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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/16/2005 4:51:53 PM EDT
What finishes do you guys like on your AKs? What are the pros/cons of Duracoat or Park or Bluing? Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:15:06 PM EDT
Since I've started refinishing, I really like Gun Kote. It 's easy to apply if you use an airbrush, it's also easy to touch up scratches or just shoot a whole new finish, I've definately been converted ...
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:02:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 7:55:48 PM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:51:57 PM EDT
My picks would be GunKote or MolyResin.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:36:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:43:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RS39:
Regardless of the paint, park it first.

+1
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:53:53 AM EDT
OK, so I send out my AK to a builder who only parks, and then get it painted
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:05:57 AM EDT
IMO, the following are what I see as pro's and con's of some of the more common final AK finish methods:

Blued pro's.....
*Apearance, apearance, apearance hat*Because it does not hide blemishes, it also allows you to see any early on minor corrosion problems that some other finishes may hide until the problems become somewhat major.
*A finish that was an early on common way of finishing Com Bloc AK's.

Blued con's.....
*Does nothing to cover machining marks or blemishes.
*Offers least amount of corrosion protection when compared to the other common finishes.
*Requires a more concentrated metal polishing effort prior to bluing (a smoother final polishing of the metal will only enhance the final blued finish look).
*Scratches seem to stick out like sore thumbs.

Gray to Black Phosphate only finish (what many consider as Parkerized) pro's.....
*Because it usually is done over a bead or light sand blasted finish, fine metal blemishes are better covered up.
*Phosphate leaving a matte finish helps to further cover up fine metal blemishes.
*The combined bead blast/sand blast finish, coupled with the matte phosphate, leaves a porous texture that helps retain your oil protectents. Seems a bit tougher overall than a blued finish.
*The matte phosphate finish makes it easy for one to later use it as a base for a surface finish (like paint), if that is something that one chooses to do later.
*The appearance is pleasing to most. The reason for this can probably be traced to the fact that us Americans are very used to seeing U.S. military weapons having phoshate finishes, and it has grown on many of us.

Phosphate con's.....
*It can be pretty difficult to touch up scratches.
*It is only a little better than bluing in resisting corrosion.
*For many purists, it is simply not a common or appropriate finish that was used by former Com Bloc AK builders.


Paint (or the like) over phoshate pro's.....
*Of the three methods covered here, this one has the most corrosion resistance.
*Commonly used method on modern AK's.
*Somewhat easy touchup on scratches and such.
*Can be coated with extremely tough scratch and wear resistant finish.
*If the top coat is compromised, the base phoshate finish will still offer "some" protection.

Paint (or the like) over phosphate con's.....
*While the final surface finish "can be" applied very nicely, a surface finish (such as paint), may look to many as the least sophisticated of the three methods mentioned. Painted finishes are usually not considered to have the rugged military look of a phosphate only finish, or the beauty of a blued finish.
*Surface finish can hide rust, sometimes not letting you know there is a problem developing.
*Surface finishes can sometimes peel or chip, which is unsightly and very difficult to cover up.
*Top surface coat will have the least chemical resistance. While some top coats can be chemical resistant, they will usually not be as forgiving as a blued or phosphate only finish.
*Many final top coats are available, but this also means that there are many that are not as good as others, and therefore their resistance to chemicals, water, wear, and scratches, can vary greatly. Much homework needs to be done before making a final choice of topcoat.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:07:37 AM EDT
My last build, I parked with the intention of later painting. The directions said to paint right away or oil the parked surface. So, I've oiled it now. My question is--when I do go to spray Molyresin on it, how do I prepare the now parked surface? Is just cleaning it in Acetone/MEK enough? I'd imagine sanding/sandblasting would be counterproductive. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:19:30 AM EDT
Its more a matter of durability,protection and low maintenence.Several years ago,I went on a weekend shooting/camping trip with some friends.It rained all weekend,when we made it home and unpacked our gear,the Romys and Chinese AKs had substancial surface rust and my old beat up Maadi with paint over park finish was just wet.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:17:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 9:22:58 AM EDT by SA-M7]

Originally Posted By squeky:
My last build, I parked with the intention of later painting. The directions said to paint right away or oil the parked surface. So, I've oiled it now. My question is--when I do go to spray Molyresin on it, how do I prepare the now parked surface? Is just cleaning it in Acetone/MEK enough? I'd imagine sanding/sandblasting would be counterproductive. Thanks.



The reason they stated to paint right away after parkerizing, is because at that point there would have been a totally oil free surface, and this adds much reliablity in the bonding and drying of the applied paint finish.

After the parkerized finish has been well oiled, the paint application can still be done, but one has to really make a concentrated effort in removing any of those oils and such from the surfaces. You will of course strip down the gun as is reasonably possible (stock set, fire control group, gas tube, bolt and carrier assembly, recoil spring assembly, dust cover, etc.)
You will have to do your very best to flush out all the oils from all metal surfaces using a quality degreaser (solvent based, not water based). Wear quality chemical resistant gloves while doing this to protect yourself, and to avoid your body acids and oils from recontaminating the surfaces. Remember to remove all oils from the gun, inside and out, to prevent hidden oils from working their way onto these areas before you start your painting. After you have done this, I would say that you should let the gun set in a warm dry room for a day or so, allowing enough time to see if any oils work their way out of certain crevices (ex: oil that may be left and start spreading out from under rivets, barrel to receiver connection area, from under the gas block, from under sight housing, etc). Even if it looks as if you have removed all the oil after letting it sit a day or so, I would at least do the degreasing process once more to guarantee a good contaminate free surface. If you do run into oil in certain areas after the initial degrease and day of wait, then another good degreasing and day of wait should be followed. This should be done until you are positive that there is nothing left anywhere that may be waiting to come out and contaminate your project. Only after following this procedure as many times as it is needed, would I then say to go ahead and continue on with spraying the surface with your topcoat.
It takes a little extra effort, but it also guarantees a good contaminate free surface for your painting project
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:31:34 AM EDT
Thanks for the long answer! Would a heat gun be an acceptable replacement for a sunny day? I'm thinking degrease it a lot, heat it, degrease some more, heat it some more, and repeat. MEK won't take parking off, right? Is there anything that will besides sandblasting?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:12:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 12:19:41 PM EDT by SA-M7]
You don't have to bother using any heat gun. The oil will just naturally expand out from where ever it is on it's own. The only real heat you will need is a warm spot in your house, 75 to 100 degrees will do just fine, and preferably in an area where there is relatively low humidity. The best bet is to literally use your degreaser to flush out all areas, especially areas that may be hiding/holding oil. Be generous with your degreaser hParkerizing (phoshate) is not a surface applied finish, but instead it's a finish where chemicals are used to alter the surface of the metal. Phoshate will not chip or peel because it is actually the steel itself in altered form. You can scratch, sand, wear, or whatever, the thin upper layer of phosphate to expose metal that was not effected by the chemical phosphating process, but it will not be effected by any commonly used degreaser.
Why does a degreaser have no effect on phosphate?......... because a phosphate finish is achieved by steel surfaces having a permanent reaction to certain chemicals applied to it, effectively altering the metals surface.
In other words,........... a phosphate finish is the metal itself that has had it's exposed surfaces transformed by chemical reaction.
Phosphate is "not" a seperate surface applied finish.

There are chemicals that will effect or damage phosphate and blued finishes. For instance, using navel jelly (which contains phosphoric acid), will remove not only rust, but also removes blued finishes.
You see, navel jelly is used to remove oxidation, and bluing is a form of controlled oxidation. This type of chemical, and some others, will probably have a similar negative effect on phosphate, which I believe is also a controlled oxidation. Of course these are not chemicals one would use to remove grease and oil h,
Hope this all helps
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:08:46 PM EDT
Helps very much. Gonna spray the hell out of it then paint. I parked it for the range, I'm gonna test fit and function so I can make easy adjustments without it being painted. When I'm happy with function, I'll paint 'er up. Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:57:16 PM EDT




Tell me that isn't a good looking gun... By Chris Butler at AK-USA. (I swear I'm not an AK-USA employee - just a very happy customer).

Spooky
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 2:55:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
images.snapfish.com/3447562723232%7Ffp45%3Dot%3E2336%3D4%3B7%3D57­5%3DXROQDF%3E232396%3B684%3A%3C3ot1lsi

images.snapfish.com/3447562723232%7Ffp3%3B%3Dot%3E2336%3D4%3B7%3D­575%3DXROQDF%3E232396%3B67%3C7%3C2ot1lsi

Tell me that isn't a good looking gun... By Chris Butler at AK-USA. (I swear I'm not an AK-USA employee - just a very happy customer).

Spooky




Nice Slab Side!

I like to Park then Gunkote...I will be buying some Molyresin when my gunkote runs out. Just to test it as well.

Link Posted: 8/18/2005 6:57:15 AM EDT
I Duracoat over zinc phosphate. I have a Maadi I black laquered over park about 15 years ago, had several thousand rounds through it, and it still looks about new.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:45:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TerryG3:
I Duracoat over zinc phosphate. I have a Maadi I black laquered over park about 15 years ago, had several thousand rounds through it, and it still looks about new.



TerryG3, Really looks that good? I keep hearing about it, but haven't seen it first hand. I might have my Tantal finished in Duracoat then. Do you have gunkote or moly resin on any other weapon for comparison?

Thanks for the feedback.


Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:48:41 AM EDT
Park and Gunkote baby....
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