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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/16/2005 11:15:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 11:17:26 AM EDT by Stottman]
Now that importers cannot get new kits imported, maybe its sort of a blessing in disguise? Perhaps importers will start to import more "Sporter" AKs? When AKs were were imported whole, AK kits were very rare. Perhaps this will have a similar effect.

Think of all the current production AKs that could be imported-

All Yugos
Romanian RPK and RPk74 (same factory makes WASRs, why not an RPK?)
All Polish (hear rumors these are coming)
CZ-58s and CZ-2000s
Hungarians are out of production, but could be started again with a large enough order.
Egypt (again)

Out there, but maybe-
Albanian
Hear Rumors the Turks are making them
Vietnam (is there still an import embargo?)

Any thoughts?


Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:18:32 AM EDT
Tagged.

Err, suscribed. I think sporter AKs and a 60$ Armory USA receiver will become the norm.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:19:53 AM EDT
I like your way of thinking for one major reason. Recievers..US companies have gotten closer to a proper stamped reciever but the material is still sub-standard in comparison to foreign materials used and they still don't look as nice.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:21:59 AM EDT
What I think will happen is for those who want a genuine AKM clone they'll take a "sporter" ak, rip off the receiver, sell it, and put the whole rifle on a normal cap Armory, OOW, or ITM receiver.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:24:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
What I think will happen is for those who want a genuine AKM clone they'll take a "sporter" ak, rip off the receiver, sell it, and put the whole rifle on a normal cap Armory, OOW, or ITM receiver.



I don't see that happening. I know if I had the real receiver, I wouldn't destroy it just to have it
rebuilt on an American receiver that is still out of spec.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:32:03 AM EDT
Look at what the Russians did with the Saigas for the American Market.
The receivers are still regular cut like a AKM receiver without the mag well dimples.
They just didn't install the bullet guide. No cutting of the receiver is needed.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:36:26 AM EDT
I agree that more single stack receivers should be imported and then converted... Just like the SLR series (or the Romanian's which are cheapo's)
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:26:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
What I think will happen is for those who want a genuine AKM clone they'll take a "sporter" ak, rip off the receiver, sell it, and put the whole rifle on a normal cap Armory, OOW, or ITM receiver.




That makes almost no sense. Why go thru all that bother, labor, cost? Lo-cap receiver would only require some slight mods to accept high caps.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:27:34 PM EDT
I think thats an interesting point. There has been a big market for kits and guns made from kits. I think those that have enjoyed a healthy profit from that are looking for another avenue to keep the cash flow on. Why not gear up an import all these "sporting" models and have them converted here in the states.

Aren't all WASR's coming in as single stack, cut open and the US parts installed?

It makes sense to me that the others that hit first are gonna be the big sellers.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:28:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By No1Here:
Look at what the Russians did with the Saigas for the American Market.
The receivers are still regular cut like a AKM receiver without the mag well dimples.
They just didn't install the bullet guide. No cutting of the receiver is needed.



Russians do that for all Saigas in Every civilian market.... Dimples are starting to appear again in Europe, but Saigas have not been imported in to the US in like a year.

The Saigas they sell in Europe still dont take a standard AK mag. Even the full military versions with folding stock, flash hider, etc. They only accept special Saiga mags, though everyone mods them just like they do in the US.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:29:51 PM EDT
I think I also read about Polish rifles coming in, I think Arsenal Armory hinted at it. I sure would like a Beryl.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:46:55 PM EDT

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:50:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By another48hrs:
I think I also read about Polish rifles coming in, I think Arsenal Armory hinted at it. I sure would like a Beryl.


=================
Now this would be especially appealing!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:50:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mach6:

Originally Posted By another48hrs:
I think I also read about Polish rifles coming in, I think Arsenal Armory hinted at it. I sure would like a Beryl.


=================
Now this would be especially appealing!



A HUGE PLUS ONE!!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 2:49:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mach6:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By another48hrs:
I think I also read about Polish rifles coming in, I think Arsenal Armory hinted at it. I sure would like a Beryl.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



=================
Now this would be especially appealing!



Tell me more. What type of Polish AK besides the Beryl. Anyone in the know ..............TravisAasan !!!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:03:22 PM EDT
No. Any step in the wrong direction by the gun grabbers is not good.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:12:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
What I think will happen is for those who want a genuine AKM clone they'll take a "sporter" ak, rip off the receiver, sell it, and put the whole rifle on a normal cap Armory, OOW, or ITM receiver.




That makes almost no sense. Why go thru all that bother, labor, cost? Lo-cap receiver would only require some slight mods to accept high caps.



To get a 'real' AKM receiver with dimples.

Another idea would be to scrap parts kits together on the cheapest receiver possible, import them and tear them apart.

I'm full of ideas.

OR Import 16" barreled AK pistols!

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:34:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
What I think will happen is for those who want a genuine AKM clone they'll take a "sporter" ak, rip off the receiver, sell it, and put the whole rifle on a normal cap Armory, OOW, or ITM receiver.




That makes almost no sense. Why go thru all that bother, labor, cost? Lo-cap receiver would only require some slight mods to accept high caps.



To get a 'real' AKM receiver with dimples.

Another idea would be to scrap parts kits together on the cheapest receiver possible, import them and tear them apart.

I'm full of ideas.

OR Import 16" barreled AK pistols!




Pure genius. Replace the rear rtrunion block with one with a tang and a stock and you are back in business. Heck, they could even just screw in the rear trunnion so it is easy to remove. Even better is if someone was smart enough to design a rear trunion the allowed for the attachment of a tang.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:02:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:03:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:07:15 PM EDT by Orange_Neck]
I'd like to echo hound's view on any sort of firearms restriction by the public servants is not a good thing no matter how you want to look at it. The ATF (or whatever the hell they are called) had to find something else to enforce after the death of federal AWB. It's a self serving move to preserve jobs for those agents hired to enforce the AWB and nothing more. If the importation of these barrels is a clear danger to the national security of our country, everyone at the AFT should be thrown in jail for dereliction of duty for not enforcing the ban in the past.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:04:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
What I think will happen is for those who want a genuine AKM clone they'll take a "sporter" ak, rip off the receiver, sell it, and put the whole rifle on a normal cap Armory, OOW, or ITM receiver.




That makes almost no sense. Why go thru all that bother, labor, cost? Lo-cap receiver would only require some slight mods to accept high caps.



To get a 'real' AKM receiver with dimples.

Another idea would be to scrap parts kits together on the cheapest receiver possible, import them and tear them apart.

I'm full of ideas.

OR Import 16" barreled AK pistols!




Pure genius. Replace the rear rtrunion block with one with a tang and a stock and you are back in business. Heck, they could even just screw in the rear trunnion so it is easy to remove. Even better is if someone was smart enough to design a rear trunion the allowed for the attachment of a tang.



You can't make a pistol into a rifle.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:19:35 PM EDT
Yes, you can. You can't make a rifle into a pistol.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:24:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stottman:

Lo-cap receiver would only require some slight mods to accept high caps.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heck ya. I would even be happy if they would just import AKs with NO-CAP receivers (no mag hole). That should keep the hoplophobes happy. Making a mag hole is no big deal.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:28:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Orange_Neck:
I'd like to echo hound's view on any sort of firearms restriction by the public servants is not a good thing no matter how you want to look at it. The ATF (or whatever the hell they are called) had to find something else to enforce after the death of federal AWB. It's a self serving move to preserve jobs for those agents hired to enforce the AWB and nothing more. If the importation of these barrels is a clear danger to the national security of our country, everyone at the AFT should be thrown in jail for dereliction of duty for not enforcing the ban in the past.





Orange_Neck got it 199% correct.. Coming from the ATF, it's all about power and job security.. This is damn near the sole purpose of the NFA Act of 34, When prohabition died in 33, the alcohol revenuers had nothing left to do, so they turned to guns... Just as with the death of the AWB, they are left with less to do, so they turn to parts, something that the ATF should have no jurasdiction over, after all part are part, not firearms.. They are the BATFE, not BATFEP(parts)..
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:30:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ViperEH:
Yes, you can. You can't make a rifle into a pistol.



Yes; I stand corrected.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:48:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Orange_Neck:
I'd like to echo hound's view on any sort of firearms restriction by the public servants is not a good thing no matter how you want to look at it. The ATF (or whatever the hell they are called) had to find something else to enforce after the death of federal AWB. It's a self serving move to preserve jobs for those agents hired to enforce the AWB and nothing more. If the importation of these barrels is a clear danger to the national security of our country, everyone at the AFT should be thrown in jail for dereliction of duty for not enforcing the ban in the past.



I agree 110%.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:11:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 5:16:04 PM EDT by fadedsun]

Originally Posted By ViperEH:
Yes, you can. You can't make a rifle into a pistol.



But we're talking parts kits here-it doesn't matter. They're not marked PISTOL ONLY or anything, so a a fake can and a stock and trunnion and you're good to go.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:14:26 PM EDT
OR Import 16" barreled AK pistols!


1) if it's got a 16" barrel, can it even BE a pistol under federal law? Someone get their AK and a tape measure and see if OAL from muzzle to back of receiver is less than 26".

2) would it score enough points on BATFE's list to be importable?

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:21:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triage1998:


Tell me more. What type of Polish AK besides the Beryl. Anyone in the know ..............TravisAasan !!!



Besides the Beryl, theres the Mini-beryl model 96 (spruced up krink in 5.56) and also the Onyx in 5.45 (also another krink with a Tantal side folder). It would be easy for them to either make them with longer barrels or add fake cans to the front to be able to import them here, i'll take one of each maybe two McM
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:25:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ozzy_the_nuke:
Originally Posted By Stottman:

Lo-cap receiver would only require some slight mods to accept high caps.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heck ya. I would even be happy if they would just import AKs with NO-CAP receivers (no mag hole). That should keep the hoplophobes happy. Making a mag hole is no big deal.



That's an interesting concept - leave the receiver dimpled and have the correct front trunion already installed - mill opening CAREFULLY to size. Voila - imported receiver now converted to Hi-Cap. I like your thinking.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 9:37:06 PM EDT by Stottman]

Originally Posted By Dawg180:

Originally Posted By Orange_Neck:
I'd like to echo hound's view on any sort of firearms restriction by the public servants is not a good thing no matter how you want to look at it. The ATF (or whatever the hell they are called) had to find something else to enforce after the death of federal AWB. It's a self serving move to preserve jobs for those agents hired to enforce the AWB and nothing more. If the importation of these barrels is a clear danger to the national security of our country, everyone at the AFT should be thrown in jail for dereliction of duty for not enforcing the ban in the past.



I agree 110%.



I agree as well, that was not the point of my question.. I wasnt asking about the legal aspect, but rather what is availible. You have to make due with what you have, and make the best out of a bad situation.


The old Hungarian single stack guns had dimples. As do the Bulgarian SLR105s when they are imported.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:47:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:40:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 6:48:56 AM EDT by Orange_Neck]
Stottman- I know that you did not intend to get into a legal or a philosophical discussion about the enforcement of the barrel ban. I believe you wanted to point out that the ban may be forcing the importers to start importing "sporters." And for those who love to tinker with sporters, having greater numbers of sporters available is certainly a good thing. I apologize if I seemed to try to hijack your thread and turn it into another type of discussion.

However, I could not resist the temptation of responding due to certain phrases you used- "...blessing in disguise?" or "make due with what you have, and make the best out of a bad situation." Had the US founding fathers made due with what they had, they wouldn't be referred to as founding fathers by us at this moment in time. It's the wrong attitude to have just as the bolt action folks would say why should I care about AWB since it affects me not. It's a decision we have to make- do we want the attitude of a freeman or a subject?

ETA: Don't you just love it- I am sorry for hijacking your thread but I am going to do it again anyway.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:14:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shooter521:
OR Import 16" barreled AK pistols!


1) if it's got a 16" barrel, can it even BE a pistol under federal law? Someone get their AK and a tape measure and see if OAL from muzzle to back of receiver is less than 26".

2) would it score enough points on BATFE's list to be importable?





As for the ATF points list, they're heavy enough, and they have adjustable sights. Throw on a finger rest grip, and it should be good to go!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:31:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Orange_Neck:
Stottman- I know that you did not intend to get into a legal or a philosophical discussion about the enforcement of the barrel ban. I believe you wanted to point out that the ban may be forcing the importers to start importing "sporters." And for those who love to tinker with sporters, having greater numbers of sporters available is certainly a good thing. I apologize if I seemed to try to hijack your thread and turn it into another type of discussion.

However, I could not resist the temptation of responding due to certain phrases you used- "...blessing in disguise?" or "make due with what you have, and make the best out of a bad situation." Had the US founding fathers made due with what they had, they wouldn't be referred to as founding fathers by us at this moment in time. It's the wrong attitude to have just as the bolt action folks would say why should I care about AWB since it affects me not. It's a decision we have to make- do we want the attitude of a freeman or a subject?

ETA: Don't you just love it- I am sorry for hijacking your thread but I am going to do it again anyway.



I didnt even bother to read past the first line in your second paragraph.. I didnt come here to discuss politics or anything like that.. Forget I asked, forget I even mentioned the topic..
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:40:49 AM EDT
A Russian style Dragunov would be nice to see
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:01:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shooter521:
OR Import 16" barreled AK pistols!


1) if it's got a 16" barrel, can it even BE a pistol under federal law? Someone get their AK and a tape measure and see if OAL from muzzle to back of receiver is less than 26".

2) would it score enough points on BATFE's list to be importable?




A pistol can have any length barrel it wants. 1 inch to 1000000 inchs.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:09:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Shooter521:
OR Import 16" barreled AK pistols!


1) if it's got a 16" barrel, can it even BE a pistol under federal law? Someone get their AK and a tape measure and see if OAL from muzzle to back of receiver is less than 26".

2) would it score enough points on BATFE's list to be importable?




A pistol can have any length barrel it wants. 1 inch to 1000000 inchs.



So who's gonna start importing RPK pistols?



Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:29:39 PM EDT
Let me ask a hese
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Let me ask a about these kits. Haven't they been bringing in complete (military,full-auto) AK's and cutting up the receivers in the US (or specifically a Foreign Trade Zone) to make the kits? If that's the case, why can't they just destroy the receivers overseas and just import the rest as scrap metal? Maybe I'm missing something, but as was posted earlier, the ATF shouldn't have any control over scrap metal, surplus firearm parts, or anything other than a complete serialized receiver. Someone please explain this to me.



Sucks to have your name.

No one can explain logic into anything the BATF does.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:48:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
............. the ATF shouldn't have any control over scrap metal, surplus firearm parts, or anything other than a complete serialized receiver. Someone please explain this to me.


Man, the ATF even controls shoe laces! Or haven't you heard?
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