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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/10/2005 7:06:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 7:11:20 PM EDT by 2FALable]
OK so now I fully understand why everyone hates TAPCO's long rivets.

They are ugly as sin! You can make it better with a bench grinder and reducing the tumb tack sized heads, but now I've got another question.

Are they shorter than other long rivets? Like the Global Trades ones?

Or are they skinnier? or what.

I used them on my AMD build and they'll work for now but I'm going to have to change them out. They didn't make much of a head. I'm guessing either there was room for them to bow in the AMD trunnion or they are shorter or something.

Does anyone know for sure?
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 7:23:00 PM EDT
they are thiner
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 7:27:14 PM EDT
That explains the lack of compressed head on the flattened side then, I'd bet if I pull them out the rivets will be bowed.

The small rivets seem fine, but the long ones blow chunks.
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 8:19:13 PM EDT
Don't even bother with any of the Tapco rivets. There are a bunch of guys around on other boards right now that are selling rivets that aren't Tapco.
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 8:22:40 PM EDT
Happen to have a lazy man's link for me?
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 11:03:06 PM EDT
or you could buy 3/16" x 1 1/2" rivets, and drill out the rear trunion a hair to make em fit..
Link Posted: 6/11/2005 7:49:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2FALable:
Happen to have a lazy man's link for me?



Classified link
Link Posted: 6/12/2005 3:08:58 PM EDT
I cannot believe that tapco hasn't corrected those long rivets by now! They aren't even close to fitting properly. And i'm sure they,ve gotten plenty of feedback about them.

I'd like to here from anyone that was able to make those rivets work in a rear trunnion block. And even then i'd have to see it in person to believe it!

Sorry for the rant but I wasted my money and time on those rivets about a year ago and its a damn shame they havn't stopped selling them.
Link Posted: 6/12/2005 7:43:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKaTom:
I cannot believe that tapco hasn't corrected those long rivets by now! They aren't even close to fitting properly. And i'm sure they,ve gotten plenty of feedback about them.

I'd like to here from anyone that was able to make those rivets work in a rear trunnion block. And even then i'd have to see it in person to believe it!

Sorry for the rant but I wasted my money and time on those rivets about a year ago and its a damn shame they havn't stopped selling them.



They havnt stopped selling them because they still have them in stock. Plus people keep buyung them
Link Posted: 6/12/2005 9:38:52 PM EDT
While I don't really blame Scott for it... I was a bit surprised to get these and discover that he was selling Tapco rivets. I absolutely don't have anything bad to say about dpharms or Scott, but I was shocked he was selling TAPCO rivets. Scott's awesome to do business with but he needs to quit selling these rivets...

To answer the last question, you can get them to work by shimming them, either with metal or another filler like JB weld before you crush them, but it isn't worth it... If you have some use the short rivets and find some other long rivets... Don't screw your build over two crappy a$$ rivets in the rear.


Besides if you do some research using these rivets may not be safe and could be a screw in the rear rather than a rivet.

Link Posted: 6/13/2005 6:23:56 AM EDT
Well, I was going to suggest going over to Goonsnet, where a guy had a group-buy on sets of rivets
going. But when I went to get the link, I see that he has sold them all. Packets of those are probably
what are up for sale on Gunco, as there were a lot of people who got in on that buy, myself included.

Several good deals over on Gunco's classified section, so you should be able to pick up a few sets
for a good price. If not, IM me in a few days, as I got in on the tail-end of the group buy, and will
probably getting rid of a few sets.

The package was for 30 AK's worth of rivets. Mrs. Tanker would nuke me from orbit, for certain!
Link Posted: 6/14/2005 5:45:56 AM EDT
Check EE i have some there for sale same great quality
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 7:21:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2005 4:57:56 AM EDT by 2FALable]
OK so I just wanted to add a pic to show/explain the failure potential of the TAPCO long rivet.



That rivet was pulled from this AMD...



So let's look at the problems:

#1 The rivets are skinnier than they should be, now since it was used on an AMD build this problem is compounded vs. some of the other variants. Note the curvy deformation of the rivet.

This is caused by the skinny rivet, it doesn't snug up to the inside of the trunion hole as it's compressed without first bowing and snaking, then the rivet will compress into a head resulting in a very small head formation on the side of the receiver.

#2 The are really VERY soft. This rivet was knocked back out with exactly two hits from a punch and a normal claw hammer. Which is a testament to the softness of the rivet and the unacceptable size of the formed head. It should be much harder to knock the rivet back through the receiver without grinding the head down.

#3 You can see in the pic where do to some combination of factors the compressed end of the rivet as moved off center of the rivet and actually is showing some signs of sheering. (There were exactly 80 rounds put through this weapon with these rivets in place)

I'm not a genius, nor am I a metals expert, but I've got a lot of experience with weapons, have built a few AK's now, and love them all. IMHO these rivets are dangerous... evil and dangerous. I fully agree with one of the earlier posts that eventually these rivets will get someone hurt.

After knocking these rivets out they've been replaced with proper Bulgarian mil-spec rivets.

Please don't compromise your builds by using these things.

Hope it helps to see a visual.

-2FAL
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:26:02 PM EDT
2FAL, thanks for posting the picture of the removed rivet. You are right, they really suck!
I only used them one time and they are about to come out of the AMD I used them on - my first one!
The only thing I can see using one of those rivets for is as a temporary jig with the cross member for welding in the rails. I clamped a pair of vise grips on the end after inserting it into the receiver through the rails and spacer - strictly to hold the rails in place while welding. Other than that, they are worthless.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 3:10:48 AM EDT
ok few thangs they arnt totaly worthless you just have to get alittle creative

stick them im a drill and file down the oversized "thumbtack side"
then just used an undersized drill when drilling out the old rivet

also the amd has larger long rivets than a norm ak

P.S. the idea for leaving the outside of the rivet intact isnt mine but ive tryed it and it works well
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 5:04:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2005 5:06:35 AM EDT by 2FALable]

Originally Posted By socandyman:
stick them im a drill and file down the oversized "thumbtack side"
then just used an undersized drill when drilling out the old rivet



The head on that rivet was turned down on a benchgrinder to a more normal size



also the amd has larger long rivets than a norm ak



You're right, which is why I said, "since it was used on an AMD build this problem is compounded vs. some of the other variants"

In the end they still aren't right and I don't believe they are safe especially in certain builds like AMD's where the trunion hole is a bit larger.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 5:58:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Exile:
Check EE i have some there for sale same great quality



Exile's rivet link
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 7:57:59 AM EDT
I buy my rivets from McMaster Carr, I can get enough rivets of both sizes for front and rear trunion and trigger guard to do 35 complete AKs all for under $20.

Tom
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 8:25:58 AM EDT
On another message board Ark and Spark complained about the Tapco long rivets, Buddie at Tapco contested his assumption that the rivets were too small, he said that they weren't and said "We have manufacturers that have studied and use our rivets. Another member asked him specifically what manufacturers use them, Buddie said he couldn't reveal that information.

Buddie at Tapco added: " I even saw one engineer that used “toothpicks” to hold his receiver together. He calculated the force and energy and determined that the rivets do nothing more than hold the receiver into place. He even test fired the rifle with the receiver held on with toothpicks."

If they don't delete the post here's the link:
www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=244190



Link Posted: 6/18/2005 6:52:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
On another message board Ark and Spark complained about the Tapco long rivets, Buddie at Tapco contested his assumption that the rivets were too small, he said that they weren't and said "We have manufacturers that have studied and use our rivets. Another member asked him specifically what manufacturers use them, Buddie said he couldn't reveal that information.

Buddie at Tapco added: " I even saw one engineer that used “toothpicks” to hold his receiver together. He calculated the force and energy and determined that the rivets do nothing more than hold the receiver into place. He even test fired the rifle with the receiver held on with toothpicks."

If they don't delete the post here's the link:
www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=244190






Lol. That was too funny. Sorry but an engineer working on an AK and doing mathematical equations to prove the rivets dont do anything is just retarded. I would like to see that Buddie from Tapco shoot this toothpick AK from his shoulder.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 7:14:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
Buddie at Tapco added: " I even saw one engineer that used “toothpicks” to hold his receiver together. He calculated the force and energy and determined that the rivets do nothing more than hold the receiver into place. He even test fired the rifle with the receiver held on with toothpicks."


Damn, guys, and here we've been wasting our money on all these drill presses, hydraulic presses,
the wide variety of tools, etc. And the ComBloc countries - I'll bet that they're pissed that they
wasted all that time & funding on riveting their AKs. Toothpicks, huh?

Shit, I'm off to Food Lion. Anybody want to do a Group Buy?
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 8:10:54 PM EDT
I'm selling the last of my rivets if anyone wants them. Down at the bottom of my add. 18 long swell neck, 60 short swell neck and some rivets for the trigger guards. Tired of mailing rivets out, everything I had left after I got done with packaging up the rivets for the last two guys. Link
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 8:11:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2005 8:13:13 PM EDT by 2FALable]
Just imagine the possibilities!

If we used JB Weld to hold the toothpicks in place, it would be virtually indestructible. Better yet a juice glass, a red led, an a toliet paper tube and we could make our own Aimpoints, which I bet we could hold together with toothpicks too....


shhhhhh! Don't let TAPCO hear they'll start charging us $10.00 a box for toothpicks and $4 for a toliet paper tube.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 8:57:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/19/2005 6:17:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2005 6:18:48 AM EDT by danc46]
Tapco lost me as a customer when they raised prices so damn dramatically. Two or three dollars for a $25 item would have been OK, but from $25 to $40 - screw them. This "toothpick" BS further proves to me Tapco is a company I WON"T DEAL WITH
Link Posted: 6/19/2005 10:02:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2FALable:
Just imagine the possibilities!

If we used JB Weld to hold the toothpicks in place, it would be virtually indestructible. Better yet a juice glass, a red led, an a toliet paper tube and we could make our own Aimpoints, which I bet we could hold together with toothpicks too....


shhhhhh! Don't let TAPCO hear they'll start charging us $10.00 a box for toothpicks and $4 for a toliet paper tube.



Don't forget the $12.00 shipping for those heavy toothpicks.
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 7:32:14 PM EDT
I did find a good use for the long rivets.

If you cut the head off and then oversize the hole a bit or turn down the rivets the work great for re-pinning gas pistons after swapping to US parts.


just anvil it on your vise or whatever and tap the rivet shank with a hammer, turn it over tap it down, and repeat until its squished down and wedged in... the cut it off, file, sand whatever to smooth it to the carrier surface.

voila!
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 1:46:00 PM EDT
Hi

Well I got in the group buy over at what most of you call as "goonsnet" and they are better looking then any else I have seen for sale.

As for TAPCO - I have had great buys from them on everything else, although I get most their items from DPHarms.com or Midwestarmory.com as it's cheaper.

G'luck with getting your rivets and such - and nice looking build! :)
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:04:45 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:33:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 9:34:38 AM EDT by maxxx93]

Originally Posted By danc46:
This "toothpick" BS further proves to me Tapco is a company I WON"T DEAL WITH



Actually this is not BS.

Tapco is referring to something that Winn R did, just to prove a point. This was done a couple of years ago, when all the gunco guys were still at GN.
Winn, who is a structural engineer by trade and presently a gunco mod, did this just to prove a point, in a thread concerning swell neck vs regular rivets.

He ran the numbers ( he even showed me the formula, even though it was over my head) and discovered that the shear loading was much lower than you would anticipate.

The trunnion was installed, held in place by 3 toothpicks per hole.
The rifle fired and cycled twice before the toothpicks let go on the 3rd cycle.
The really interesting part was that they failed, from the force of the bolt carrier slamming home and not from the recoil.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:07:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tommc8:
I buy my rivets from McMaster Carr, I can get enough rivets of both sizes for front and rear trunion and trigger guard to do 35 complete AKs all for under $20.

Tom


What length small rivets do you get??
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:26:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 8:28:00 PM EDT by santanatwo]
actually, the long rivets are perfect for the gas piston re-instalation. and for the center support. but beyond that I wouldn't use them on any rear trunion,

I drill rear trunions out to 3/16 anyways. I have even found AMD trunions that didn't need to be drilled to 3/16. which is weird, like ther are some tolerance issues there... anyways,

tapco is teh ghey

and their long rivets teh suk!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:54:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrKrink:

Originally Posted By tommc8:
I buy my rivets from McMaster Carr, I can get enough rivets of both sizes for front and rear trunion and trigger guard to do 35 complete AKs all for under $20.

Tom


What length small rivets do you get??



+1 give us part numbers dude! I have a McMaster Carr account!

Samuel
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:04:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Samuel:

Originally Posted By MrKrink:

Originally Posted By tommc8:
I buy my rivets from McMaster Carr, I can get enough rivets of both sizes for front and rear trunion and trigger guard to do 35 complete AKs all for under $20.

Tom


What length small rivets do you get??



+1 give us part numbers dude! I have a McMaster Carr account!

Samuel



From a thread at Gunco (http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13454&page=2) the part number for the small rivets to do the front trunnion and trigger guards (slightly shortened) is 97300A105 there are no rivets available from McMaster to do the long rear tang rivets.
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