price

Well, VEPRs are not AK's in the strictest sense, they are RPK's and visually are not a complete divergence form that.  Look at the buttstock its basically a modern polymer clubfoot.

I've heard they are a bit heavier than your standard stamped AK.  Partly due no doubt to the milled reciever, and I wonder if the stock is a bit heavier than normal AK wood or plastic.

Oh that's right, my bad.  They use the thicker RPK receiver which is supposed to add a lot of strength.  I've heard nothing but good regarding their accuracy, fit and finish.  You should buy one and put your sling on it.  

Quoted: price?  they seem to average about 550 dollars...which is a helluva lot cheaper than an arsenal AK.

but more then one you can build from a kit, and it looks like a AKM, instead of a neutred AKM

Weight, angle cut receiver, but thats about it.

They are heavy.
They can't use standard AK furniture.
It takes a lot of effort to convert one into an RPK clone.

That's about all the cons I can think of.

Quoted: They are heavy. They can't use standard AK furniture. It takes a lot of effort to convert one into an RPK clone. That's about all the cons I can think of.

Those are all valid points I think especialy if you are a collecter. I am not. The reason I got my Veprs is because I wanted a quality self defense rifle that had what I considered acceptable accuracy and was priced right.

They are heavy: This is the only draw back for me but I do not mind it that much.

They can't use standard AK furniture: True or not at least without a lot of money and work. Krebs can do it for you if you have the money. However I do not care for the standard AK furniture and like the VEPR furniture far better. This is a personal preference though.

It takes a lot of effort to convert one into an RPK clone: Very true. If that is what you want to do.

If you want a classic AK then I would not get a Vepr I would get an Arsenal or a Vector. If you want a durable, quality, accurate, and affordable self-defense rifle then the Vepr is fantastic.

Quoted: Those are all valid points I think especialy if you are a collecter. I am not. The reason I got my Veprs is because I wanted a quality self defense rifle that had what I considered acceptable accuracy and was priced right. If you want a durable, quality, accurate, and affordable self-defense rifle then the Vepr is fantastic.

+1, well put Mr. Khan. BTW, loved you in "Mongolia"!

Then you get to make the next series of choices:

7.62x39mm
5.45x39mm
5.56x45mm
7.62x51mm

16" barrel
20" barrel

muzzle brake

I have a 16"VEPR K without the brake. It runs with Bulgarian waffles ok, but the Polish Beryls fit like they were designed for it. Nice rifle, but damn heavy. Geat for the range.




Here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards off the bench w/Wolf:



This is not typical, but shows what the rifle is capable of. Typical groupings were 2 to 2.5 moa. Maybe someday I'll try with match ammo for an experiment, but RSA already did an experiment I think.

ARin are you looking to buy?

Here is a pic of my Vepr k in 7.62x39mm



Here is an example of the accuracy that is easily acheived with this weapon. In this picture at 25 yards unsupported , I emptied a 30 round mag into this target, Wolf FMJ ammunition. I wasnt really trying to hard with it and it was the first time I had shot the weapon since I got it. But the accuracy is still quite impressive.



The cons of owning a Vepr are

1. You must use the furniture that came on it pretty much. But heck, I like it.
2. It is heavy. But it has the best damn reciever on the market IMO. It is stamped and a twice as thick as a Mak90 reciever.

Thats it.

The pro's of owning a Vepr are

1. Heavy duty rifle. Will withstand lots of heat due to the barrel being very thick.
2. Accuracy is freaking awesome for an AK. My Mak90's cant hold a candle to it.
3. The finish is absolutely beatiful. The fit and workmanship is A+, a 9 out of 10.
4. And it loves all AK47 magazines. I have used Chinese, Polish, and other European magazines. Never with a single malfunction. All with FMJ and HP Wolf Polymer coated ammunition.

The next best AK out there I think would be an Arsenal milled reciever weapon.

Hope that helps.

Quoted: Thekatar, what type of mount and scope is that? and what caliber? and where to find Polish Beryl mags?

The optic is a PK-AS "Pitbull" and can be found here and here and here.

.223 caliber, otherwise known as 5.56x45mm. Beryl mags? Here and here.

Do VEPRs have bayo lugs?

Can you get them with threaded barrels?

VEPR FAQ's

Quoted: VEPR FAQ's

They say that the Muzzlebrake can be removed, but they don't say if it's got a threaded barrel. Neither do they answer the BAYO lug question.

Quoted: i dont know about the threading, but no lug. its made and imported as a "sporting rifle"

Grrr. How hard would it be to replace the FSB?

Oh, and if you do  get a VEPR ARIN, be sure to post pics of it with your birds

<----'Tiel owner

Too heavy.

Pistol grip too large and not user replaceable.

The front handguard is held on by one lousy screw that does double duty as the front sling swivel.

Mine would rarely make it through a magazine without a malfunction. It is a rare enough rifle in the arfcom hive mind that no one was able to diagnose it. Since it ran 10-50 rds between malfunctions it was pretty expensive to track it down and I decided to throw in the towel when all the extra firing lead to the next fact.

It was my most accurate “AK” at 25 yards and the most inaccurate at 200 yards.

So I sold it and now all I want are lightweight “AKs”.

YMMV

Its the only complaint I have heard of on a Vepr. Mine is awesome.

Quoted: the malf's weren't mag related?  This is the first i have heard (in my limited research)of an innacurate, unreliable VEPR.

It was not the mags. They worked fine in two other "AKs" and I went through quite a few of them. I also tried different brands of ammo.

I have posted about the malfunctions before, but mostly got total silence. It looked like a ongoing moneypit for me try to fix it and it was simply not worth it given it’s “cons.”

Realistically, there are no spare parts in country, the Russian manufacturer refuses to sell any, and short of exchanging guns you are out of luck if some things were to break.

It was simply not for me.

If they were to do some redesigns of the stock and put a decent flash suppressor on it, I might be tempted to try one again, but only because AKs have become neat collector items to me as well as shooters. If this were going to be your only “AK” you are severely missing out. If it’s just a stepping stone as you fill the safe with other AKs, it’s worth having at least one.

I’ve had three bad “AKs” now. One VEPR, and two Arsenals. Will it ever end?  Ohh, I also have the rusty SEAK that was improperly finished. I guess that makes four!

Quoted: Quoted: the malf's weren't mag related?  This is the first i have heard (in my limited research)of an innacurate, unreliable VEPR. It was not the mags. They worked fine in two other "AKs" and I went through quite a few of them. I also tried different brands of ammo. I have posted about the malfunctions before, but mostly got total silence. It looked like a ongoing moneypit for me try to fix it and it was simply not worth it given it’s “cons.” Realistically, there are no spare parts in country, the Russian manufacturer refuses to sell any, and short of exchanging guns you are out of luck if some things were to break. It was simply not for me. If they were to do some redesigns of the stock and put a decent flash suppressor on it, I might be tempted to try one again, but only because AKs have become neat collector items to me as well as shooters. If this were going to be your only “AK” you are severely missing out. If it’s just a stepping stone as you fill the safe with other AKs, it’s worth having at least one. I’ve had three bad “AKs” now. One VEPR, and two Arsenals. Will it ever end?  Ohh, I also have the rusty SEAK that was improperly finished. I guess that makes four!

You had two bad arsenals and a bad VEPR!!!??? You are either full of s**t or the most unlucky consumer to ever buy guns. If you bought them from a single vendor then dont do business there anymore.

Good luck with your guns in the future.

Quoted: You had two bad arsenals and a bad VEPR!!!??? You are either full of s**t or the most unlucky consumer to ever buy guns. If you bought them from a single vendor then dont do business there anymore. Good luck with your guns in the future.

I have witnesses!

Back when I was a newb on the board this guy named Templar hosted my pictures of the first known Arsenal receiver to skip heat treating before it shipped. I was already having trouble with the VEPR I got a local dealer back then too. Next I got in on the AK special edition group buy and got a rusty SEAK, although it took some time before mine showed. Some people had the rust coming through immediately. Then I got one of the new Arsenal no ban AK74 clones. When I told Templar about some of the problems I was having with it he said it was call tag time. That was several months ago and I’m still waiting on a remedy. He says I have a rain cloud following me.

I’ve done well with AR15s and FALs and been able to fix whatever problems that crop up myself, except for a couple. DSA sent me a barrel group without an attached gas tube or provision to attach one. It took a couple of months to get that one fixed. Then there was the Magpul group buy where I got a bad recoil spring tube and then in the confusion they forgot about me. The good thing about that was by the time I asked where my stock was they had the new model out and replaced my old one with that. Ohh, and then there was a LMT upper I bought only to find the lower receiver had M4 cuts but the barrel extension did not.

Don’t you guys ever have gun problems?  

Quoted: Quoted: You had two bad arsenals and a bad VEPR!!!??? You are either full of s**t or the most unlucky consumer to ever buy guns. If you bought them from a single vendor then dont do business there anymore. Good luck with your guns in the future. I have witnesses! Back when I was a newb on the board this guy named Templar hosted my pictures of the first known Arsenal receiver to skip heat treating before it shipped. I was already having trouble with the VEPR I got a local dealer back then too. Next I got in on the AK special edition group buy and got a rusty SEAK, although it took some time before mine showed. Some people had the rust coming through immediately. Then I got one of the new Arsenal no ban AK74 clones. When I told Templar about some of the problems I was having with it he said it was call tag time. That was several months ago and I’m still waiting on a remedy. He says I have a rain cloud following me. I’ve done well with AR15s and FALs and been able to fix whatever problems that crop up myself, except for a couple. DSA sent me a barrel group without an attached gas tube or provision to attach one. It took a couple of months to get that one fixed. Then there was the Magpul group buy where I got a bad recoil spring tube and then in the confusion they forgot about me. The good thing about that was by the time I asked where my stock was they had the new model out and replaced my old one with that. Ohh, and then there was a LMT upper I bought only to find the lower receiver had M4 cuts but the barrel extension did not. Don’t you guys ever have gun problems?

Way to hang in there but daaaaaaaamn! Seriously though those are top notch rifles that leave others, ie those ARs you mentioned you had good luck with, in the dust as far as reliability. Too bad bro it isnt meant to be for you to have an AK I guess.

Quoted: Way to hang in there but daaaaaaaamn! Seriously though those are top notch rifles that leave others, ie those ARs you mentioned you had good luck with, in the dust as far as reliability. Too bad bro it isnt meant to be for you to have an AK I guess.

It just takes many rounds down range to check them out. I won't trust my life to a gun without at least 500 rds through, preferably 1000 rds. When I posted about my first AK problem, which occurred at around 450 rds, I found out some shooters who had them a lot longer had 300 rds or less through theirs.

It’s kind of funny, but in the AK world the more expensive the rifle, the more likely it will be bought by someone who doesn’t shoot very often. People with cheap AKs put thousands of rounds through them, but many people with expensive ones shoot no more than a hundred rounds a year.

Anyway, the first Arsenal rifle was replaced with a new one and I have since used it in a bunch of rifle competitions and never had a failure with it until I ran into a bad lot of Wolf ammo it didn’t like. When I switched back to my normal ammo it ran without any failures.

The SEAK had some problems at first because it was tight, but then went on too 100% reliability with all but two magazines I tried. It has around 1200 rds through it and I trust it.

I plan to stick with AKs. I would really miss the good ones and can’t part with um.

Quoted: Quoted: Way to hang in there but daaaaaaaamn! Seriously though those are top notch rifles that leave others, ie those ARs you mentioned you had good luck with, in the dust as far as reliability. Too bad bro it isnt meant to be for you to have an AK I guess. It just takes many rounds down range to check them out. I won't trust my life to a gun without at least 500 rds through, preferably 1000 rds. When I posted about my first AK problem, which occurred at around 450 rds, I found out some shooters who had them a lot longer had 300 rds or less through theirs. It’s kind of funny, but in the AK world the more expensive the rifle, the more likely it will be bought by someone who doesn’t shoot very often. People with cheap AKs put thousands of rounds through them, but many people with expensive ones shoot no more than a hundred rounds a year. Anyway, the first Arsenal rifle was replaced with a new one and I have since used it in a bunch of rifle competitions and never had a failure with it until I ran into a bad lot of Wolf ammo it didn’t like. When I switched back to my normal ammo it ran without any failures. The SEAK had some problems at first because it was tight, but then went on too 100% reliability with all but two magazines I tried. It has around 1200 rds through it and I trust it. I plan to stick with AKs. I would really miss the good ones and can’t part with um.

Sounds like your doing something wrong. Not that you dont know how to take care/ handle guns, But for one person to have more problems than everyone on this site combined doesnt sound like a coincidence, but more operator error. And I mean no disrespect in that. To prove a point to "f++king jarheads" that aks are better then m16s we took aks that we had over in iraq, that had been in fires and had the furniture burned off and soem that had been setting for what looked like 10 years in stockpiles in the desert and gone out and shot them just to show that these guns will shoot time and time again almost to no end of abuse. We even filled one up with sand, dumped it out and fired it. To me, for these guns to just not work? or jamb constantly? Is either opperator error or an act of god.

When you see nothing but praise for a rifle that is a sure sign it's a safe queen and rarely shot. The same goes for cars. Imagine a world where most people take five years to get to their first oil change and then tell you how reliable their car is and they never have a problem.

Then there are the people who keep up the high praise up for their problem piece and put it on the EE. I know of one example where an unreliable upper kept changing hands and no one ever said anything about its problems.

Factories can and do produce let mistakes slip. It’s up to you to check out your rifle thoroughly to determine if it had a problem. A year ago some people here got 5.45 AKs with 7.62mm ejectors. The symptom was an only occasional malfunction. Not enough a casual user would even care enough to sort it out.

In Iraq the malfunctioning AKs have long ago been fixed or moved into the civilian market. You are comparing a rifle build for the military, that passed tests for the military, and has been in service with the military, so it is not the same as buying a factory rifle that perhaps went through a casual inspection and might not have even been test fired prior to being sold. It is up to the end user to test it. It is cheaper for the end user to be quality control than paying a professional inspector to do it.

Here are a couple of pictures what happens when a factory is not careful:







The investigation found:
“A notation error on a heat treating job order of the primary production run of SA-M5S caused one very important QC step to be listed as complete when it was not. This single missed procedure out of the customary hundreds of manufacturing steps involved led to a very small number (believed to be less than 5) of SA M5S or SA M5SG units to be potentially out of spec. [incorrect Rockwell hardness]”

If you want to do another cool sand test, bury an M16 and an M14 in the sand. Dig them up and see which one malfunctions first. After the shock subsides, redo the test.

Quoted: If you want to do another cool sand test, bury an M16 and an M14 in the sand. Dig them up and see which one malfunctions first. After the shock subsides, redo the test.

I imagine the Corp already has....

My "safe queen" 7.62 VEPR has had just over 2K through it, including a case of the defunct lacquer cased Wolf.  If we were invaded by Martians, that is the first weapon I would pick up.

Your VEPR is a safe queen?

Well, there's a first time for everything.

(disclaimer, I have a KTR-03V, not a regular VEPR.)

- weight, even with no optics. It's front-heavy too which is annoying.

- can't change the stock. I've been waiting since November for RA to make the folding stock for it.

- there is no checkering on the pistol grip. The guy who said it's too big must love the regular AK grip. I hate regular AK grips, they are waaaay too small. I just wish it was checkered.


Not much other than that. The KTR-03V is uber-sweet, I just wish the folding stock would become a reality.

Robinson folder?????  Ha!  Ha! ha!  (sorry, that was sarcasm).  I got sick of waiting through all the "next month"  answers I got from Robinson on their folder.  I finally jus got an ACE folder and it is great.  I wish I hadnt waited so long.  I do love the rifles though they are heavy beasts (I have a vepr k and a KTR03v), I just didnt like the Robinson runaround.