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Posted: 4/29/2004 4:42:29 PM EST
I went out to do some chores today and, as I sometimes do, I brought along my SEAK incase I saw some rabbits or coyotes. Anyway, on the way back to my house I ran across a rabbit about 10 feet away. I felt sorry for it and shot the ground next to it to make it run. It didn't. 7 more shots around it and overall the little thing moved about 25 feet. So I decided to take him out for being so stupid.

One shot, ~60 feet, BLAM! Got him.

I went over to inspect the damage and I was amazed. That round really messed him up. I hit him in his thigh and needless to say, he got substantially torn up. I am used to the steel 7.62's just going right through things but this 5.45 must have really tumbled upon impact. I now have quite a bit more respect for the round in general.

Link Posted: 4/29/2004 4:52:50 PM EST
The exact thing happened to me! Except it was with a .30-06 bolt gun and I only fired two shots around the rabbit. .30 SP: The Natural Selector.

The funny thing about rabbits though, is in the morning they'll run away at first sight and never be seen again. At the end of the day they'll let you get close and harass them. I think the heat makes them sluggish, here in South Texas anyway.
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 5:02:32 PM EST
Yeah this was at dusk and I swear to God this rabbit was not at all frightened by either me or the gun going off right next to it.

You would think that 8-9 shots blowing up the soft ground next to you would induce you to move farther away.


The Natural Selector.

Indeed.
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 5:05:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:
At the end of the day they'll let you get close and harass them. I think the heat makes them sluggish, here in South Texas anyway.



Rabitts are living active creatures just like us.. I know I don't have much energy at the end of the day..

Especially if I hop everywere I go..hehehe
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 5:09:08 PM EST
I'm telling PETA.
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 5:10:48 PM EST
It is a bad ass round....
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 5:28:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
I'm telling PETA.




People Eating Tasty Animals
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 7:42:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By coltshorty14:

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
I'm telling PETA.




People Eating Tasty Animals


LoL.
Link Posted: 4/29/2004 8:51:06 PM EST
If a Rabbit doesn't move when you shoot at it several times, I think that means he's not scared to die, and that it would be pointless to kill him. Hippy mode off.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 2:18:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 9:59:15 AM EST
5.45 is a hell of a round. Much better than most people think. SP and HP 5.45 ammo is useless and only on the american market. This round only performs well when loaded with properly made FMJ bullets.

It's got the velocity of .223, and better Ballistic coeficient than your basic .223 ball.

Properly made FMJ: lead or steel core, anything that doesn't come with an armor piercing penetrator tip, has a small (actually pretty big) air pocket in the front of the bullet.

This does two things:
One, upon impact, the tip of the bullet is crushed and bends to the side.
This combined with Two: with the lead in the back, all the weight of the bullet is on the back. This means that once the tip bends, it tumbles like crazy.
You've heard of .22LR being called the snake charmer? This stuff reliably goes in spirals through soft matter.
Having read some accounts, and talked to a few guys who carried AK-74's(in combat, all from Iran-Iraq war), it's quite common to see a guy shot in the chest, with the bullet comming out of an extremity such as an arm or leg. Same goes visa versa, people being shot in the leg and winding up with massive organ damage.

Most of the complaints you hear are from guys from chechnya who use solid-cored ammo (mostly AP) on people.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 10:02:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
be very careful with the 5.45 round.

it does do great amounts of damge in proportion to its' size and power. it also will ricochet wildly...more so than other rounds that i shoot. shooting in the dirt only 10' away could be an invitation to bleed.


Sounds like good advice.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 10:19:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
be very careful with the 5.45 round.

it does do great amounts of damge in proportion to its' size and power. it also will ricochet wildly...more so than other rounds that i shoot. shooting in the dirt only 10' away could be an invitation to bleed.



I've seen them skid off at near right-angles when they strike water at a shallow angle.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 11:34:27 AM EST
Might want to be careful. The other rabbits may want retribution and declare Jihad. Expect terrorist attacks on any garden or plantlife you may be keeping.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 12:27:31 PM EST
The 5.45 was developed as the foundation of the much vaunted Moscow ABM system during The Cold War: Hoards of conscripts were to be deployed, and while lying on their backs armed with AK-74s, they were supposed to engage incoming MIRVs.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 12:32:03 PM EST
Damn you f*cked up the meat ,never shoot a rabbit in the ass end .
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:41:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By coltshorty14:

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
I'm telling PETA.




People Eating Tasty Animals



'Cept it don't sound like there was much left to eat.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 4:12:16 PM EST

Might want to be careful. The other rabbits may want retribution and declare Jihad. Expect terrorist attacks on any garden or plantlife you may be keeping.

Too late. They had already declared it everything in the garden. My dog injured his foot last week and for all of last week, he was unable to chase them. After a while, they got brazen enough to eat grass right in the backyard not 20 feet from him because I think they knew he was injured.


Damn you f*cked up the meat ,never shoot a rabbit in the ass end.

Well I wasn't exactly aiming for that section. It just happens that he was in some mid-calf-high grass and that was where the bullet hit him. Besides, fighting the grass and the SEAK's iron sights, I could barely see him at all.


'Cept it don't sound like there was much left to eat.

No there wasn't. The round entered his left ass cheek and completely blew out the back right hip. He felt no pain. Especially after my I called over my dog and he crunched on its backcone.



Hope I did not upset any rabbit people just then.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:20:11 PM EST
B.S.

B.F.S., in fact.

Why does everyone think this round is so impressive? No matter what type of bullet you select, it still has only 1100 ft lbs or so of energy.

If you guys are impressed that it blew apart in a rabbit, you'd better hope the bad guys don't hide behind rabbits when they come after you.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:02:32 PM EST
P-dog, are you volunteering to hide behind a rabbit for an effectivness test?
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:45:58 PM EST
soup can, 308, tidy holes on each side

soup can, 545, blown out back side

repeat with a variety of items and past-due grocery meat

Energy Delivery
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:05:43 PM EST
RS39 is on the money. The fact that the 5.45 round tumbles so much more (due to an air poscket in the bullet) is what impressed me the most.

For example, a rabbit hit with a 7.62x39 FMJ went right in and out. Decent hole on the other side.

The 5.45x39 on the other hand completely blew out the right hip of the animal. That was what impressed me.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:32:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:24:42 PM EST
Add full cans of soup to the list of things to hide behind when you're being shot at with a 5.45...
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:53:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By p-dog:
Add full cans of soup to the list of things to hide behind when you're being shot at with a 5.45...



You missed the point entirely.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:04:28 PM EST
Some people just don't get it.

Some people still think the 9mm has better stopping power than a .45acp.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:30:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 7:01:53 PM EST by MRW]
The 5.45 is what makes a very short barreled rifle perform, like the krink.

The question is what method is used to transfer the bullet's energy, not necessarily how much energy it has. A lot of energy does no good if it is not transfered to the target, like the 308 on the soup can. That bullet retained most of its energy after passing through the can.

Large calibers like 308, 30-06, 7.62x39, etc, rely on thier large size and therefore more contact with tissue to deploy their energy. Soft points of course can be used to enhance the bullet's size upon impact.

The 5.56/223 round relies upon high velocity and a cannelured bullet to transfer its energy. On impact at a specific velocity or higher, the bullet will deform / fragment at the cannelure and transfer its energy to the target. If the bullet impacts the target at UNDER a minimum velocity (2500 fps I believe), then it functions as a small icepick and does not transfer its energy as well. This is currently being seen in the problem the armed forces are having with short barreled M4 rifles firing heavy bullets. The combination makes for a very short effective range before the bullet looses too much velocity. A super short barreled 223 is very ineffective save at very close distances (read: room distance)

the 5.45 relies upon the aforementioned bullet design to transfer its energy, and does NOT rely on muzzle velocity. 5.45 seems to perform well at very low vleocities, and therefore makes the perfect canidate for a super short barreled rifle, which cannot accelerate the bullet to high velocities.

I had a friend with a legal NFA 223 krink, and I thought "what a waste, but a 5.45 would be a contender"

IMHO the 5.45 is a superior defensive (not target) round to 223/5.56 based on its superior energy performance at a wide range of velocities.

I think a 5.45 krinkov is the perfect personal defense weapon, even if it was semi-auto only.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:46:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 1:47:23 PM EST by M4_Aiming_at_U]


I will repeat this until every member has heard it just to prove the 5.45 round is amazing.

The round went through the steel rear cargo area of SUV, into the gas tank yawed upwards out of gas tank went through the backseat steel floor into the rear seat and fragmented heavily into the cushion.

One bad fucking bullet that I never want to be in front of!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 4:56:02 PM EST
Anyone check if this performance occurs with all versions of this cartridge or is this unique to the FMJ with frontal airspace, like wolf or barnaul? I understand barnaul comes in a few different boxes like RAM and" blue sky".
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 5:30:22 PM EST
This performance IS particular to the properly made FMJ (with the air pocket). Solid tipped AP is good only on armor (comprable to .223 AP), and the rest (HP/SP) are only good for keeping it legal while hunting in most of this country (where FMJ ist verboten for hunting), and nothing else (accuracy and reliability [feed] are also inferior to that of the FMJ).

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:56:04 PM EST
BTW, common Wolf FMJ 5.45 has the desireable air pocket tip with a lead core...

stock up!
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:26:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By jor-el:
Anyone check if this performance occurs with all versions of this cartridge or is this unique to the FMJ with frontal airspace, like wolf or barnaul? I understand barnaul comes in a few different boxes like RAM and" blue sky".



All FMJ I have seen for sale here has the airpocket, except the Ulyonsk 70gr which is has not been imported for a few years.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:48:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 6:05:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
Some people just don't get it.

Some people still think the 9mm has better stopping power than a .45acp.



[hijack mode] If the choice is between say a ranger sxt 9 mm or whatever the top rated bullet in 9mm is and a fmj 45, I'll take the 9 [hijack mode(notreally) off]

Link Posted: 5/6/2004 6:24:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
this needs repeated...AGAIN!

I will repeat this until every member has heard it just to prove the 5.45 round is amazing.

The round went through the steel rear cargo area of SUV, into the gas tank yawed upwards out of gas tank went through the backseat steel floor into the rear seat and fragmented heavily into the cushion.

One bad fucking bullet that I never want to be in front of!



I thought you were joking. I've found 5.45 lead core to have lousy penetration throuth steel.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 7:48:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
this needs repeated...AGAIN!

I will repeat this until every member has heard it just to prove the 5.45 round is amazing.

The round went through the steel rear cargo area of SUV, into the gas tank yawed upwards out of gas tank went through the backseat steel floor into the rear seat and fragmented heavily into the cushion.

One bad fucking bullet that I never want to be in front of!



I thought you were joking. I've found 5.45 lead core to have lousy penetration throuth steel.



Nope, I need to get pics. No Digi camrea though.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:49:43 PM EST
Yeah pics would be nice.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:10:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
this needs repeated...AGAIN!

I will repeat this until every member has heard it just to prove the 5.45 round is amazing.

The round went through the steel rear cargo area of SUV, into the gas tank yawed upwards out of gas tank went through the backseat steel floor into the rear seat and fragmented heavily into the cushion.

One bad fucking bullet that I never want to be in front of!



I thought you were joking. I've found 5.45 lead core to have lousy penetration throuth steel.



Nope, I need to get pics. No Digi camrea though.



Where are you in MD? I have a very nice Digi cam. 3.8 megapixel oughta capture enough of the violence.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:31:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
this needs repeated...AGAIN!

I will repeat this until every member has heard it just to prove the 5.45 round is amazing.

The round went through the steel rear cargo area of SUV, into the gas tank yawed upwards out of gas tank went through the backseat steel floor into the rear seat and fragmented heavily into the cushion.

One bad fucking bullet that I never want to be in front of!



I thought you were joking. I've found 5.45 lead core to have lousy penetration throuth steel.



Nope, I need to get pics. No Digi camrea though.



Where are you in MD? I have a very nice Digi cam. 3.8 megapixel oughta capture enough of the violence.



I live in Pasadena, but work in Annapolis.
If you are in the area, feel free to stop by and take some pics.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:45:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 1:49:34 PM EST by Pave]

Originally Posted By Pave:
The 5.45 was developed as the foundation of the much vaunted Moscow ABM system during The Cold War: Hoards of conscripts were to be deployed, and while lying on their backs armed with AK-74s, they were supposed to engage incoming MIRVs.



ahhhhh...... so quoted......it's a commie POS round notable only in the light of the weapon of a vanquished foe...kinda' like me being told 5.56 was better than 7.62x51........well, OK, it was,, but in my aircrew behind the lines, all I had was what I could carry, and all I had (Since I was the cavalry coming to the rescue....oooops, doesn't "fit" does it?) was what was tied to me, I had more rounds (yeah, that counted, since "I" was the "resupply", yeah-right)

The bottom-line was, and is, "how many can you drop, and how reliably"? That, my friend is the root of the never-ending-debate of those who have never been been in combat and "get the facts" from the "internet"...if I can drop you, I can give you a point blank follow-up....THAT never seems to make the "reviews"....oooops! toooooo real? Like Joe Friday said; Just the facts mam,.......maybe it's too politically incorrect.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:57:05 PM EST
M4,

I'll bring a camera to the next shoot and will rip that backseat out and take some pictures.


Maybe it's that cheap Jap steel?
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:59:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 2:00:39 PM EST by TheRealSundance]

Originally Posted By danonly:

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
Some people just don't get it.

Some people still think the 9mm has better stopping power than a .45acp.



[hijack mode] If the choice is between say a ranger sxt 9 mm or whatever the top rated bullet in 9mm is and a fmj 45, I'll take the 9 [hijack mode(notreally) off]




OK. I'll take the round designed to knock down drugged up islanders and keep them down. And the round the SEALs when back to after using the 9mm.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 2:34:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By RS39:

Originally Posted By jor-el:
Anyone check if this performance occurs with all versions of this cartridge or is this unique to the FMJ with frontal airspace, like wolf or barnaul? I understand barnaul comes in a few different boxes like RAM and" blue sky".



All FMJ I have seen for sale here has the airpocket, except the Ulyonsk 70gr which is has not been imported for a few years.



I did'nt know they havent imported Uly in a few year's...I bought some just a month ago...I may put it aside then..
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 7:03:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
M4,

I'll bring a camera to the next shoot and will rip that back-seat out and take some pictures.




No need to "rip" it out. It is supposed to come out.



Maybe it's that cheap Jap steel?



incorrect. My Xterra was 100% made in USA (Kentucky and Tennessee) with American parts by American hands!

Link Posted: 5/7/2004 4:46:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
this needs repeated...AGAIN!

I will repeat this until every member has heard it just to prove the 5.45 round is amazing.

The round went through the steel rear cargo area of SUV, into the gas tank yawed upwards out of gas tank went through the backseat steel floor into the rear seat and fragmented heavily into the cushion.

One bad fucking bullet that I never want to be in front of!



I thought you were joking. I've found 5.45 lead core to have lousy penetration throuth steel.



Nope, I need to get pics. No Digi camrea though.



Where are you in MD? I have a very nice Digi cam. 3.8 megapixel oughta capture enough of the violence.



I live in Pasadena, but work in Annapolis.
If you are in the area, feel free to stop by and take some pics.



I'm picking up my bike from the bike shop tonight. A day trip up there might be in order for some pics.


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