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Posted: 1/17/2009 8:16:36 PM EDT
[#1]
They are very tough without a press. Did you soak it for a few day in PB Blaster?
Any members around you that could help you out? |
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Posted: 1/17/2009 8:26:52 PM EDT
[#2]
None that i know of.
No i didnt soak it... all ive read just said to spray it and maybe heat it alittle and it should push right out.... I have zep twister...not pb.. But will diesel work as well? Im so at my end with it.... i smacked my hand really good too. My gunsmith wouldnt return my calls, so i tryed everything i could find online. If i do get it out is it going to be ok? ill have to grind the mushroomed ends off. Im gona go ice my hand and check back. Thanks again. |
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Posted: 1/17/2009 8:46:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Had a similar problem like this myself, and after trying everything, decided to go get a 20-Ton press and AK tooling.
Turns out that the pin was galling badly within its hole for some reason, and was acting as an internal locking mechanism for the pin. After removal, the pin was damaged, and so was the pin hole. But I replaced the pin with a new one and all is well. On that particular build, every single pin from the front sight post to the rear trunion rivets fought me all the way. Freaking miserable! |
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Posted: 1/17/2009 9:07:06 PM EDT
[#4]
In replacing the pin i would have to get it reheadspaced right?
I might be trying to drive it the wrong way. im soaking it in zep and ill try it again tomorrow. I really dont want to distroy the pin or the trunion, and dont want to reheadspace it either. Thanks |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 5:02:13 AM EDT
[#5]
mushroomed ends? Doh! Got any pics?
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Posted: 1/18/2009 5:16:57 AM EDT
[#6]
IM Sent. I'm in Iowa, perhaps I can help. I'm just about 30 miles north of Des Moines.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 7:09:59 AM EDT
[#7]
I have drilled them out before. Replacement pins are available.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 7:13:51 AM EDT
[#8]
i've never seen one that DIDN'T require a press to get out. i've even had a few that made me worry that the press was going to break before it started moving.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 7:59:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Some people have used a large vise to remove pins. I believe they make a short punch to get it moving and then use a longer punch and block with a hole in it on the other side to drive it out the rest of the way.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 9:52:01 AM EDT
[#10]
A machinist at work told me the biggest mistake people make trying to remove pins is beating on them until they mushroom making removal impossible. At the point you realize it isn't going to come out, drill into the center with a 1/4 or 7/32 drill bit and put your punch in the drill mark, it'll transfer the impact forces to the core of the pin where they need to be instead of mushrooming the head.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 11:37:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Try to freeze it instead of heating it.....spray a lot of penetrating oil on it and let it sit for a day in the freezer, then try again.
I had some bitches that wouldn't budge and that worked for me. |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 3:30:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Heating the trunnion will shrink it when it cools and make the fit tighter. You want to heat the pin as rapidly as
possible to a cherry red, it will stretch the trunnion hole as it expands and then shrink down when it cools. At this point use a 1/8" bit and start from the outside edge of the pin and drill through (halfway from each side). Make 3 holes towards the center of the pin and then go slightly larger on the two inner holes. The cut will allow the pin to collapse and come out. Start from the top so you are not anywheres near the barrel. You don't have to get right out to the edge, a sliver of material left will still give and allow it to collapse. |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 4:08:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
i've never seen one that DIDN'T require a press to get out. i've even had a few that made me worry that the press was going to break before it started moving. I've demilled a dozen kits so far and never once had to use any spray or a press on any of them, pins or barrels. A large ballpeen hammer, a short steel punch in a gloved hand and a solid work surface and every one of them came out with a few sharp blows, even a couple of mildly galled ones. Support the left side of the trunnion on a flat surface. I use a piece of aluminum with a hole drilled in it to allow the pin to go into as it comes out of the trunnion. If the trunnion isn't supported corrrectly, or the work surface is too soft, one is waisting their time. |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 4:27:47 PM EDT
[#14]
I will get it out for you, i just need a pick to see how bad its mushroomed.
All I need is for you to cover the shipping and maybe throw me in a AK mag. I have built over 15 AKs and the Polish ones are challenging, but not impossible to get out. It should be ok unless its overly mushroomed, and then you are gonna have to drill it out. Let me know FREE |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 5:15:11 PM EDT
[#15]
I need to be sure im trying to drive it the right way. The end with the bevelled/tapered end is the side to be struck with the punch/press?
I always thought the heat made is swell...thus heating the trunion would make the hole larger?? Ive also thought of freezing the thing and then heating it?? Ive drilled a hole down the center just over half way, to get a punch in the hole, supposidly to get the blowes more centered? Im thinking of getting a press so i can press the rivets too. Thanks |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 6:03:22 PM EDT
[#16]
forget it
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Posted: 1/18/2009 6:47:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Im looking at that one at harbor freight, same thing, just orange.
Wish it would just come out.... |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 8:03:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Drill through it. Start small - 1/8" - and step up in drill size. At some point the stress will be relieved and it will punch out.
Then get a new pin. As long as the holes in the trunnion and groove in the barrel are not damaged, the headspace will be the same. Mark the barrel on both sides of the trunnion to make sure it goes back in to the same place. Try holding the punch with vice grips. Good luck ! |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 8:15:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Im afraid of drilling into the trunion or barrel.... It looks straight. I think i already have it drilled to 5/32.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 8:28:16 PM EDT
[#20]
I removed the barrel pin from my Polish kit today. Used a 1-ton arbor press, but I have used my bench vice before.
I applied a little heat to the trunion and some penetrating lube. Then tried pushing it out and could NOT get it to budge. So I tried pushing it out the other way and it started moving with little trouble (just a 3-foot pipe on the handle of the arbor press). I started trying right-to-left, but had success left-to-right (looking FROM the chamber TO the muzzle). Rob |
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Posted: 1/18/2009 8:47:30 PM EDT
[#21]
I driven the pins out of every build I've done with a hammer and punch, except for the first one. I always drive them from left to right. The trick is making sure the trunnion is supported properly.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 9:02:31 PM EDT
[#22]
I've removed pin from left to right and right to left with a press on many a kit. Either way works just fine with a 12 ton press and a pin removal jig. The pins are not tapered... take a measurement of both ends.
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Posted: 1/21/2009 5:19:03 AM EDT
[#23]
I had the same problem. I bought 2 polish underfolder kits. The first one I built with no problem at all. The second one I could not get the pin to move with a 20 ton press. I actally pushed the rear sight base over and cracked it without moving the pin. I thought I was totally screwed. I went ahead and welded it where the front 4 rivets go and used rivets in the mag well. Not the greatest looking build in the world but it runs like a champ.
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Posted: 1/21/2009 7:05:30 AM EDT
[#24]
When removing barrel pins with a hammer and punch, make sure your work is supported on a hard suface, such as a concrete floor with some padding to prevent making up your trunion. A wooden work bench flexes and absorbs a lot of the energy...Also, hold the punch in a pair of vice grips. Holding it in your hand, you risk messing up your hand/breaking a finger. I find I will hit the punch a lot harder if im holding it in vice grips as my hand isnt right there. Also, you dont have to do it all at once. I found that it would move a little bit..then I would get frustrated and re soak it will oil, leave it for a day or even a few hours, then go back and do a bit more....It only moved a little each time, but the oil soaking in helped and in a day or so I had the pin out. Good luck...
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Posted: 1/21/2009 7:30:06 AM EDT
[#25]
I always just used a vice, a 5lb hammer, small bolt, and a socket to get pins out. Put the trunnion in a vice with the socket cupped over one end and the bolt on the other(lined up with pin of course), and tighten. Wack the vice with the hammer, tighten some more, and repeat. There wa ssa guy here or somewhere else that broke his vice though. My cheap Wilton has held up over the years though. Soaking the pin in a penetrating oil helps.
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Posted: 1/21/2009 12:32:24 PM EDT
[#26]
I had to drill out 3 out of 4 barrel pins. Removing those bad boys are about the hardest part of a build for me.
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Posted: 1/21/2009 1:43:24 PM EDT
[#27]
9 out of10 no problem with a 4x hammer - but every tenth one or so has to go in the press - don't know any way around it other than drilling it out and replacing. Once you mushroom it even a little bit it won't come out without milling it flush again.
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Posted: 1/21/2009 6:08:29 PM EDT
[#28]
soak with penetrating oil for a few days, re-oiling each day. Then BFH and solid backing surface...I tried the airhammer thing and it isn't even close to the BFH method.
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Posted: 1/21/2009 6:21:20 PM EDT
[#29]
I don't understand how you can say that - the BFH is what caused this problem. Using it more doesn't fix it.
An air hammer is a far superior method than a BFH - no deformation of the pin and the vibratory effect works well where impact does not. If its too much for an air hammer, then the press delivers precise, consistent, CONTROLLED pressure. I've seen far too many guns seriously marred or even ruined because people didn't want to be bothered with acquiring a suitable tool, and just went the BFH route. |
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Posted: 1/22/2009 1:03:59 AM EDT
[#30]
If you cannot get it out, send it to freefalle7.
The guy is a master of homebuilding. |
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Posted: 1/22/2009 2:49:01 AM EDT
[#31]
I had some problems with a couple Rommy Gs where I had enough force on there to bend a hardened bolt. You need to use penetrating oil and let it sit, use shims to make everything square, and use a big press and give it lots of force.
Then, give the bottom of the jack a solid wack with a big hammer with the press still pushing and it will come out! Some of the ones I had problems with the pin was all galled almost like the pin was over sized. Now, your air hammer may have expanded this hardened pin like a rivet at this point so you may have increased the difficulty even more but I would still try to press it out before drilling. |
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Posted: 1/23/2009 7:26:08 PM EDT
[#32]
I don't understand how you can say that - the BFH is what caused this problem. Using it more doesn't fix it.
An air hammer is a far superior method than a BFH - no deformation of the pin and the vibratory effect works well where impact does not. If its too much for an air hammer, then the press delivers precise, consistent, CONTROLLED pressure. I've seen far too many guns seriously marred or even ruined because people didn't want to be bothered with acquiring a suitable tool, and just went the BFH route. No, he used an air hammer... maybe mine was too wimpy...but it was hard to control and did not do anything. The BFH method is not as neanderthal as it sounds if done correctly. I held the short punch with a vise-grip and had a hard metal backing surface and an "impossible" Romy pin finally moved...just my 2 cents |
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Posted: 1/24/2009 6:21:32 AM EDT
[#33]
So if the air hammer was "hard to control" perhaps it is operator error?
And when I say "air hammer" I am not referring to the $30 Harbor Freight Variety. Using one of those is as primitive as using a BFH of hte Ball-Peen or sledge variety. It is an "rivet gun" with a tickle trigger such as the ACAT 3x or 4x in the $150-$175 range. http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/2,402.html If one lacks the manual dexterity to control an air hammer, how likely is it that the same person can control a hammer and punch without hurting themselves or the gun? I use an ACAT 3x for FSB and GB pins - 3mm and delicate, and rivets, and a 4x for demilling and the barrel pin. I do so because used properly, an air hammer has far more control than any manually swung hammer. It does take a little practice. One should not dismiss the tools simply because one has not yet gained proficiency with them. After 600 AK builds, it pains me to remember my pre-air hammer days of darkness and confusion. Now I have seen the light and the world is good. |
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Posted: 1/25/2009 5:16:21 PM EDT
[#34]
I built an AMD 63 and I had the same prob with the barrel pin.I took it to a friend`s machine shop and they couldn`t get it to move on their press.I had him drill it for me and I took it home and drove the pin (what was left) out with no prob.Then I used a 2 jaw press to remove the barrel from the trunnion.The only problem was that a small sliver of metal was left in the hole and scarred the barrel a little.I polished it up and its not noticeable unless ya look really close.So the moral of the story : If ya drill it check the hole and use some spray lube to "wash out" the hole and put compressed air to it!
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq133/EncomMP45/PICT0028.jpg |
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Posted: 1/26/2009 6:29:05 AM EDT
[#35]
unfortunately, that galling on the barrel from pressing out is common. More so perhaps on the Yugos, but nothing to worry about.
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Posted: 1/27/2009 3:15:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Anyone ever drill a pin out completely. I built a handfull of ak's and never had to use a press to get a pin out. This last one the bfh didnt work and my press didnt work. I drilled most of it out and it still wont budge. So what size bit are you guys using that had to drill it completely out.
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