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Posted: 12/21/2003 8:34:23 PM EDT
I know most gun action in movies is complete BS but thought I'd come here to see if this falls in the BS category
watching Lethal Weapon 4 on TBS and at the end Riggs fires an ak full auto under water, fires a 4-5 shot burst. Is this possible with an AK?
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 9:55:56 PM EDT
even if it could, I'd be damn curious to what the concussion would do to your ear drums under water. Have you ever cracked two rocks together underwater? It makes a sharp painful sensation to your ears. At least thats what I remember happening when I was a kid. My cousin did it to me and I remember it vividly. After that I often wondered just how bad it would be if you discharged a firearm while you were under water.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 3:03:30 AM EDT
never, ever,,ever, never, ever...Absolutly never fire a gun under water!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 3:25:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:03:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:04:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By coltshorty14:
never, ever,,ever, never, ever...Absolutly never fire a gun under water!!!!!!!!!!





How'about if you have your earplugs in?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:21:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:12:00 AM EDT
I think you're on the right track there Aimless.

Talking strictly theory here; it should be possible IF the water fills every crevice of the weapon. Then you would have equal pressure against every surface. But if there were an air bubble somewhere that somewhere would have less pressure and could cause bad things to happen.

Remember, this is theory only. If you try this you are entirely on your own for any damages that may or may not occur. (this isn't aimed at you Aimless. Just anyother bozo that may give it a try.

Personally, I'd like to try it sometime. But I'd tie the gun to a concrete filled tire and stand WAAAAYYYY back with a string tied to the trigger. Cause you sure as shit ain't gonna' get me in the water with the thing.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:16:00 AM EDT
Actually you can fire under water as long as the barrel and chamber are all under the water so the pressure is equalized. The problem occurs when you stick the muzzle in the water with the chamber out of the water with unequal pressure. You will probably get a split barrel (at the least).

I have no idea what happens to your hearing. Maybe somebody with Navy Seal experience could tell us?????
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:40:39 AM EDT
I'd shoot This One under water.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:42:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 7:44:22 AM EDT by SouthernShark]
Ok guys, it's time to work on that GED you always wanted.

The "pressure" of air under water which is in contact with the water = Same Pressure as the Water. This is one reason why divers develop the bends.

Thank you.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 10:58:56 AM EDT
Dont forget that by being underwater that the powder burns at the same speeds but the bullet is severly slowed by the water in the barrel.

I think the primer would make 55,000 psi in that condition.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 1:39:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chromebolt:
Actually you can fire under water as long as the barrel and chamber are all under the water so the pressure is equalized. The problem occurs when you stick the muzzle in the water with the chamber out of the water with unequal pressure. You will probably get a split barrel (at the least).

I have no idea what happens to your hearing. Maybe somebody with Navy Seal experience could tell us?????



I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

I've always suspected that firing a gun not specifically designed to be fired underwater would result in a damaged barrel, regardless of whether or not the entire weapon is submerged or not. This being caused by bullet expansion as a result of friction with the water. I dunno though; if one of you is willing to volunteer a gun I'll perform the experiment.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:16:50 PM EDT
I don't think air in the barrel would be a problem underwater. The bullet will push all air or water out ahead of it. The action would be slowed down by the extra inertia of the water, but the gun should fire on auto.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:24:23 PM EDT
there was a webpage i saw once. if i cna find the link i will post it. they did some underwater tests.

It is possible. hollow points are a big no no.

Also, they determined that the sound of a gun is multiplies some 4 times underwater. so even earplugs won't help much. keep your head above the water.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 3:03:38 PM EDT
Forget water... how about space!?

I read a novel (Dirk Pitt series) in which they use rifles in space, including some AK-74s and an M-14.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 3:08:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJjer_Bullets:
Forget water... how about space!?

I read a novel (Dirk Pitt series) in which they use rifles in space, including some AK-74s and an M-14.



Talk about long range accuracy. Litte or no gravity, no drag, no windage, no ballistic curve....
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:21:21 PM EDT
Hey!!! Not trying to rob the thread, but when did Dirk Pitt go into space? I must have missed that one and I thought I had all of Clive Cusslers books.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:08:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SouthernShark:
Ok guys, it's time to work on that GED you always wanted.

The "pressure" of air under water which is in contact with the water = Same Pressure as the Water. This is one reason why divers develop the bends.

Thank you.



I think it's a density change issue, not pressure change. Ever jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:35:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 7:38:17 PM EDT by TheRealSundance]

Originally Posted By SouthernShark:
Ok guys, it's time to work on that GED you always wanted.

The "pressure" of air under water which is in contact with the water = Same Pressure as the Water. This is one reason why divers develop the bends.

Thank you.



not quite.
When we are living on dry land at sea level, the air around us has a pressure of 14.7 PSI (pounds per square inch), or 1 atmosphere. That is a "normal pressure" for our bodies. Because water is so heavy compared to air, it does not take much water to exert a lot of pressure. For example, a 1-inch by 1-inch column of water 33 feet high exerts another 14.7 PSI.

If you hold your breath and dive down 33 feet (10 meters), therefore, your lungs actually contract in size by a factor of two. They have to -- there is twice as much pressure around the air in your lungs, so they contract. When you rise back up the air expands again, so your lungs return to normal size.

The water does not compress, it is alway the same density and at the same pressure. The air is compressed and becomes more dense.


Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:07:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
who was that guy (on the board) that took his ak(?) into his swimming pool and fired a round?

yes. i can be done...but i sure as hell wouldn't do it.



He did fire a pistol or something in the pool, if I am remembering correctly. Didn't he also say he was peeing blood and sore for a week after?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:45:56 PM EDT
an LE friend of mine went throught the Glock Armorer course. he said part of it was firing a .45 glock underwater. he said the larger bore diameter vacated water easier than the 9mm. then again they are recoil operated, and the breach opens before the barrel pressure gets too high. the same thing would probably happen with a gas operated weapon also. as the bullet tavels down the barrel it is pushing a water column. that water column in turn travels up the gas port and starts operating the gas system. so, it is water not gas operating the gas system. this will open the chamber early letting out the excess pressure(bullet still in barrel when bolt opens). the key would to be to ensure the barrel and gas system are flooded. if the gas system is dry the bolt/chamber will not open early and you will get a pressure spike(air compresses, water does not) and prob bulged barrel.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:01:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
I'd shoot This One under water.


Or this www.hkpro.com/peleven.htm

CW
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:05:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJjer_Bullets:
Forget water... how about space!?

I read a novel (Dirk Pitt series) in which they use rifles in space, including some AK-74s and an M-14.


Unless they had some large radiator panels on them they wouldn't shoot for long. Not to mention the fact that you would need a hellacious attitude control system to keep you in place and oriented.

CW
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:26:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 5:05:48 AM EDT by presto99]
Air and water are both fluids. water is approx. 87 times as dense as air.
water is "semi-compressible" in a tank such as the pool mentioned above, the top of the water is at atmosphereic pressure. A 1 square inch column of water 2.31 feet tall weighs approx. 1 lb. at this scale the compression is negligible, but at 55,000 psi, the compressibility of water would become significant, possibly allowing the operation of the piston and preventing any damage to the gun.
That said I sure as hell wouldn't try it myself.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:04:54 PM EDT
There is no problem firing under water. With increased drag, the bullet won't go far. Biggest danger is that water transmits sound faster and further than air. Result would be burst ear drums...yours. Maybe some sinus/nasal destruction??? I doubt if ear plugs would work. Probably reason why seals know sign language. Russians have special underwater pistol that fires a bolt and is engineered to fire underwater but probably not to be used out of the water. Fishing with grenades is alot easier...
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:37:58 PM EDT
You guys are crazy. What happens if you seat a bullet too low and get a compressed load with a load thats not supposed to have one?


The pressure would get too too high too fast. I've seen someone shoot a .308 in a .270 and had the action look like a hollywood special effect.

A shotgun barrel will bulge if you even get a little snow in it. I've seen that shit happen first hand. The only action I'd even think about trying it in is blowback since its direct impingement of recoil forces.
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