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Posted: 7/17/2010 11:33:57 AM EDT
SO installing my feed ramp I just got, drilled the hole, was SLOWLY drilling the tap, after about 2-3 rotations...SNAP!!
How the heck am I going to get this out without damaging the tap that started?????? 
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Posted: 7/17/2010 11:49:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Anyone????
 I'm sure one you you guys have done this....
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Posted: 7/17/2010 11:51:51 AM EDT
[#2]
That is not a good thing you did. The tap is hardened steel. The only time i did this on a sportbike part. I had to get a new part.
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Posted: 7/17/2010 12:02:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
That is not a good thing you did. The tap is hardened steel. The only time i did this on a sportbike part. I had to get a new part. Well, not too hardened of steel..it snapped. lol....and no, it's not a good thing. I know there is an extractor that mechanics use, but I think it's too big to get inside there.....on my way to get some skinny needle nose pliers now 
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Posted: 7/17/2010 12:21:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Skinny taps will snap pretty quick if your not careful. But you can't drill them. If it's flush, you've got a problem for sure. Sorry there's not much I can do to help....
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Posted: 7/17/2010 12:38:12 PM EDT
[#5]
there are gizmos called "a tap extractor". serious.
try mcmaster carr online, they'll have it. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 1:17:57 PM EDT
[#6]
well, I got the "tip" out..there isstill 1 1/2 - 2 taps worth of the tip broke flush inside. I have been sitting here drilling it out..I've already broke 2 bits...I may have to go from a 6-32 to an 8 and re-tap it with an 8/32 screw....I have a hand tapper now, prob. now is, I am on my last drill bit.....who the hell said this was a 15 min job? lol DAMNIT!!!
I guess if it comes down to it, I'll drimmel the ramp area clean and have it either welded into place, or J/B weld that fucker...lol |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 1:20:20 PM EDT
[#7]
One of the techniques I was told (but haven't tried yet) is since the taps are hardened and rather brittle, you may be able to shatter it with a punch and get all the smaller pieces out.
Otherwise, it'd say try to find some stiff wire that will fit in the flutes on opposite sides of the tap, clamp onto them with some vise-grips as close to the top of the tap as possible and try to twist it out. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 1:23:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Use a punch and drive the broken piece out,counter-clockwise. Slowly.
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Posted: 7/17/2010 1:39:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Use a punch and drive the broken piece out,counter-clockwise. Slowly. Man you guys ROCK It's out!!!!!! One punch with a nail set {smallest I had} popped it right out!!!!! I owe you 2 a beer!!!! |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 2:05:18 PM EDT
[#10]
If you'd like to avoid breaking another one, turn the tap 1/4 turn in and then back it out at least 1/2 turn.
Repeat until the hole is tapped. Backing the tap off clears the chips out of the tap. 
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Posted: 7/17/2010 2:07:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
SO installing my feed ramp I just got, drilled the hole, was SLOWLY drilling the tap, after about 2-3 rotations...SNAP!! How the heck am I going to get this out without damaging the tap that started?????? Hope that doesn't mean you had the tap in a drill and was using the power drill to spin the tap. It is a 15 minute job if you don't break the tap. Were you using cutting oil? Did you have the tap in a drill press to hold it straight? Were you turning the chuck by hand and backing it out after every 1/8th-1/4 turn to clear the tap of all metal chips that bind the tap? |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 2:11:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
If you'd like to avoid breaking another one, turn the tap 1/4 turn in and then back it out at least 1/2 turn. Repeat until the hole is tapped. Backing the tap off clears the chips out of the tap. +1 You were not using the tap like it should be used. Use oil too, and it doesn't hurt to back it out completely and spray the chips off of the tap and out of the hole every few turns. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 2:32:34 PM EDT
[#13]
I just did this.
First of all, throwout the crap tap that comes with the kit and order a high speed steel black oxide drill bit and tap from McMaster-Carr. You'll end up getting industrial quality bits and a greenfield tap. This is the REAL shit. 1/4 turn only then back out and keep it lubed with tapmagic. Took me 20 seconds to drill the trunion and about 10 minutes (taking my time) to tap it. This is how I did it and I was amazed at how easy it was. Don't use crap tools. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 2:50:20 PM EDT
[#14]
When I did mine, I used CLP for lube & turned the tap about 1/8th of a turn & backed it out, over & over again until I was done. Nothing broke.
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Posted: 7/17/2010 5:04:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
SO installing my feed ramp I just got, drilled the hole, was SLOWLY drilling the tap, after about 2-3 rotations...SNAP!! How the heck am I going to get this out without damaging the tap that started?????? Hope that doesn't mean you had the tap in a drill and was using the power drill to spin the tap. It is a 15 minute job if you don't break the tap. Were you using cutting oil? Did you have the tap in a drill press to hold it straight? Were you turning the chuck by hand and backing it out after every 1/8th-1/4 turn to clear the tap of all metal chips that bind the tap? I was I used the drill and was going SLOW with it..I was using oil too.
So Anyway, I have a clean hole..but still no threaded hole. I went to Lowes {closest} and got the only one's taps they had which are the Kolbot store special. {6-32} I got 2 in case one snapped. I bought the hand tap thing...still no luck, oil, try to run in the tap by hand to get started, it won't grab. AFter messing with it...throwing tools and cussing still nothing. Once I feel it "grab" I was going to run a 1/2 turn, back out and run again...I looked at the tip of the bit..it looks like it's eating the threaded part away..... WTF am I doing wrong? I am mechanically inclined, thought this would be a 10 min job. I'm sitting here with my beer 5 hours later...scratching my head, Saiga fully apart on the kitchen table...wife bitching over the tools and shit everywhere..... My last though is to hit a mechanics shop around here and see if they have a mac-daddy tapper to hit it with and toss them $20 to tap it. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:03:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
SO installing my feed ramp I just got, drilled the hole, was SLOWLY drilling the tap, after about 2-3 rotations...SNAP!! How the heck am I going to get this out without damaging the tap that started?????? Hope that doesn't mean you had the tap in a drill and was using the power drill to spin the tap. It is a 15 minute job if you don't break the tap. Were you using cutting oil? Did you have the tap in a drill press to hold it straight? Were you turning the chuck by hand and backing it out after every 1/8th-1/4 turn to clear the tap of all metal chips that bind the tap? I was I used the drill and was going SLOW with it..I was using oil too.
So Anyway, I have a clean hole..but still no threaded hole. I went to Lowes {closest} and got the only one's taps they had which are the Kolbot store special. {6-32} I got 2 in case one snapped. I bought the hand tap thing...still no luck, oil, try to run in the tap by hand to get started, it won't grab. AFter messing with it...throwing tools and cussing still nothing. Once I feel it "grab" I was going to run a 1/2 turn, back out and run again...I looked at the tip of the bit..it looks like it's eating the threaded part away..... WTF am I doing wrong? I am mechanically inclined, thought this would be a 10 min job. I'm sitting here with my beer 5 hours later...scratching my head, Saiga fully apart on the kitchen table...wife bitching over the tools and shit everywhere..... My last though is to hit a mechanics shop around here and see if they have a mac-daddy tapper to hit it with and toss them $20 to tap it. I'm betting that your trunnion is harder than normal. I've run acrost some that were STUPID HARD! I.E. I was grinding a cobalt drill bit into POWDER instead of drilling (I was drilling the hole for the sidefolding latch) Normally, there would be nothing wrong with your technique. I power tap with my mill all day long, but you can't do it if the material's too hard |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:10:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
SO installing my feed ramp I just got, drilled the hole, was SLOWLY drilling the tap, after about 2-3 rotations...SNAP!! How the heck am I going to get this out without damaging the tap that started?????? Hope that doesn't mean you had the tap in a drill and was using the power drill to spin the tap. It is a 15 minute job if you don't break the tap. Were you using cutting oil? Did you have the tap in a drill press to hold it straight? Were you turning the chuck by hand and backing it out after every 1/8th-1/4 turn to clear the tap of all metal chips that bind the tap? I was I used the drill and was going SLOW with it..I was using oil too.
So Anyway, I have a clean hole..but still no threaded hole. I went to Lowes {closest} and got the only one's taps they had which are the Kolbot store special. {6-32} I got 2 in case one snapped. I bought the hand tap thing...still no luck, oil, try to run in the tap by hand to get started, it won't grab. AFter messing with it...throwing tools and cussing still nothing. Once I feel it "grab" I was going to run a 1/2 turn, back out and run again...I looked at the tip of the bit..it looks like it's eating the threaded part away..... WTF am I doing wrong? I am mechanically inclined, thought this would be a 10 min job. I'm sitting here with my beer 5 hours later...scratching my head, Saiga fully apart on the kitchen table...wife bitching over the tools and shit everywhere..... My last though is to hit a mechanics shop around here and see if they have a mac-daddy tapper to hit it with and toss them $20 to tap it. I'm betting that your trunnion is harder than normal. I've run acrost some that were STUPID HARD! I.E. I was grinding a cobalt drill bit into POWDER instead of drilling (I was drilling the hole for the sidefolding latch) Normally, there would be nothing wrong with your technique. I power tap with my mill all day long, but you can't do it if the material's too hard I was starting to question my mechanical skills....I have rebuild my 'ol 351, installed trannys, TAPPED new bold holes in the engine block, but this freaking AK is kicking my ass!!!! What Do I need, a freaking diamond bit??????? |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:16:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Why not just rivet the som' bitch in place???
D. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:24:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Why not just rivet the som' bitch in place???
D. I DID think about that... I found my rivet tool when looking for some drill bits
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:28:51 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm giving up tonight....ran out of beer, been cussed at by the wife for throwing tools, parts on the kitchen table, cussing in front of my stepson...oh and now I'm into her 12 yr old Jamison
If there are any good folks that live within 20 miles of the Conyers GA area that have a mac-daddy, laser cutting, superman killing tap in a 6/32 I will GLADLY pay you $20 to help a brotha out.....
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:30:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I was starting to question my mechanical skills....I have rebuild my 'ol 351, installed trannys, TAPPED new bold holes in the engine block, but this freaking AK is kicking my ass!!!! What Do I need, a freaking diamond bit??????? It depends on how hard the trunnion is. The tap your using is probably high speed steel (HSS) the next step up is cobalt, and the top is carbide (big $$$) When I made my "Bugolil" I made a railed topcover for it, and I threaded the recoil spring assembly for a setscrew to secure the topcover. I broke 2 HSS taps doing this, and had to order a cobalt one. This one also broke, but fortunately I finished the thread before it did. Hardened steel is very difficult to thread. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:31:05 PM EDT
[#22]
You don't use the drill with power on to tap. I don't know of anyone that taps or threads a rifle with the use of a power tool running. Even with an AR barrel locked in a lathe you rotate a threading die by hand and back it off when only a 1/4 rotation or less.
I've threaded a number of barrels and tapped a few trunnions and never had an issue. But I have also known people to ruin taps and dies in no time by not repeatedly backing them own to clean the metal chips. |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 6:49:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Hint-Leave the beer in the cooler until after the hole gets tapped.
Been there, done that, paid the price. GL, Eric |
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Posted: 7/17/2010 10:10:54 PM EDT
[#24]
common' , beer doesn't lessen your skills, it just shortens your temper. oh, never mind, i get it now. hey, i'm not working on anything so i'm allowed having beer.
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Posted: 7/18/2010 8:16:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Well, here it is Sunday...Feeling a little rough...damn that Jameson and beer mixture
Going back to get a new set of tap bits..and start fresh. I am going with the advise of 1/2 turn, back out and repeat. If it fails today, I will drop her off at Peachstate Guns here in my area.
Update later...thank you guys for the reply's and letting me vent. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 2:18:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Ok..I'm going to plan A,B,C,.... D now....nut and bolt with a dab of JB for extra hold!
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Posted: 7/19/2010 3:48:35 PM EDT
[#27]
This guy IS Bubba.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 5:48:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
This guy IS Bubba. You just noticed the screen name?
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Posted: 7/20/2010 2:59:32 AM EDT
[#29]
Now I feel like a "blister"..... shows up after the work is done !!!
Taps are hardened and thats why they can break easily if the chips get galled, overheated or ran w/o cutting fluids. Tap magic is what we use in the shop when hand tapping or chasing threads. On the mills we use a synthetic blend coolant. Removing a broken tap is best accomplished by backing it out w/ a punch and hammer or just breaking it up with a punch and hammer (recommended on larger parts that can take the impact) And yes, backing the tap out and clearing the chips is essential to the process, as well as some cutting fluid. +1 to the guys that responded quickly with these recommendations. And we had a fabrication guy work some OT over in machining and use an impact wrench on a 1.5" tap before..... so not everyone knows what they are doing, even when they are around it professionally. He is great at fab and welding, but hes been banned from the machine shop !!!! That was on a $20K part !!!! The threads were cut on my mill but needed to be chased for the 2 finger go gage requirement, he could have seriously damaged those threads if we didnt stop him in time. |
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Posted: 7/20/2010 3:54:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Ok..I'm going to plan A,B,C,.... D now....nut and bolt with a dab of JB for extra hold! Hard to go much further astray than that. Wrong fastner: Check Wrong product to secure the nut: Check. Be sure to let us know what happens when the guide comes loose. |
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Posted: 7/20/2010 4:06:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Whats wrong with Bubba?
Hey, the way I see it....screw/tap vs nut/bolt, with a dab of JB weld is the SAME thing as a screw with thread lock...in fact,I bet it will hold better!! Besides, as long as the new mags feed and my rifle fires...who cares. I'm starting to think Saiga owners are getting the prissy attitude of AR guys. 
Sitting here looking at that little ass screw, I think I would rather have a bigger hardened bolt with the JB for extra measure anyway. This is MY rifle.There are many like it, but this one is MINE...
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Posted: 7/20/2010 4:09:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok..I'm going to plan A,B,C,.... D now....nut and bolt with a dab of JB for extra hold! Hard to go much further astray than that. Wrong fastner: Check Wrong product to secure the nut: Check. Be sure to let us know what happens when the guide comes loose. 6/32 by 1/8" screw and thread lock: UNCHECK 8/32 by 3/4" with bolt & JB weld: CHECK Report after 1000 rounds: SOON!
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Posted: 7/20/2010 7:23:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Well now you know. Rivet the next one.
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Posted: 7/21/2010 3:21:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Well now you know. Rivet the next one. I have heard that too, I haven't ran the nut/bold and JB as of yet. Tell me a bit more about this rivet deal.....what size and how do you get the tool in there? |
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