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Posted: 9/23/2011 7:40:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2011 6:49:51 AM EST by Pneumagger]
I received a Bravo Mount from Attero earlier today and here are my first impressions.
I will go to an indoor range tomorrow to try it out and then when the weather clears up nex week, I'll zero the rifle at 200yds for a ~275 point blank range.
Setup: Romanian WASR 10/63 Rifle... Primary Arms MD-09 Micro Dot... Attero Arms Bravo Mount
(EDIT: I think ARFcom neutered my huge pictures... preventing me from raping your margins and delivering better pictures)

Packaging was fairly basic. A mount, screws, allen wrenches, and locktite were wrapped in bubble wrap within a fedex envelope. No complaints here, as the mount made it safely to my doorstep just fine within one week of ordering. Instructions were included but I opted to watch the youtube video for AK sight removal and mount install. Insallation was simple, requiring little more than a screwdriver, hammer, and block of wood. More importantly, installation of optic after installing mount and subsequent installation of my AK guts was simple. The dust cover easily pops right on and off and in no way does the mount make rifle disassembly difficult at all. The general appearance of the optic is pleasing with no rough machining lines and all edges are clean and smooth. Finish is uniform anodized black and the lettering looks to be laser engraved. The mount comes with 2 screws of differing lengths to tighten the mount down because, as we all know, AK pattern rifles aren't the most consistent weapons out there. I ended up usng the smaller screw and even ended up grinding 1.5-2 threads off the length to make fit as snug as possible. The screw fits into the modified leaf spring which, IMO, could probably be a bit thicker or have more thread reinforcement as I feel one could ealy overtorque/strip such thin thread engagement... however this is purely observational and in the Attero's defense, it does seem to lockup solid and be rugged so I won't worry.




The mount is very solid and there is no wiggle or play. One of the first noticable features is just how low the optic sits on the mount. The mount sits so low, in fact, that the bikini cover no longer fits and requires modification to fit over the front lens properly. One may or may not consider this to be a detriment to the design, however it must be recognized that the entire concept of a rear cowitness AK sight requires extremely low mounting - and it's nothing an exacto knife can't fix - so I don't consider this a problem whatsoever. Another nice feature of the mount is the new dot front post. It looks slick and I plan on matching the irons to the dot after the dot is zeroed. Being that the Attero mount is one piece, zeroing the irong the irons is straightforward and completely independent from the red dot using standard AK zeroing tools. Although one thing that grabbed my attention was that the front dot only has a white dot on one side of the post... so if you absolutely want to look at a 3 dot iron picture you had better hope your rfle zeros with the post using multiples of whole turns. The good news is that the dots appear to be inserts rather than a dab of cheap paint and the dots really are vibrant and white - the camera pics are a tad dull looking and doesn't give a true sense of contrast.





So how does the dot/mount appear to work... well, here is where the review (at least for me) gets a little dicey. Now, from what I understand the Bravo Mount is supposed to be a lower 1/3 cowitness and Attero's product photos appear to show this on a Draco SBR. My mount as installed MIGHT be a lower 1/5 cowitness at best. When I first installed the mount/optic with the short screw there was actually no cowitness whatsoever... the line of sight through the irons was below the optic's visible tube. I was dissapointed so I ground a few threads of the short screw to make it shorter and was able to screw the mount low enough to *just* be able to see the iron sights peeking into the optic field of view. The cowitness is so low that the 4:30 emitter position of the PA MD-09 (similar to the Aimpoint T1) completely obscures the rightmost dot on the rear iron sight. Keep in mind, the optic and irons are not zeroed and hopefully zeroing won't hurt what little cowitness I have. At any rate, while I would not consider the irons quickly *usable* they are usable nontheless if you take the time to line up what little bit peeks out. Pictured below is the view through the optic with the optic on, off, and cowitnessed. Also, I must point out, that Primary Arms makes a GREAT clone with a crisp dot, solid feel, and nice fit/finish - helluva plinker or practice optic for $80. For some reason my camera can't capture the clarity of the dot, but I assure you that it looks round and crisp.




Overall, think it's a good mount. It's light and simple and doesn't get in the way of my rifle "being an AK" - I get to have my classic AK look wth a mount that's not intrusive or a foregrip that burns the piss out of my hands. Other than the very low cowitness and thin threads of the modified leaf spring I like the mount alot. I personally value my iron sights quite a bit so I'm reluctant to give this more than a 7/10 for the time being - but with a better cowitness this sight would easily be 9/10 or 9.5/10. Who knows... perhaps it's just my particular rifle (it is a Century WASR after all). Overall I'll give the mount an 8.5/10 as indicated in reply #3. I'll save further opinion until I shoot it tomorrow for the first time.
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 9:06:52 PM EST
The PA optic is not as low as an Aimpoint, so that may be part of what you are seeing.
Link Posted: 9/24/2011 4:01:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By acr1:
The PA optic is not as low as an Aimpoint, so that may be part of what you are seeing.


Yes, the PA micro sits .125" higher than the Aimpoint.

Link Posted: 9/24/2011 6:45:31 AM EST
Well, then that would be the issue. I was under the impression they mounted identically - my fault. Given this informatoin, I will have to upgrade my initial assesment to to 8.5/10... as the mount does appear to work completely as advertised (although I wish my PA Microdot was more compatible).
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 1:37:55 PM EST
Update:

I went to the range and got the the optic close to zero at 33 yds. The center of the PA MD-09 optic sits aproximately 2.38 inches over the bore. So a 123gr projectile at 2400fps should cross zero around 33 & 200 yds yielding a 235 yard +/- 3" point blank range. I plan on trying to get it around zero at 200yds outdoors at some point in the future... but for now it's reaonbly close to dialed to make my final judgement. I chose to dial in the optic and then match the irons to the dot after I got home from the range.

As you can see, the raised Attero rear sight notches bring the front sight post up almost to the top of the ears of the front sight for the irons to "zero". Nevertheless, afer adjusting the irons with the PA MD-09 red dot, the cowitness disappears just below the bottom of the optic sight window. I can't say this aspect is too pleasing, but the optic itself did prove to hold zero throughout 100 rounds and the mount still feels solid. Overall, I would say if you really want a cowittness you should avoid using this mount in conjuction with the Primary Arms Dot (stick wth the Aimpiont T1). I like it and I'll probably keep it mounted for quite awhile. The mount itself is solid and I do like the concept... just stick with using the Reflex-type MRD optic or the Aimpoint T1.


Link Posted: 9/27/2011 5:16:34 AM EST
So in theory if you are aiming with the dot without cowitnessing will you still hit what you are aiming at?
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 9:01:46 AM EST
Well yeah, the dot will still be point of impact. But if the Primary Arms MD-09 ever dies or breaks or losses zero, using the irons becomes almost impossible. Although, one could make the statement that people should not put clone optics on a real fighting rifle.

I'm probably going to try the MI mount to see if the cowitness is better. I know the PA micro dots have been extremely reliable for people, but I still like the piece of mind that good ole irons provide.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 11:30:40 AM EST
Ok I see what you're getting at. I don't have their red dots but I have their 3-9x scope and it has nice clear glass. Too bad the optic mount can't be QD for that setup. Im thinking of going with either that mount or the MI mount for my Fastfire.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 12:53:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 12:54:03 PM EST by AtteroArms]
Pneumagger,

We realized shortly after its release that the height between the T1s and PA's are different - the Bravo mount was designed around the T1. We're working on a fix and anybody with the current Bravo mount and a PA sight will be offered the new one in exchange for the current one. Just shoot us an email and we'll make sure to contact you when the fix is released.

Until then, happy shooting!

-Attero Arms
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 2:57:51 PM EST
Attero,

Are you able to add threads to the piece the reviewer had concerns about? I'm a retired USMC gorilla man and i enjoy cranking down on my fasteners. I like my shit to be as overbuilt as possible.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:21:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 8:22:05 PM EST by AtteroArms]
Originally Posted By southfloridaguns:
Attero,

Are you able to add threads to the piece the reviewer had concerns about? I'm a retired USMC gorilla man and i enjoy cranking down on my fasteners. I like my shit to be as overbuilt as possible.


The modified leaf spring couldn't be any thicker than it currently is. Additionally, it is made of hardened stelel and the bolt would strip out far before the spring's threads would have issues. It is quite a sturdy design.

Thanks for your interest,

-Attero Arms
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