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Link Posted: 12/3/2020 3:24:50 PM EST
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Quoted:


What is your idea of a full conversion? Because I'm talking about milling the bottom of the locking lugs shorter to allow an AK74 spec mag to rock in unmodified. I considered doing it at one point with an end mill but decided it didn't make much sense when modding mags was not as irreversible.
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My idea of a full conversion is to make it compatible with all the standard military and aftermarket parts/accessories, this includes magazines. Milling the bottom of the trunnion for clearance to allow the use of the proper magazines is included in my idea of a full conversion. I can understand modifying magazines instead, I just like the idea of being able to snag any Russian/Bulgarian/Polish/etc. compatible 5.56 AK mag and using it without modification.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 3:31:38 PM EST
Friends got a 5.56 AK but the mags are shit. Can those be found somewhere?
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 3:42:13 PM EST
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Quoted:




Aesthetically, I've always thought adding an AR magazine magwell makes AK's look awful.
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count me as one of those who  believe the same as you, when it comes to that. I will also go as far to say that adding all those  after market accessories turns  the AK into a "clown gun"  the same as a AR
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 5:02:55 PM EST
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Quoted:


count me as one of those who  believe the same as you, when it comes to that. I will also go as far to say that adding all those  after market accessories turns  the AK into a "clown gun"  the same as a AR
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Agreed. The bigger problem when adding unnecessary and overly complex accessories is the increased possibility of failure. I am hopeful KUSA will deliver a unit with standard 556 AK mags at some point in the future. I truly hope the other American makers will do the same.  
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 8:24:25 PM EST
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Quoted:
Friends got a 5.56 AK but the mags are shit. Can those be found somewhere?
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what kind of AK does he have?
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 8:34:39 PM EST
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Quoted:


Agreed. The bigger problem when adding unnecessary and overly complex accessories is the increased possibility of failure.
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yep, if you go with all  the "snake oil" parts that manufacturers claim to make the rifle shoot better.  but  it's all those  add on accessories  just makes the rifle heavier then it needs to be.

which is what has happened to the AR.......... take a 7lb rifle add all the worthless aftermarket trash to it, now that weapon,  which  was designed to be light weight, isn't. it's as heavy as the M1 Garand, or in some cases weights  more then a M1,  but isn't  as reliable
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 1:58:01 AM EST
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Quoted:



what kind of AK does he have?
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Think it's a Norinco his dad got 30+ years ago
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 6:18:47 AM EST
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Quoted:


Gross.  If I wanted to use some weird AR mag adapter, I'd just use an AR.
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Exactly
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 8:55:35 AM EST
Saiga .223 here. While I prefer .30 cal projectiles, who knows what the future holds for ammo availability? I like some variety in my collection so I’ve got ARs chambered in 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 9mm & 6.5Grendel and AKs in 5.56 & 9mm. And yes, three AKs in 7.62x39.

Although today, if you just want a longer reaching cartridge, a 6.5Grendel AK makes more sense, with CSSPECS mags now. Was hoping Zastava was gonna import that, so far no dice.

Choosing which 5,56 AK platform is the hardest. An AR mag adaptor makes the most sense, I just don’t care for them.

Link Posted: 12/4/2020 9:37:17 AM EST
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Quoted:


Think it's a Norinco his dad got 30+ years ago
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well, the PRO-MAG .223 AK mag works in the 84s................yes, I know what you're saying  PRO-MAG, YUCK!!!! .

but hey, sometimes they get it right,  I took a chance of buying the PRO-MAG HK33 mag to see if that would work in my VECTOR 53, and at 11 or 13 bucks per mag at the time it is was worth the chance to see if it did work, beats paying 80 or 90 bucks for one HK 20 round factory mag.

so to my happy surprise, it did work perfectly, . now, I did have to widen the mag catch on the mag just  tiny bit so that the mag locked up tight.........but that wasn't a big deal. ............so the choice was to either spend  77-91 bucks and get  7-PRO-MAG HK33 mags or spending 80-90 bucks to have just one HK factory mag. the choice was a easy one for me to make

anyway, here is video made last year of a guy testing out the PRO_MAG in his 84

Link Posted: 12/4/2020 9:42:06 AM EST
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Quoted:


Think it's a Norinco his dad got 30+ years ago
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The Chinese 5.56 AKs only work with the Chinese mags, they are proprietary. Definitely the worst 5.56 AK option out there in that regard.

Edit: Forgot about the Promags as mentioned above, but I have had such horrible experiences with them that I don't consider them to exist.
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 3:33:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 6:06:15 PM EST
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Quoted:


They will take AR mags.

Thanks,

Josiah
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@PalmettoStateArmory

Any plans to do a straight 5.56 AK down the road, that takes actual 5.56 AK mags?
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 6:39:59 PM EST
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Quoted:


Edit: Forgot about the Promags as mentioned above, but I have had such horrible experiences with them that I don't consider them to exist.
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I to had horrible experience with PRO-MAG but when I read several people on the HKPRO board say it works in their HK33 guns, I said WTF I'll roll the dice

so with a video showing it works as well as the 100+ dollar Chinese  84 magazine, it's really a no brainer on what to buy.
Link Posted: 12/6/2020 12:50:38 AM EST
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Quoted:


They will take AR mags.

Thanks,

Josiah
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Link Posted: 12/6/2020 12:09:02 PM EST
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Quoted:


I to had horrible experience with PRO-MAG but when I read several people on the HKPRO board say it works in their HK33 guns, I said WTF I'll roll the dice

so with a video showing it works as well as the 100+ dollar Chinese  84 magazine, it's really a no brainer on what to buy.
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I bought some back in the day and ran them in my Saiga. The front tab will break off with a serious jolt. That being said if you buy bunches of them and they work, who cares? You got spares
Link Posted: 12/7/2020 5:17:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/8/2020 9:40:14 AM EST
Well, a excellent gun in 556 - and it’s an AK - is the Romanian SAR-3 rifle.  

They seem to have been discontinued, but I’m sure there are plenty to buy still out there if you looked (I haven’t)

Get the SAR 3!  You won’t be disappointed!
Link Posted: 12/8/2020 1:42:17 PM EST
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Quoted:
Well, a excellent gun in 556 - and it’s an AK - is the Romanian SAR-3 rifle.  

They seem to have been discontinued, but I’m sure there are plenty to buy still out there if you looked (I haven’t)

Get the SAR 3!  You won’t be disappointed!
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yeah, they are good............I wouldn't call them  excellent, finish and workmanship has a lot to be desire, poor would be my choice to call it.

the SAR series were plagued with canted sights,  gas blocks, but they worked. the SAR 3 I bought  back 03, had a canted gas block, the piston rubbed against the inside of the gas block, but it soon work itself  in .........that one  was the best in the lot, the rest of the dealer's stock had canted front sights along canted gas blocks, in varying degrees. at least the front sight on the one I picked was straight and the canted gas block wasn't too bad.........for something like 190 bucks, I wasn't going to kick up a fuss....it is what it is, a cheap and  bottom of barrel AK at the time


Link Posted: 12/8/2020 2:39:18 PM EST
The SAR-2 was my first AK, SAR-1 the second.  I like the crude no-nonsense nature of the Romanian guns.  Century was teasing earlier this year they were going to bring back the WASR-3.  As nice as the 7.62 WASRs have been in the last few years, it would likely have been a good rifle.  Definitely need to bring in a yuuuuge number magazines though, the East German mags have become pretty pricey.

I'm sure 2020 has derailed all of that now from multiple angles.

I'm not totally against the AR mag in the AK.  I prefer traditional AK-style mags, but you can make them look pretty good:

Link Posted: 12/9/2020 1:11:05 AM EST
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Quoted:
Well, a excellent gun in 556 - and it’s an AK - is the Romanian SAR-3 rifle.  

They seem to have been discontinued, but I’m sure there are plenty to buy still out there if you looked (I haven’t)

Get the SAR 3!  You won’t be disappointed!
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One on GunBroker right now (not mine) going for about $850 as of now.
Link Posted: 12/10/2020 11:55:44 PM EST
Attachment Attached File

Galil Ace is a good option. Modernized AK in 556 that takes cheap mags.
Link Posted: 12/11/2020 1:40:47 PM EST
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Quoted:


yeah, they are good............I wouldn't call them  excellent, finish and workmanship has a lot to be desire, poor would be my choice to call it.

the SAR series were plagued with canted sights,  gas blocks, but they worked. the SAR 3 I bought  back 03, had a canted gas block, the piston rubbed against the inside of the gas block, but it soon work itself  in .........that one  was the best in the lot, the rest of the dealer's stock had canted front sights along canted gas blocks, in varying degrees. at least the front sight on the one I picked was straight and the canted gas block wasn't too bad.........for something like 190 bucks, I wasn't going to kick up a fuss....it is what it is, a cheap and  bottom of barrel AK at the time

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1715/11951772/21243212/414030380.jpg
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Agreed. I bought my SAR 3 around 03 also. Definately pre-ban. The piston rod was crudely welded on and canted. The importer probably had to permanently "attach" enough US made parts to get it imported. A few smacks with a hammer got is "straight". It's very roughly made and doesnt inspire confidence on looks. But the thing shoots great and is about as accurate as my IMI Galil. The mags were a problem though until I found the German Weiger (sp?) mags and also Bulgy Circle 10 mags. Standard AK74 mags work as long as only loaded with about 20 rounds. I'm hoping the German and Bulgarian mags work in the ZPAP85 I just ordered...
Link Posted: 12/11/2020 5:35:09 PM EST
I forgot to say, the other  2  big, big problem with them is that  CENTURY replace the trigger group with a US made one.........which was no problem with the trigger and disconnector but the face of the hammer was not correct geometry, it stuck the back of the bolt as a angle, and not square. causing the back of bolt to deform and in the long run would cause misfiring. plus it had a hell of a "finger slap".

easy fix for that, is what I did, I bought the original SAR 3 trigger group, from CENTURY, no less and replaced it................never had one bit of a "trigger slap" and the hammer hit the back of the bolt square and true.

as for mag, yeah the WEIGER works great in them, but if you change out the 5.45 follower with a 5.56 follower then those E-German mags that came with the SAR3 will work great, you can fill them to 30 rounds with no issues of feeding . ROBINSON ARMS use to sell those 5.56 AK followers, back in the day for like 5-6 bucks...........I hear that someone else is going to making 5.56 followers just like the ROBINSON ARMS were

another mag that will work, are the TAPCO GOLINI/GALIL ones, those also work great in mine and my SLR106.   it's weird but the metal surplus isreali GALIL mags won't

Link Posted: 12/12/2020 2:18:20 PM EST
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Quoted:


This is correct.

Aesthetically, I've always thought adding an AR magazine magwell makes AK's look awful. Functionally, adding unnecessary and nonstandard parts seems like a problem as well. Hopefully companies will listen...

Speaking of which, I always wondered why IWI didn't do an ACE with the original galil magazine for US customers.
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My guess is that IWI figured that the market for a rifle that uses harder to get, more expensive, and heavier magazines wouldn't be as popular as a rifle that uses the most common rifle magazine in the US.  The ACE isn't a traditional looking AK anyway so it doesn't suffer, IMO, from the same esthetic hit AKs that use AR mags take.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 3:54:53 PM EST
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Quoted:
ROBINSON ARMS use to sell those 5.56 AK followers, back in the day for like 5-6 bucks...........I hear that someone else is going to making 5.56 followers just like the ROBINSON ARMS were

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Unfortunately the place that was supposedly having new robarm style followers made appears to have fallen off the face of the earth in the last few months.  They may have cut and run.  Sucks because I was really looking forward to getting a few.

Honestly at this point what needs to happen is someone with an original robarm follower should make a cad file of it and that way anyone can 3D print their own.  I may do it myself if I can get my hands on an original.

Alternately you can always mod 5.45 followers yourself.  Numrich still sells NOS 5.45 followers and it's not too hard to build up a ramp on top with epoxy that mimics the robarm style.  I wouldn't trust them for hard use, but then again I really just want a couple so I can make my 5.56 krink kinda look like a 5.45 one when I feel like it.  Goes well with laminated russian furniture.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 4:05:42 PM EST
@ITCHY-FINGER, I just shot my new ZPAP M85 the other day.  I used the factory steel mag, Circle 10, and AC Unity 556 mags.  All of them functioned without a hitch.  I've got a dozen Weiger mags for my "Galil-ish" Saiga converstion.  I have no doubt I could easily do some minor filing to make them fit in the M85 (they have about a fraction of an inch of travel more to do before they "click"), but with so many other mags that will work in this thing I'm hesitant to start hacking on $60 mags that I know work 100% in the rifle I have them for...
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 6:11:09 PM EST
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Quoted:
@ITCHY-FINGER, I just shot my new ZPAP M85 the other day.  I used the factory steel mag, Circle 10, and AC Unity 556 mags.  All of them functioned without a hitch.  I've got a dozen Weiger mags for my "Galil-ish" Saiga converstion.  I have no doubt I could easily do some minor filing to make them fit in the M85 (they have about a fraction of an inch of travel more to do before they "click"), but with so many other mags that will work in this thing I'm hesitant to start hacking on $60 mags that I know work 100% in the rifle I have them for...
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Thank you. I'll report back when it arrives and I have a chance to play with my collection of mags.
Link Posted: 12/12/2020 10:57:46 PM EST
I've got a bunch of the AC Unity mags coming from RTG parts.  The lack of reinforced feed lips doesn't excite me, as I bet they'd crack if dropped while loaded.  But for range mags I suspect they'll be fine.
Link Posted: 12/13/2020 9:49:50 AM EST
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Quoted:
Zastava is supposedly bringing the M90 rifle back but no word on if it will use rock in mags or the AR mag adapter. For whatever reason when they brought back the M85 it did not have the mag adapter.
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Oh I hope so!

I still kick myself for not picking up one of the M90 with the AR mag adapter

But, I would still like one even if it uses the AK style mags. I have found that 5.56 Galil mags work great in my Zastava M85 pistol, so hopefully this would be the same for the M90.
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 8:29:06 AM EST
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Quoted:
I've got a bunch of the AC Unity mags coming from RTG parts.  The lack of reinforced feed lips doesn't excite me, as I bet they'd crack if dropped while loaded.  But for range mags I suspect they'll be fine.
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They do if you drop them on a hard surface while loaded, but that is a common theme with all polymer mags that lack steel reinforced feed lips. That being said, they are excellent mags for the money and feed 100% reliably.
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 9:45:39 AM EST
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Quoted:



Oh I hope so!

I still kick myself for not picking up one of the M90 with the AR mag adapter

But, I would still like one even if it uses the AK style mags. I have found that 5.56 Galil mags work great in my Zastava M85 pistol, so hopefully this would be the same for the M90.
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Original IMI Galil 35 round mags will work in a Zastava M85 pistol? Unmodified? That would be a pleasant surprise. I have not gotten my Galil mags to work in anything except a Galil.
Link Posted: 12/15/2020 9:58:39 PM EST
I have a Saiga that has a welded in Canis adapter.  It works perfectly with Gen 2 P Mags.  Gen 3s require  minor fitting.

I broke down years ago and bought a bunch of Circle 10s.  I use those in my SLR107FR.
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 9:37:27 AM EST
Not dead just slowed. People are shifting back to 762x39 due to price at the moment but this won’t last long.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 2:34:52 PM EST
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Quoted:


They will take AR mags.

Thanks,

Josiah
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Good call Josiah. I'm still waiting too

If anything this 223 AK thread (just like all the others out there on the webs) come to the same conclusion that there is no 223 AK standard. They are all different just enough to limit options then it's compounded by cost or availability.

I bought my WASR3 with no mags already knowing this was an issue but it's what I wanted. Ordered a few different mags to try. The only thing that fit without modifications was promag and that wasn't going to be my answer, even though it is just a range toy.

Attachment Attached File


Runs 100% with pmags, lancer and all the aluminum AR mags I have no matter the mfg.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 3:05:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 5:54:14 PM EST
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Quoted:
https://i.imgur.com/rU81vGf.jpg

Zastava M90NP..... Love it.
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Nice!
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 7:18:47 PM EST
I’d love to have an AK in 5.56, preferably something set up like a 105.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 8:34:48 PM EST
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Quoted:
I’d love to have an AK in 5.56, preferably something set up like a 105.
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Sounds like finding a used Arsenal SLR-106CR might be in your future.
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 10:47:29 AM EST
Well my Zastava ZPAP85 has arrived. Bulgy Circle 10 mags dont fit unless I rock them in real hard then I have to hit the mag release with a 2X4 to get the mag out again. German Weiger mags are too tight also, dont fit. Galil mags fit very lose but they do seem to lock in and I will see if the gun functions with the mag flopping around. Galil plastic Orlite mags do not fit at all which is strange.

So I have a very cool AK with 1 mag.
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 11:10:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 5:38:40 PM EST
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Quoted:
Well my Zastava ZPAP85 has arrived. Bulgy Circle 10 mags dont fit unless I rock them in real hard then I have to hit the mag release with a 2X4 to get the mag out again. German Weiger mags are too tight also, dont fit. Galil mags fit very lose but they do seem to lock in and I will see if the gun functions with the mag flopping around. Galil plastic Orlite mags do not fit at all which is strange.

So I have a very cool AK with 1 mag.
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If I recall, I think the only "fitting" I did with the Circle 10 mags was to use a file to clean off any plastic off of the locking surfaces that was still there from molding over the metal reinforcements during manufacture.  Broke in super easy after that.  

I'd check out the AC Unity mags as well.  Inexpensive but reliable range mags.
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 6:08:03 PM EST
Never say dead.
Link Posted: 12/25/2020 11:26:27 AM EST
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Quoted:

If I recall, I think the only "fitting" I did with the Circle 10 mags was to use a file to clean off any plastic off of the locking surfaces that was still there from molding over the metal reinforcements during manufacture.  Broke in super easy after that.  

I'd check out the AC Unity mags as well.  Inexpensive but reliable range mags.
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Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I want to "sacrifice" my black Circle 10 mags or my German Weiger. I have 4 of each and they all work perfectly in my Romy...

I'm very reluctant to start grinding on somewhat rare/expensive mags.
Link Posted: 12/25/2020 1:44:27 PM EST
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Quoted:

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I want to "sacrifice" my black Circle 10 mags or my German Weiger. I have 4 of each and they all work perfectly in my Romy...

I'm very reluctant to start grinding on somewhat rare/expensive mags.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

If I recall, I think the only "fitting" I did with the Circle 10 mags was to use a file to clean off any plastic off of the locking surfaces that was still there from molding over the metal reinforcements during manufacture.  Broke in super easy after that.  

I'd check out the AC Unity mags as well.  Inexpensive but reliable range mags.

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I want to "sacrifice" my black Circle 10 mags or my German Weiger. I have 4 of each and they all work perfectly in my Romy...

I'm very reluctant to start grinding on somewhat rare/expensive mags.


Why not just buy some factory steel mags from Zastava USA?
Link Posted: 12/25/2020 7:52:13 PM EST
I did. I bought a couple from Zastava. $40 is not cheap but I only needed a few.

Link Posted: 12/25/2020 9:55:07 PM EST
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Quoted:
I did. I bought a couple from Zastava. $40 is not cheap but I only needed a few.

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I remember a few years back they blew out the steel mags at $9 a pop right after they introduced the Zastava AR mag versions.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 1:09:45 AM EST
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Quoted:

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I want to "sacrifice" my black Circle 10 mags or my German Weiger. I have 4 of each and they all work perfectly in my Romy...

I'm very reluctant to start grinding on somewhat rare/expensive mags.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

If I recall, I think the only "fitting" I did with the Circle 10 mags was to use a file to clean off any plastic off of the locking surfaces that was still there from molding over the metal reinforcements during manufacture.  Broke in super easy after that.  

I'd check out the AC Unity mags as well.  Inexpensive but reliable range mags.

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I want to "sacrifice" my black Circle 10 mags or my German Weiger. I have 4 of each and they all work perfectly in my Romy...

I'm very reluctant to start grinding on somewhat rare/expensive mags.

Don't blame you one bit.  It's the same reason I haven't messed with my Weiger mags for my Saiga conversion.  Just know that you definitely won't have to do any hacking.  Best way I can describe things is "cleaning up" the mags, not any significant modification of the mag and they all still fit TIGHT in my Arsenal 106 after.  I even think working the Circle 10 mags in and out is enough to "break-in" the mags.  They may be tighter than turtle pu$$y, but they worked perfectly.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 2:55:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 4:16:25 PM EST
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Quoted:

Don't blame you one bit.  It's the same reason I haven't messed with my Weiger mags for my Saiga conversion.  Just know that you definitely won't have to do any hacking.  Best way I can describe things is "cleaning up" the mags, not any significant modification of the mag and they all still fit TIGHT in my Arsenal 106 after.  I even think working the Circle 10 mags in and out is enough to "break-in" the mags.  They may be tighter than turtle pu$$y, but they worked perfectly.
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Weigers take about 5 minutes to fit to the Saiga. All you have to do is file down a bit in front of the feed lips so they will clear the locking lugs when rocking in. They are the most solid mag for the Saiga because once you mod them they are almost a precise fit.

Bought a bunch for $20/ea a couple years back when Gunmagwarehouse got a surplus shipment in. Hopefully if Cugir starts exporting WASR-3 again they will resume producing the Romanian Weiger clones.

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