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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/16/2004 1:56:54 PM EST
Nevermind I live in PRK right now, but what is the going rate for a decent Drag...

Romanian
Yugo
Chinese

Ar­e they any good or do they shoot like crap?

Morons like me want to know.

Seriously, I do

Thanks
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:07:01 PM EST
tag 'cuz I find 'em interesting too
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:32:43 PM EST
Don't know about the prices but I can tell you that they do indeed shoot good. Not a tack driver but acceptable by any recreational shooter's means.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:50:36 PM EST
saw a couple on gunsamerica.com for about $775....and one for 995....but it included scope etc...
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:55:57 PM EST
Russian SVD (real Dragunov) ~ $7000
Russian Tiger ~ $1500
Chinese NDM (308) ~ $1800
Chinese NDM (762x54r) ~ $2800
Romanian PSL/Romak 3 ~ $800
Yugo ? ~ ?


Chinese NDM 308 is supposed to be very accurate. The 7.62x54r rifles suffer from having only surplus ammo. No match grade available.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 5:56:43 PM EST
I think they are waaaaaaaay over priced.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 5:58:14 PM EST
I've seen some in SGN recently, about $650 IIRC
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 6:49:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:
I think they are waaaaaaaay over priced.



Yep, and they will never be as accurate as an AR10 you could build for the same $$$$.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:01:11 PM EST
You are paying for rarity of the Russian and Chinese Dragunovs. Very few of these were imported with no more in site.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:21:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:
I think they are waaaaaaaay over priced.



Yep, and they will never be as accurate as an AR10 you could build for the same $$$$.



But an AR10 won't round out an AK collection the way a dragonov will.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:41:40 PM EST
My cousin, kythri got a real nice (what appeared to be unfired) Chinese NDM-86 in 7,62x54R at one of the last Portland fn shows for $2100 (IIRC). He could tell you about how it shoots, but the only time he ever brought it out to shoot, he forgot the magazine (the Drag isn’t really happy about single loading) so there’s only been about 10 rounds down the pipe. Really pretty rifle though; he switched out all furniture for the Russian black plastic stuff. He’s busy packing to move right now, but maybe he’ll chime in.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 8:33:50 PM EST
I heard a Romak uses a diffrent gas system then a Dragunov, what is the difference?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 9:35:22 PM EST
IIRC the Romak's are scaled up ak actions, whereas the Drag's use a short stroke variant of the AK action. The Romak also uses a RPK-47(I think)reciever. Where the Drag use's a standalone dedicated reciever.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 9:36:56 PM EST
The Romak is similar to that of an AK rifle where the gas piston is connected directly to the bolt carrier.

The Dragunov uses a system similar to that of the SKS or M14 rifles. Gas pushes a piston which in turn pushes another part (operating rod in the case of the M14) which accuates the bolt.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 10:24:28 PM EST
Is there a big advantage to one compared to the other on a Drag?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 10:47:15 PM EST
I Shot a ruskie Drag that some retired (asian) Ruskie Admiral had. Shot real nice ad was indeed purty, and I aint into their guns that much.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 2:24:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 3:52:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:
I think they are waaaaaaaay over priced.


Yep, and they will never be as accurate as an AR10 you could build for the same $$$$.



I am by no means a great shot. That being said my personal best with my NDM-86 in .308 shooting Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" 168gr match & using a cheap Russian 8x scope is 4 shots ctc into .44" at 100yds and 3 shots ctc into .24" at 100yds.
Tomac
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:01:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By mbakercad:
Russian SVD (real Dragunov) ~ $7000
Russian Tiger ~ $1500
Chinese NDM (308) ~ $1800
Chinese NDM (762x54r) ~ $2800
Romanian PSL/Romak 3 ~ $800
Yugo ? ~ ?


Chinese NDM 308 is supposed to be very accurate. The 7.62x54r rifles suffer from having only surplus ammo. No match grade available.



Wolf has the "New" 7.62x54mm 148 grain that shoots awsome.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:46:55 AM EST
yeah, I've never been a fan of AKs or any weapons of the "badguys" but the Drag is pretty slick looking and it does pack a pretty good punch

This is all good info...thanks much
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 2:13:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 2:16:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Wolf has the "New" 7.62x54mm 148 grain that shoots awsome


If by 5 shots into 2 inches at 100m is awesome the yes it is awesome.


Hahahaha.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 3:36:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 3:37:18 PM EST by JHP]
w/ a scope???

Good Lord man....that is nothing to brag about
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 3:44:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:38:58 PM EST
what mag on the scope?

I get similar groups 1.5-2 MOA with my M1A....shooting Nato 146...

I recently used M118LR and got outstanding results -- hitting steel plates from 800 yrds w/ a 5mph 3 o'clock wind...I was fired up
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:44:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tomac:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:
I think they are waaaaaaaay over priced.


Yep, and they will never be as accurate as an AR10 you could build for the same $$$$.



I am by no means a great shot. That being said my personal best with my NDM-86 in .308 shooting Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" 168gr match & using a cheap Russian 8x scope is 4 shots ctc into .44" at 100yds and 3 shots ctc into .24" at 100yds.
Tomac



That is some excellant shooting, but it is the exception for that platform.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:50:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Tomac:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:
I think they are waaaaaaaay over priced.


Yep, and they will never be as accurate as an AR10 you could build for the same $$$$.



I am by no means a great shot. That being said my personal best with my NDM-86 in .308 shooting Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" 168gr match & using a cheap Russian 8x scope is 4 shots ctc into .44" at 100yds and 3 shots ctc into .24" at 100yds.
Tomac


That is some excellant shooting, but it is the exception for that platform.



I'm not so certain of that. The vast majority of .308 NDM-86's that I've read/heard about demonstrate exceptional accuracy w/match ammo. I'm planning a trip to the range this weekend to sight in my son's NDM-86 for him and if it exhibits worse accuracy than mine then I'll post the results here.
Tomac
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:47:03 PM EST
If you don't like milsurp 7.62x54R, roll your own. I've been using S&B brass for handloads, but I think there's new commercial brass available for that cartridge...
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 9:18:18 PM EST
Thanks for the info. On my list is an Ar10 or similar and now also a Romak, I shot one at BF this year and I now want one.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:03:48 AM EST
what scopes do people put on there...I don't think you'd want to stick with the el cheapo that comes with it...

Do people put the IOR family of scopes on there? How is that glass?
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 7:30:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:37:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By JHP:
what scopes do people put on there...I don't think you'd want to stick with the el cheapo that comes with it...
Do people put the IOR family of scopes on there? How is that glass?



I'm currently using the new Russian 8x42 w/mildot reticle & .5moa adjustments.
Tomac
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 9:48:06 PM EST
1" tube or 30mm?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 2:31:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By JHP:
1" tube or 30mm?



A little bit larger than 30mm (can still use the 30mm ScopLevel but the fit isn't perfect). No rings needed as it has the same integral mount as the other 8x42 scopes. Here's on on Ebay:
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31714&item=3694674029&rd=1
Tomac
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:54:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:55:16 PM EST
These rifles can shoot. If you are compareing them to a Remington 700 you will probably be disapointed. Part of their charm, is history, rareity (at least in the US) don't forget, dang they look cool. None the less, they can shoot, here's some groups.

Tiger with wolf
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731wolftigr2.JPG

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731wolftigr.JPG



NDM-86 .308 with hand loads

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731NDMload.JPG


Hilljack
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:27:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 12:36:08 AM EST by gs430]
I too owned an NDM in .308 (and sold it like an idiot). I had the entire gun refinished (grey park) and it was a beauty...at the time I could not find a good picatinney or weaver scope base for it (which is one of the reasons why I sold it)...I had a B-Square piece of shit mount that broke after 5 rounds (good thing my USO scope didn't fall and hit the floor)....but it was very accurate even though I only had a 4x PSO to work with. I'd love to buy another one....if anyone sees one for sale for a reasonable price, I'd be interested. :)

Now as for the difference...the Russian and Chinese rifles are REAL DRAGUNOV designs.

The others are just RPK's or AK's designed to LOOK like a Dragunov and that's about it.

As for comparing it to the AR-10....I owned a AR-10T and it had FTF and FTE problems. Sent it to Armalite for fixin' and got it back with the same problems (not as often though). Armalite ended up just giving me a brand new AR-10T which I am in the process of trading out for a wristwatch...obviously had a lemon but after reading about other people's problems, I decided that the AR-10 is just not the .308 platform for me as I will not own a gun I can not trust. My NDM never had a single failure....

I wouldn't even mind seeing a domestically made Dragunov with some upgrades (change the buttstock a little, add a solid picatinny rail platform, etc...)....I think it has some potential....
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:39:27 AM EST
If the AWB goes....does that open up real drags/tigers to the US market or are they covered under some other import ban?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:19:06 AM EST
Other ban covers the importation of said Russian and Chinese weapons.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:19:57 AM EST
As much as I love shooting my mosin I've often considered getting a rommy semi auto for this round

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:45:51 AM EST
so considering that Drags and Tigers are pretty much unobtainium....would anyone recommend a Yugo or a Romainian "drag"? Or would it be a waste of $$?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:56:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By JHP:
so considering that Drags and Tigers are pretty much unobtainium....would anyone recommend a Yugo or a Romainian "drag"? Or would it be a waste of $$?



The Yugo "sniper" rifles will set you back $$$$$$. The Romanian "Dragunov" seems to be the way to go. I'd go for the proper long barreled version, the short "paratrooper" seems an answer to a question nobody asked. 7.62x54R out of a 16.5" barrel??? And it costs more???
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 10:22:22 AM EST
yeah saw
Dragunov Sniper Rifle, Romanian .762 x 54 100% new in box , These sniper rifles are built in Romania & imported into the United States , built in scope rail & 4 x 26 military scope, real wood dragunov stock set , very accurate & light recoil, 23 inch barrel with built in muzzle brake make this a extremely accurate rifle at long ranges .Ammunition is very plentiful & cheap this unit is a must have for any military rifle collection .Rifle comes 100% new with scope & 10 round mag
Sale Price
$789.00

from atlantic firearms...definately want the 7.62x54mm those 200grn rounds look like damn mortar rounds.

My only hesitation is that I hate buying the weapon of the "bad guys" I hate seeing those iraqi hunks of shit aiming at our boys with these.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 11:02:17 AM EST
It's good to know your enemies weapon. Then, you'll be able to use the AKs and ammo you pick up off of their bodies
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:21:18 PM EST
roger that....
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:55:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By JHP:
what scopes do people put on there...I don't think you'd want to stick with the el cheapo that comes with it...

Do people put the IOR family of scopes on there? How is that glass?



What's wrong with the scope that comes with the Romak III???
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:13:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 8:13:43 AM EST by KMFDM]
I got to handle 1 ea. Chinese & Iraqi Dragunovs today quite interesting. The Iraqi is somewhat rough in comparison. I also got to handle another Romanian PSL today. I am going out to shoot them in the next few days for fun.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:41:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Wolf has the "New" 7.62x54mm 148 grain that shoots awsome


If by 5 shots into 2 inches at 100m is awesome the yes it is awesome.



Thats with YOU shooting.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:29:06 AM EST
The Romak-3/PSL comes with a 4x scope. It's not really bad in terms of optics and quality, but 4x isn't a whole lot of glass.

I shoot with a 8-32x44 scope on my VEPR K (16" barrel, 7.62x39) set at 8x or 9x and its a real joy to shoot on the weekends.

Robarm claims 1 MOA performance from the VEPRs using good ammo. I managed to grab a 0.5"-0.6" group at 50 yds using Wolf 122gr FMJ (it was a fluke really) so I can't say that it's impossible... but do-able.

Realistically the VEPR is capable of 1-2 MOA consistently with the right ammo (as in, you can pretty much shoot between 1-2 MOA at 100yd all day long).

You can't even see the points of impact on a 100yd or 200yd target with a 4x scope unless you have 20/10 - 20/20 vision.

Just remember the trajectory for 7.62x39 (zero'd at 100yd) is like a rainbow at 200yd+ and you should be fine using Kentucky sighting ;)

I dunno much about 7.62x54R but it should be a fairly accurate rifle (PSL and SVD/Tigr).
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:35:18 AM EST
I have also been looking at these as I have one at a local shop in 308... While I like the looks I keep putting it off because of too many other projects and too little $. Sure makes me wonder if these will be a collectable in the future as there are not many of them that you get to see....
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 7:31:58 PM EST
I have a Romak-3 coming. I remember back in the day when the Chinese "Dragunovs" seemed plentiful. Next thing I knew, they were gone and the prices shot up.

I don't know if the Romak-3's will dry up, but I know I want mine!
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