Thank you for the thread and pictures.

Wow, thanks for all this info.

I'm assuming that the receiver is just the problem with the new yugo offerings and not the trunnions? Have you all had any issues with the new yugo trunnions with low round counts?

thanks for all the info.  

I had a "blast" when I went to battlefield this spring.  


Already have my list for the next trip planned out

Awesome and very informative thread!!

How high were the round counts for the Saigas when they failed?  Were they 7.62x39?  Did they fail sooner than the AKM designs?

Awesome thread!

HD, I appreciate your efforts. That goes a long way, IMO.

You don't post often HD, but when you do it's a goldmine of information.

Awesome thread.  Thanks!

(And note to self: get another WASR.  These guns are like the Rodney Dangerfield's of the AK world.)

We haven't lost a Saiga yet but to be fair, they don't get run to often. I stated in a previous post about customers that will only shoot a Russian weapon. Most of them are gamers (xBox, Playstaion, etc) but there are others who are history buffs that just want to shoot a "real Russian AK".

I did forget that we do have some full-auto VEPR's that have held up. They are the VEPR-12 shotguns that we post sampled for a specific military demonstration because they couldn't acquire factory VEPR-12 MG's within the time period they needed. They weren't the easiest to convert to full-auto but they run flawlessly and we never had to touch the gas system. It runs on almost any ammo except for frangible 00 buckshot. We only use the factory five-round mags because no matter how much we try to prepare customers for the recoil, they don't understand until they are off target and aiming at our baffles. Five rounds will usually get the shooter to the bottom of the overhead baffles down range. It gives them a good experience with five rounds and we don't abuse our baffles. The VEPR-12's get used everyday but nothing like a regular AK.

V/R
Ron

Thank you for posting this thread! One of the best reads here in a while.

It is indeed! Are you guys going to acquire a large caliber gun/tank gun? I see you've been getting your hands on some armor, hope you can clean up that Sherman one day!

Great info OP, thanks for sharing.

How quickly the WASRs go from bottom-of-the-barrel status to respectable weapons you can count on.  Guess its time to get a WASR.

I apologize if I got slightly off topic here but yes, we are in the middle acquiring larger calibers. We already have M203's, M79 GL, M4 60m mortar and a Mk19 40mm GL. We have two Abbott SPG's that we plan on restoring (registered DD's of course) and our "M1 Abrams". The "Abrams" is actually a British Chieftain Mk10 that was modded for the movie Courage Under Fire (one of three for the movie).

We just purchased 162 acres of land only twenty minutes away from the Las Vegas Strip where customers will be able to drive the "Abrams", APC's, the Abboot SPG's, HMMWV's and the Sherman we are currently restoring. There's so much in the works but I don't want to upset folks with straying to far off topic.

BTW... the Sherman is currently being restored. The picture of it complete is the "before" picture and the others are from the past two weeks.

Here are some pics of what we've been up to...

Place looks awesome!

Hope those armored vehicles use Liberal tears as fuel

Where does one find a Sherman these days? LOL

From the looks of it, from a military firing range.

Very cool. Driving those would be a riot

We have used them but we have no real way to measure their effectiveness. If we would have placed one in two identical weapons at the same time and checked the weapon for wear that would have been a good gauge. Also, they do get chewed up pretty well but is that because that material shouldn't be in there in the first place?

V/R
Ron

They don't.

If your rifle is overgassed, they do. , unless it won't function with it in, then, they don't.

Every factory built AK is overgassed, and buffers are still a waste of money. Gave up on them early on in my AK "career".

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

I used them for quite a while early on in my AK building. I ran some with and without along side each other and the only difference I could see being made was that the recoil impulse of the "buffered" rifle was sharper due to the carrier's travel being limited. I even went so far as to build a "Khyber" type AKM with a clipped recoil spring so that the carrier would slam into the rear trunnion every shot. What happened was that the trunnion deformed slightly up until a point and then stopped, at which point the rifle kept on ticking. On the other hand, when the buffers broke apart they caused malfunctions. Not every time, but enough for it to not be worth it.

Now if HD were to install them in their rental guns and they show that they do in fact lengthen the life of their rifles, I would readily admit I was wrong and give them another shot. However, I would pose that if they were that effective that they'd be included in every commercial AK sold in the US in order to cut down the possibilities of warranty work. But again, my personal test sample could be misleading me, but I highly doubt it.

Except the average person doesn't shoot enough for it to make a difference. I would call your experiences inconclusive. Except for causing malfunctions. I agree there; I would never use a buffer on a weapon I depended on.

Then why use one at all?

ETA: That's not directly meant for you to answer solely, but more of an overall question as to their use.

 
To shoot thousands and thousands of rounds and hopefully extend the life of the receiver. I have a lot of firearms I wouldn't depend on. Besides, a buffer takes 3 seconds to remove.

Well more power to you then. I have been contemplating doing more formalized testing to see if buffers really do make a difference, but I'm not sure when I'll get around to it. If I do I'll be sure to post it.

I've been considering it as well. Like HD said, it would be two identical guns one with buffer and one with out. Also a pile of about 30,000 rounds.

 

Interesting

I am going to be in Vegas bext week I hope I have the time to stop in!  Thanks for the informative thread good reading loved the info!

Thanks For some interesting reading HD,  Do you happen to have any Egyptian Maadi's? I have been curious how they would hold up.

Very cool! Look forward to perusing your rentals on my honeymoon in October, the Mrs. is very much on board! Keep the Bren up and running for me

I get what everyone us saying but I can't see how it can't help even just a little. It softens the blow on the back if the reciever. Besides I don't think I'll shoit enough to tear one up :)

Entire threads have been done on buffers.

I want to see more abused guns and tanks. How much $ is 1 round for a tank?

The truth is that buffers accomplish the mission for which they were designed.
Unfortunately, that mission is to separate the purchaser from his money.

We have one factory Maadi on the line and I try to keep it in the vault. It was in mint condition when it arrived but now looks like it's been through two Arab Springs

V/R
Ron

Ron,

Are you running any AKs with US made barrels on the line? Would be curious how they hold up at high round counts.

Have anything in 9x39?

VSS or VAL?

We put three of the original milled C39's on the line when they first came out and they have all been pulled because the barrels keyhole. We might try some of the new nitride barrels and see how they hold up.

V/R
Ron

Great thread. When I get back to Vagas I am stopping by for sure

What sort of cleaning/maintenance do you guys do?

Frequency, method of cleaning, method of lubrication, etc... curious what works best for extremely high round count guns.

This thread... is awesome.

I was thinking about getting a N-pap DF but I changed my mind, now I want a WASR. Thanks HD

Each weapon has it's own maintenance log that records the last cleaning, who cleaned it, headspace and any parts that required replacing. The weapons, depending on model and volume on the range, are cleaned every 2-7 days. The MP5 SD's are the dirtiest of the weapons and the M-134 "miniguns" are probably the cleanest.

Because we are a business, we have several things we have to take into consideration. The cleaners and lubricants have to be safe and non-toxic for the employees to handle on a daily basis. Our ultrasonic tank is filled with Simple Green that a waste disposal company has no problem picking up. We were limited to what types of fluids they will dispose of and Simple Green was the best for employee safety and it can be picked and disposed of without concerns. One problem with ultrasonic cleaners (and I don't know if this is a Simple Green effect) is that copper deposits from barrels will re-deposit it self on any metal parts that sit to long in the solution. I once pulled out a MG42 top cover that looked like somebody plated it with dull copper because it was left in the tank over night.

As stated above, depending on the weapon, they get cleaned every 2-7 days. Weapons are inspected every morning and afternoon and that's also when they are lubed. We use Slip 2000 on all of our weapons. It's safe, non-toxic and keeps the weapons running properly. We keep a MSDS log of all the cleaning items within arms reach because of the OSHA and the Health District. They have both done inspections at our range and we haven't had a problem by following the rules. BTW, we even have to keep MSDS' on every type of round that we have inventory

I know some folks REALLY think that "their" brand of lubes and cleaners are the best but I can tell you that, in OUR experience, they have all worked about the same. When we first opened the range, we weren't up to speed on all the issues with OSHA, EPA and the Health District because we were relatively small. We used what we could afford and we spent more (what I felt was more than we needed) on some of the different lubes and cleaners that everybody raves about. We can't afford to just keep adding lube to guns and seeing how long it can go without cleaning like so many people do online. We have to maintain our weapons and a dirty weapon doesn't help with reliability. In fact, my oldest son (who works at our retail gun store) brags about he hasn't cleaned his M4 in over a year because the lube works so good. There's a reason he doesn't work at the range or maintain any of our weapons. He reads BS online and our range is far from a kid shooting 300-400 rounds once a month or so.

We've had plenty of rep's stop by and provide us with free samples and provide demonstrations (one even licked their product to show us it was "safe") but at the end of the day, it's about what works, how easy is it to dispose of and will OSHA or EPA have any issues with it.

BTW, I do suffer from a bit of dyslexia and sometimes when I'm typing, words and sentences look correct, even after proof-reading so if you see an edit, it's because I probably noticed a typo after the 7th time of reading it

V/R
Ron  

What about DDI AK 47?

I'm trying to decide if I want Wasr-10 or DDI stamped or milled ak 47...  

Your post gave me hope for Wasr-10.

I've always heard Simple Green and aluminum parts were bad juju. We have a couple of ultrasonic cleaners at our shop (we do Cerakote on small and OEM levels) and we've stayed away from Simple green for that reason. I'm assuming you've  had no issues with it?