd round, which it hampers the insertion of a fresh magazine while the round is sticking straight down.
Mag out is part of the remedy I was taught for a double feed, but to work the bolt a few time while no mag is inserted to make sure the stoppage is gone.

CXS
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:47:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 2:50:40 PM EST by CopM4]



2 AK47's with mags/ammo in Africa ~$125.00
1 Roll of tape to tape mags together ~$1.95
1 set of swimmers goggles ~$1.95
1 Tourist beach towel ~$ Free

Not aware that your fly is down while trying to act cool to world press photogs ~$ Priceless


Link Posted: 11/3/2009 4:30:42 PM EST
Good data point. I've never had a doublefeed with an AK but I have with other guns and was taught the clearing process as you describe: lock back (depending on the system) then mag out, rack/flip rack/flip rack/flip, reload. Suarez's way is supposed to be a shortcut –– ie if an AK goes Click instead of Bang, unload/reload will in all probability fix the problem, be it out-of-ammo or double feed. I like the simplicity of that which eliminates time-consuming diagnosis and branching to speed OODA loop processing. Of course the correct answer may be "transition." But sticking with the idea that you need the long gun up in a hurry...

To what do you attribute your having enough experience with AK double-feeds to discover different flavors? Are you setting up the double feeds, or are they occurring "naturally?"

Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By vandal:


Reloading will do you no good if you have a double feed..


I think reloading is actually the AK doublefeed remedy. At least that's the Suarez solution IIRC. Mag out, 2nd round is released, bolt goes forward and re-catches the rim, mag in, work the bolt.

Thank you for pointing that out.
I have found that the mag out does not always release the 2nd round, which it hampers the insertion of a fresh magazine while the round is sticking straight down.
Mag out is part of the remedy I was taught for a double feed, but to work the bolt a few time while no mag is inserted to make sure the stoppage is gone.

CXS


Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:34:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 6:35:39 PM EST by Custom-X_Sponjah]

Originally Posted By vandal:
Good data point. I've never had a doublefeed with an AK but I have with other guns and was taught the clearing process as you describe: lock back (depending on the system) then mag out, rack/flip rack/flip rack/flip, reload. Suarez's way is supposed to be a shortcut –– ie if an AK goes Click instead of Bang, unload/reload will in all probability fix the problem, be it out-of-ammo or double feed. I like the simplicity of that which eliminates time-consuming diagnosis and branching to speed OODA loop processing. Of course the correct answer may be "transition." But sticking with the idea that you need the long gun up in a hurry...

To what do you attribute your having enough experience with AK double-feeds to discover different flavors? Are you setting up the double feeds, or are they occurring "naturally?"

Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By vandal:


Reloading will do you no good if you have a double feed..


I think reloading is actually the AK doublefeed remedy. At least that's the Suarez solution IIRC. Mag out, 2nd round is released, bolt goes forward and re-catches the rim, mag in, work the bolt.

Thank you for pointing that out.
I have found that the mag out does not always release the 2nd round, which it hampers the insertion of a fresh magazine while the round is sticking straight down.
Mag out is part of the remedy I was taught for a double feed, but to work the bolt a few time while no mag is inserted to make sure the stoppage is gone.

CXS


I have never experienced a natural double feed with my AK.
I have set up numerous.
Actually the only Malfunction I have had with my AK was with a squib round of Wolf, which thank god only traveled a 1/2"..
I tried to quick rack and get back to the fight, no/go.. Got yelled at, so I transitioned...
I performed all the necessary steps to clear any malfunction when I was done with the drill, except the round wouldn't seat all the way...
Had to beat it out with the Cleaning Rod and Magazine..

Here is the bullet after we beat it out..












Here's the video of the incident...


Could have been a lot worse...

CXS
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 7:27:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By vandal:
Good data point. I've never had a doublefeed with an AK but I have with other guns and was taught the clearing process as you describe: lock back (depending on the system) then mag out, rack/flip rack/flip rack/flip, reload. Suarez's way is supposed to be a shortcut –– ie if an AK goes Click instead of Bang, unload/reload will in all probability fix the problem, be it out-of-ammo or double feed. I like the simplicity of that which eliminates time-consuming diagnosis and branching to speed OODA loop processing. Of course the correct answer may be "transition." But sticking with the idea that you need the long gun up in a hurry...

To what do you attribute your having enough experience with AK double-feeds to discover different flavors? Are you setting up the double feeds, or are they occurring "naturally?"

Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By vandal:


Reloading will do you no good if you have a double feed..


I think reloading is actually the AK doublefeed remedy. At least that's the Suarez solution IIRC. Mag out, 2nd round is released, bolt goes forward and re-catches the rim, mag in, work the bolt.

Thank you for pointing that out.
I have found that the mag out does not always release the 2nd round, which it hampers the insertion of a fresh magazine while the round is sticking straight down.
Mag out is part of the remedy I was taught for a double feed, but to work the bolt a few time while no mag is inserted to make sure the stoppage is gone.

CXS


I have never experienced a natural double feed with my AK.
I have set up numerous.
Actually the only Malfunction I have had with my AK was with a squib round of Wolf, which thank god only traveled a 1/2"..
I tried to quick rack and get back to the fight, no/go.. Got yelled at, so I transitioned...
I performed all the necessary steps to clear any malfunction when I was done with the drill, except the round wouldn't seat all the way...
Had to beat it out with the Cleaning Rod and Magazine..

Here is the bullet after we beat it out..

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070076.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070077.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070078.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070079.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070080.jpg


Here's the video of the incident...
<a href="http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/DefConNC/?action=view¤t=MVI_0189.flv" target="_blank">http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/DefConNC/th_MVI_0189.jpg</a>

Could have been a lot worse...

CXS


It's a good thing that the bullet didn't make it half way down the barrel.

My biggest fear is a gun doing a kaboom on me.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:09:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By AzNooB:
Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By vandal:
Good data point. I've never had a doublefeed with an AK but I have with other guns and was taught the clearing process as you describe: lock back (depending on the system) then mag out, rack/flip rack/flip rack/flip, reload. Suarez's way is supposed to be a shortcut –– ie if an AK goes Click instead of Bang, unload/reload will in all probability fix the problem, be it out-of-ammo or double feed. I like the simplicity of that which eliminates time-consuming diagnosis and branching to speed OODA loop processing. Of course the correct answer may be "transition." But sticking with the idea that you need the long gun up in a hurry...

To what do you attribute your having enough experience with AK double-feeds to discover different flavors? Are you setting up the double feeds, or are they occurring "naturally?"

Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By vandal:


Reloading will do you no good if you have a double feed..


I think reloading is actually the AK doublefeed remedy. At least that's the Suarez solution IIRC. Mag out, 2nd round is released, bolt goes forward and re-catches the rim, mag in, work the bolt.

Thank you for pointing that out.
I have found that the mag out does not always release the 2nd round, which it hampers the insertion of a fresh magazine while the round is sticking straight down.
Mag out is part of the remedy I was taught for a double feed, but to work the bolt a few time while no mag is inserted to make sure the stoppage is gone.

CXS


I have never experienced a natural double feed with my AK.
I have set up numerous.
Actually the only Malfunction I have had with my AK was with a squib round of Wolf, which thank god only traveled a 1/2"..
I tried to quick rack and get back to the fight, no/go.. Got yelled at, so I transitioned...
I performed all the necessary steps to clear any malfunction when I was done with the drill, except the round wouldn't seat all the way...
Had to beat it out with the Cleaning Rod and Magazine..

Here is the bullet after we beat it out..

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070076.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070077.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070078.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070079.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/P9070080.jpg


Here's the video of the incident...
<a href="http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/DefConNC/?action=view¤t=MVI_0189.flv" target="_blank">http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/DefConNC/th_MVI_0189.jpg</a>

Could have been a lot worse...

CXS


It's a good thing that the bullet didn't make it half way down the barrel.

My biggest fear is a gun doing a kaboom on me.


Yup, they aren't fun! It's almost impossible to avoid of you are doing hammers or DTs, and the first round is a squib.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:58:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By yumbeef:
why have a carrier when you can tape 4 mags together and dual wield for a total of 8 mags?
http://www.fmft.net/African%20infantryman%20of%20the%20year%20AK%­2047%20African%20militias.jpg


ex-why-zee.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:13:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By millsusaf:
What light mount are you running?

Its an old Shotgun Mag Tube Clamp...
I added some split fuel line as a shim between the clamp and the Gas Tube..
Works VERY well...

CXS


Any issues with heat?

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:46:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 5:48:33 PM EST by Custom-X_Sponjah]

Originally Posted By millsusaf:
Originally Posted By Custom-X_Sponjah:

Originally Posted By millsusaf:
What light mount are you running?

Its an old Shotgun Mag Tube Clamp...
I added some split fuel line as a shim between the clamp and the Gas Tube..
Works VERY well...

CXS


Any issues with heat?

None so far..
Need to use it in a high round count rifle class..
Or next Robin Sage Exercise I'll try to burn through 150+ blanks real quick on an assault or ambush.

CXS
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