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Posted: 1/2/2003 4:20:12 PM EDT
Hey guys,
I'm new to this AK thing and I have some questions.  The SAR1 seems to be a popular weapon for the money.  What kind of accuracy should I expect?  I have a Chinese SKS that will hardly group (maybe 4 inches at 100 yards on a good day).  Are the AK's capable of better accuracy than this?  I have a BAR in .270 that will shoot 1 1/8" groups @ 100 yds and a tricked out 10/22 that's almost a same hole shooter at 50 yds.  I think the AK would be fun to shoot but I am also considering a CETME in .308.  Any suggestions? Thanks,
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 5:01:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 5:06:25 PM EDT by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 5:11:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 5:46:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 5:46:49 PM EDT by KenR_RedStarArms]
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 6:45:49 PM EDT
Good SAR1 groups are 4", good SAR2 groups are 3", each 5 shots at 100 yds with 4x scope. You can get around 2" with a good Cetme, but they are almost all rebuilt from used parts. The parts vary, the builds vary. Getting a good AK is much easier. I have all 3, but spent months reading and looking at shows before I picked out a Cetme. A lot of work and some good luck went into mine. I like it but the SAR series is a much safer bet and all AK ammo is cheaper.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:18:23 AM EDT
 Yes, those AK battle sights.  Made to be seen in Hell but not for the kind of fine shootin' that's done off sand bags.
 There is hope though, they have a practice curve.  
 I had a PSO 1 on my SAR 1 for one trip to the range and the quick three round groups fired for zeroing were 2-3 inches.  A revelation.
But my son has hi-jacked the scope and it now sits on his SAR 2.  He was shooting at one of the steel groundhogs at Rio Salado range, it is a bit past 300 yards.  Got some hits but we have no paper group to report to you.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:35:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 1:59:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RotDorn:
That is some pretty neat info. What was the actual kill/bullet ratio in Vietnam? IIRC wasn't it something astronomical like 50,000:1? I seriously can't remember, but I thought it was a misprint when I read it.

Actually, the number is 100,000:1

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 8:03:47 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
I have heard the reason that number is so high because all 7.62NATO rounds are included in that tally.  Including the ones fired from helicopters and planes from M-60D's and GE Miniguns.


Where did you get that scan from?
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:23:10 PM EDT
 Running figure(profile) at 300 meters:
 One shot semi-auto.
 Pretty good marksmanship standard.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:57:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 5:57:39 AM EDT
Here's a couple of groups fired while sighting a SAR1 in yesterday at 50 yards. This is with open sights off a rest. My eyes aren't the best these days, so I would attribute the flyers to me, and not the gun. With a scope and tighter aiming point, I think they would definitly be a little tighter. I have a Krebs AK103K that will shoot groups that size at 100 yards, so AK's are more than capable, if you are.

Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:22:35 AM EDT
There are two problems as I see it with AK accuracy:  sights and ammo.   The stock sights suck for precision shooting, the 7.62x39 cartridge is not inherently accurate and neither is most of the ammunition made for it.   I shoot Wolf and Barnaul, but match grade ammo it ain't.
My experience is that if you scope an AK and use good quality ammo you can get 2" groups in 5.56 and 3-4" groups in 7.62x39.   Using iron sights and Wolf ammo you'll probably get 4 and 6 inch groups respectively.   Scoping an AK is a miserable process.   The Russian scopes and mounts tend to sit in very awkward positions and the Chinese mounts are flimsy things that replace the top cover.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 2:38:07 PM EDT
I will be the first to admit that AK's take a lot of undeserved shit for poor accuracy.  Just like the AR's take more shit than they deserve for their supposed lack of reliability.  The trth is the gulf is not as wide as some would make it to be.

I have milled reciever MAK-90 that with good norinco ball was shooting repeatable 1.5 MOA groups from a well sandbagged rest much to the astonishment of all around, myself included.

It has an angle cut reciever.  I really would like to trick it up but my options are limited.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 5:02:35 PM EDT
HeavyMetal, i think i have the cousin to your milled MAK 90.  I traded for it a couple of weeks ago NIB!  Took it to the range to see how she would react.   Man, it has the finest AK trigger i've ever fired and pops clays' off the berm at 50 yards mag after mag.  You would not believe some of the trades i was offered.  Mine is a keeper, i also have 4 SKS's and none of them come close to it. Mine may not do 1.5" but it is surprising at the range and targets i choose to at.  It is now my guick reaction weapon.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 5:55:47 PM EDT
The 7.62X39 is just not an acurate round by any standards or through any weapon, but is one hell of hard hitting plinker designed for rapid fire. Sub 4" at 100' at the ranges I frequent would be really good shooting.
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